Psychologists Dr. Jeffery Danziger; Dr. Alan Berns; Dr. William Weitz; Dr. Harry Kro

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At the 25 Feb 2011 status hearing, which occurred just 10 days after Dr. Krop's 3.5 hour examination of ICA, Michelle Medina served the following word salad:

http://www.wftv.com/video/26999580/index.html (@ 9:55)

MM: We have another motion with regards to a mental health expert and the mitigating factors in the penalty phase. This was a motion from attorney AF, who couldn't be here today. This is a request for approval of more costs. There needs to be more collateral interviews done with family as well as an evaluation and a couple of more visits that need to be made and were about to . . . .

JP: Is this with the confidential expert or is this with the mitigation specialist?

MM: No, the confidential expert, your Honour. And we're about to hit the $2500 cap. To avoid going over it we filed this motion.

JP: How many hours do you anticipate your expert needing?

MM: We requested another $4500.

JP: No, that doesn't answer my question. How many more additional hours, if you can tell me. I know you did not draft the motion. Ms. Finnell drafted the motion.

MM: I do not have that information with me because I know there would be travels involving visiting family members, immediate family members, as well as family members of the Anthony home and so I . . . I don't have that readily available but I can supplement that.

JP: I'm a little confused and maybe you can clear it up for me. I was under the impression that the confidential expert was gonna do an evaluation for purposes of determining whether or not there was mental mitigation or whether or not there were issues which are oftentime raised if someone is convicted in post-conviction relief that they may have suffered from some underlying mental illness that should have been brought to the jurors' attention: brain damage, some type of childhood trauma, or things of that nature, or to determine whether or not one may be competent or incompetent or suffer from various things. And what kind of threw me for a loop is when you start talking about family members. Most psychologists-slash-psychiatrists home in on the individual. It sounds like to me that you're utilizing this person as a second mitigation person when you've already had a mitigation [person].

i remember that. and when she started to give more...blah blah blah...he cut her off and said..."ya' know...i'm just gonna give it to you..." or words to that effect. that was when baez was late and i bet, i just bet is all, that he was hungover from his "unique" trip.
 
From Tony Pipitone's live chat tonight:
What if Caylee died by accident, she put the body in the trunk and then -- when liquids started leaking -- she attached duct tape to keep the liquid inside the body. Sorry to be gross, but be prepared for graphic stuff like that when we get to trial.

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/27689768/detail.html

And then threw her beloved child away like trash and figured she'd tell a kidnapping story...And all of KC's behavior in between those 31 days? Good luck selling a jury on that one. Oh yeah, I forgot, KC was soooo scared of GA and CA.

What of the 4th piece of tape? Were Caylee's hands leaking fluid as well?

Dr. G. was careful to say the tape was placed before decomposition, not before skeletonization, because the tape held the jaw in place. So Pipi is secondarily speculating that KC placed the tape (all the way around the head) to keep the jaw shut after the jaw muscles had relaxed and opened...

But, as steadychick posted back in 2009:
"I also worked in the medical field, and IMO, it doesn't make sense that the duct tape would have been applied to avoid the "icky stuff". Sorry if this offends, but after a few days the whole body is decomposing and the tissues are sloughing off easily when touched. I'm not sure tape on the mouth would have been of any benefit. This is one of the things that leads me to believe the tape was placed before death."

Ah well, there's a whole thread on that topic, but as to Pipi's assertion that it might have been an accident...not.gonna.fly.
 
I would love to have been a fly in the cell to see ICA's reactions to all of this evidence coming in....I bet she was frushtrated beyond belief and couldn't schwallow and her life depends on it...

Glorious day in Orange County Detention Center...I wonder if she will now look to change her plea...she is far from innocent even as she protests her innocence, the cards are stacked against her...JMHO

Justice for Caylee

What does she have left other then change her plea or get GA and SIN to
break out chains and the SUV and pull down the cell walls?:banghead:
 
Trying to sneak those extra claims past HHJP is like trying to sneak daybreak past a Rooster...

:great: LOVE IT.

You know if the DT is going with the mental incapacity route, they're gonna have to come out and say ICA KILLED CAYLEE MARIE ANTHONY.

No jury that I've known is gonna buy that - especially when we see her hanging on to Tony at the video store, peeing in the parking lot, the no-clothes party, the shopping at target, the gazillion and one text messages to her lover.

Does that sound like someone in distress to you!

MOO

Mel
 
Oh, to have been a fly on the wall when the DT found out the SA listed those doctors as witnesses! You cannot make this stuff up!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the DT say "we're not going to use these mental experts" - then the SA snatched them up?

OMG - this is too good to be true! What on earth will the defense say on cross!

:great:

Mel
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the DT say "we're not going to use these mental experts" - then the SA snatched them up?
OMG - this is too good to be true! What on earth will the defense say on cross!

:great:

Mel

BBM-Did they? :floorlaugh:
 
BBM-Did they? :floorlaugh:

Why yes, Just Jayla, I believe they did just that :)

State Adds 2 Psychiatrists To Casey Witness List
Defense Previously Dropped Same Psychiatrists

WESH 2 News legal analyst and retired circuit Judge O.H. Eaton said the state could use the same doctors' testimony against the defense.

"It makes sense to use them for rebuttal. If there's an effort to explain the 31 days, these witnesses may be able to rebut that testimony," Eaton said.

http://www.wesh.com/casey-anthony-extended-coverage/27689355/detail.html

In short, Chief Judge Belvin Perry challenged the defense on how they could present potentially hearsay testimony from the doctors to explain Anthony's behavior during the 31 days before Caylee was reported missing -- without putting Anthony herself on the stand.

Ohhh, this is gonna be good! That is, should the DT try to explain the 31 days. Then up pop the mental experts!

MOO

Mel
 
I meant to add this link to the earlier posts regarding Dr. Krop and parental alienation syndrome and the 25 Feb. 2011 status hearing that occurred after Dr. Krop's 3.5 hour visit to ICA.

http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/012905/met_17818755.shtml

Dr. Krop is still listed for the penalty phase, isn't he? Is it possible that AF and Krop could come up a parental alienation syndrome defense that centers on the theory of CA alienating Caylee from ICA or any combination therein?
 
IMO, as with everything else I have seen so far, I'm betting that what these doctors will testify to will just be another nail in KC's tightly closed coffin. I simply can't see the DT coming up with ANY mental type of defense that will fly. The SA has plenty of her friends to testify that they never saw anything "off" with KC. That she seemed to be a good mother. The only person who has stated she was a sociopath was her own mother, CA, who, at this point in time, has proven herself to be quite the accomplished liar. I mean, CA can't have it both ways. And neither can the defense team. They have spent the past three years talking about what an intelligent, caring, wrongly accused young woman KC is. For them to now come up and say she's off her rocker would be ridiculous. If I were betting on it, my money would be on the doctors stating that KC was well aware of what she had done and felt no remorse whatsoever for having done it, that she suffers from no mental illness at all, but is simply cold, calculating, and uncaring about anyone except herself. In other words, she's not crazy, she's just evil. MOO.
 
I wonder if anyone here can elaborate on what these docs could offer as far as sociopathic behavior. It is my understanding that sociopaths are very hard to diagnose properly, that they are difficult to study for obvious reasons.
There is a website out there written by someone who I ASSume is a sociopath, or very close to one, and the blogger goes into detail in regards to what he/she believes is a non-scientific listing of the traits....yes, I know, if the blogger is a sociopath, how can we believe them, right? Well, I believe from what we know, this info is pretty credible:

1. Sociopaths typically don't smalltalk about themselves as much as normal people do. They will direct the conversation back to the new acquaintance as much as they can. I noticed KC was very good at doing this with AH, it made her seem like a good girlfriend to have, always "listening" and concerned. Would this throw a doc off of her path?

2. A sociopath will reveal "personal" details about himself strategically, i.e. for the purposes of misdirection or a false sense of intimacy/trust. Revelations of actual truths are very rare and may be perceived as a small slip of the mask. My concern here is that if she did this with the docs, they might think she is delusional rather than a psychopath

3. Sociopaths frequently hesitate before responding. It will be unclear to you whether they are bored, annoyed, lying, or all three. Does KC do this? I thought she was pretty quick on the trigger

4. No strong reactions to illogical hotbed political/social topics (e.g. Octomom or Catholic priest child molestation). This is SO Casey to me. When Det. Wells mentioned something to her about NicoleG's murder, KC was not like "oh, poor girl," she brought it around to how CA was concerned it might happen to her if she jogged in JB Park. CA told LE she disliked the way that JG was opinionated, that they were pretty vanilla about strong convictions in the A household (my paraphrase)

5. Monotone voice (I am told). Uh, duh. Now I know the docs would pick up on this....Lt. Uncer sure did.

6. A tendency to take things too literally or otherwise not respond appropriately to small emotional cues. I would think this would be the docs' litmus test.

7. Cold indifference to one or more family members. Do I gotta write it?

8. Seemingly a different person when "distracted." Like with BrandonS, or when Caylee would squirm while KC was trying to tuck in with RM at night

9. Disconnect between what the sociopath says and does, e.g. seems charitable but does not give money to homeless or vice versa. She told Iassen that she gets called to jury duty every year, but the phone number never works....

10. Never shows signs of embarrassment. Easily wins over large crowds with confidence. "Poise" in this case = lack of nerves. Or nerves of steel, as I have heard, and she sure does have 'em. Again, I think the docs should be able to pic up on this

11. Does not fit stereotypes for gender, race, ethnicity, religion, age, sexual orientation, or career. Could seem foreign, bisexual, older or younger, pious, wealthy or poor, but may also just seem unplaceable.

12. Can flip flop between keeping a very low profile (the observer) to being the life of the party (the actor).

How could these doctors have made much of a Dx of sociopathy while KC was in jail, with nothing but conversation, and in a limited atmosphere? Anyone that is or is related to a psycholo/iatrist, please do ask and tell. If the state can get the doctors to advance any theory about KC, I hope they roll down this road.
 
I wonder if anyone here can elaborate on what these docs could offer as far as sociopathic behavior. It is my understanding that sociopaths are very hard to diagnose properly, that they are difficult to study for obvious reasons.
There is a website out there written by someone who I ASSume is a sociopath, or very close to one, and the blogger goes into detail in regards to what he/she believes is a non-scientific listing of the traits....yes, I know, if the blogger is a sociopath, how can we believe them, right? Well, I believe from what we know, this info is pretty credible:

1. Sociopaths typically don't smalltalk about themselves as much as normal people do. They will direct the conversation back to the new acquaintance as much as they can. I noticed KC was very good at doing this with AH, it made her seem like a good girlfriend to have, always "listening" and concerned. Would this throw a doc off of her path?

2. A sociopath will reveal "personal" details about himself strategically, i.e. for the purposes of misdirection or a false sense of intimacy/trust. Revelations of actual truths are very rare and may be perceived as a small slip of the mask. My concern here is that if she did this with the docs, they might think she is delusional rather than a psychopath

3. Sociopaths frequently hesitate before responding. It will be unclear to you whether they are bored, annoyed, lying, or all three. Does KC do this? I thought she was pretty quick on the trigger

4. No strong reactions to illogical hotbed political/social topics (e.g. Octomom or Catholic priest child molestation). This is SO Casey to me. When Det. Wells mentioned something to her about NicoleG's murder, KC was not like "oh, poor girl," she brought it around to how CA was concerned it might happen to her if she jogged in JB Park. CA told LE she disliked the way that JG was opinionated, that they were pretty vanilla about strong convictions in the A household (my paraphrase)

5. Monotone voice (I am told). Uh, duh. Now I know the docs would pick up on this....Lt. Uncer sure did.

6. A tendency to take things too literally or otherwise not respond appropriately to small emotional cues. I would think this would be the docs' litmus test.

7. Cold indifference to one or more family members. Do I gotta write it?

8. Seemingly a different person when "distracted." Like with BrandonS, or when Caylee would squirm while KC was trying to tuck in with RM at night

9. Disconnect between what the sociopath says and does, e.g. seems charitable but does not give money to homeless or vice versa. She told Iassen that she gets called to jury duty every year, but the phone number never works....

10. Never shows signs of embarrassment. Easily wins over large crowds with confidence. "Poise" in this case = lack of nerves. Or nerves of steel, as I have heard, and she sure does have 'em. Again, I think the docs should be able to pic up on this

11. Does not fit stereotypes for gender, race, ethnicity, religion, age, sexual orientation, or career. Could seem foreign, bisexual, older or younger, pious, wealthy or poor, but may also just seem unplaceable.

12. Can flip flop between keeping a very low profile (the observer) to being the life of the party (the actor).

How could these doctors have made much of a Dx of sociopathy while KC was in jail, with nothing but conversation, and in a limited atmosphere? Anyone that is or is related to a psycholo/iatrist, please do ask and tell. If the state can get the doctors to advance any theory about KC, I hope they roll down this road.

I'm guessing you're referring to Sam Vaknin of http://samvak.tripod.com/ Or Dr Sam Vaknin as he likes to refer to himself? Yes, the man is a diagnosed psychopath .. a liar and a fraud.. he says what he knows the people around him at the time want to hear. But you are right.. he's a perfect example of a psycopath.. his mind is an amazing place. Have you seen his documentary? http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/i-psychopath/
 
I meant to add this link to the earlier posts regarding Dr. Krop and parental alienation syndrome and the 25 Feb. 2011 status hearing that occurred after Dr. Krop's 3.5 hour visit to ICA.

http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/012905/met_17818755.shtml

Dr. Krop is still listed for the penalty phase, isn't he? Is it possible that AF and Krop could come up a parental alienation syndrome defense that centers on the theory of CA alienating Caylee from ICA or any combination therein?

Bold is mine-
That was my thought too after reading your link. Thanks for those links btw, very informative!
 
I'm guessing you're referring to Sam Vaknin of http://samvak.tripod.com/ Or Dr Sam Vaknin as he likes to refer to himself? Yes, the man is a diagnosed psychopath .. a liar and a fraud.. he says what he knows the people around him at the time want to hear. But you are right.. he's a perfect example of a psycopath.. his mind is an amazing place. Have you seen his documentary? http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/i-psychopath/

Dr. Sam, yes. 'I, Psychopath' is riveting.
 
From Tony Pipitone's live chat tonight:
What if Caylee died by accident, she put the body in the trunk and then -- when liquids started leaking -- she attached duct tape to keep the liquid inside the body. Sorry to be gross, but be prepared for graphic stuff like that when we get to trial.

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/27689768/detail.html

Nice try, Pippy, but please tell me how you get duct tape to stick to a surface with leaking liquids on it.
 
Nice try, Pippy, but please tell me how you get duct tape to stick to a surface with leaking liquids on it.

It doesn't. The tape just slips off because it doesn't adhere to liquid of any form. NOW - if the duct tape was wrapped around the skull, it may have stayed, but the front (where the drippings were) would be farther down - as in slippage (iykwim). Sorry to be gross.

Mel
 
What does she have left other then change her plea or get GA and SIN to
break out chains and the SUV and pull down the cell walls?:banghead:

I do not think changing her plea will help at all. She will either spend the rest of her life in prison or on death row. It would only avoid the trial.
I do not see her changing her plea, though. She is so sure everyone will see it her way if she can just explain it or get angry and "make them stop." "let me talk, nobody's letting me talk."
 
I wonder if anyone here can elaborate on what these docs could offer as far as sociopathic behavior. It is my understanding that sociopaths are very hard to diagnose properly, that they are difficult to study for obvious reasons.
There is a website out there written by someone who I ASSume is a sociopath, or very close to one, and the blogger goes into detail in regards to what he/she believes is a non-scientific listing of the traits....yes, I know, if the blogger is a sociopath, how can we believe them, right? Well, I believe from what we know, this info is pretty credible:

1. Sociopaths typically don't smalltalk about themselves as much as normal people do. They will direct the conversation back to the new acquaintance as much as they can. I noticed KC was very good at doing this with AH, it made her seem like a good girlfriend to have, always "listening" and concerned. Would this throw a doc off of her path?

2. A sociopath will reveal "personal" details about himself strategically, i.e. for the purposes of misdirection or a false sense of intimacy/trust. Revelations of actual truths are very rare and may be perceived as a small slip of the mask. My concern here is that if she did this with the docs, they might think she is delusional rather than a psychopath

3. Sociopaths frequently hesitate before responding. It will be unclear to you whether they are bored, annoyed, lying, or all three. Does KC do this? I thought she was pretty quick on the trigger

4. No strong reactions to illogical hotbed political/social topics (e.g. Octomom or Catholic priest child molestation). This is SO Casey to me. When Det. Wells mentioned something to her about NicoleG's murder, KC was not like "oh, poor girl," she brought it around to how CA was concerned it might happen to her if she jogged in JB Park. CA told LE she disliked the way that JG was opinionated, that they were pretty vanilla about strong convictions in the A household (my paraphrase)

5. Monotone voice (I am told). Uh, duh. Now I know the docs would pick up on this....Lt. Uncer sure did.

6. A tendency to take things too literally or otherwise not respond appropriately to small emotional cues. I would think this would be the docs' litmus test.

7. Cold indifference to one or more family members. Do I gotta write it?

8. Seemingly a different person when "distracted." Like with BrandonS, or when Caylee would squirm while KC was trying to tuck in with RM at night

9. Disconnect between what the sociopath says and does, e.g. seems charitable but does not give money to homeless or vice versa. She told Iassen that she gets called to jury duty every year, but the phone number never works....

10. Never shows signs of embarrassment. Easily wins over large crowds with confidence. "Poise" in this case = lack of nerves. Or nerves of steel, as I have heard, and she sure does have 'em. Again, I think the docs should be able to pic up on this

11. Does not fit stereotypes for gender, race, ethnicity, religion, age, sexual orientation, or career. Could seem foreign, bisexual, older or younger, pious, wealthy or poor, but may also just seem unplaceable.

12. Can flip flop between keeping a very low profile (the observer) to being the life of the party (the actor).

How could these doctors have made much of a Dx of sociopathy while KC was in jail, with nothing but conversation, and in a limited atmosphere? Anyone that is or is related to a psycholo/iatrist, please do ask and tell. If the state can get the doctors to advance any theory about KC, I hope they roll down this road.



There is no diagnosis of sociopathy. The diagnosis would be (IMO) antisocial personality disorder.
Please remember, a diagnosis explains behavior/thoughts, but does not excuse behavior/thoughts.

A diagnosis of mental retardation could allow a diminished capacity defense, but there would be few other diagnoses that would excuse her behavior/thoughts.
 
I'm guessing you're referring to Sam Vaknin of http://samvak.tripod.com/ Or Dr Sam Vaknin as he likes to refer to himself? Yes, the man is a diagnosed psychopath .. a liar and a fraud.. he says what he knows the people around him at the time want to hear. But you are right.. he's a perfect example of a psycopath.. his mind is an amazing place. Have you seen his documentary? http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/i-psychopath/

I am not sure who the blogger is, but that is not the website-Doesn't mean it isn't this guy, though. Unfortunately, I cannot post the blog site as that is a violation of TOS here per the mods.
 
There is no diagnosis of sociopathy. The diagnosis would be (IMO) antisocial personality disorder.
Please remember, a diagnosis explains behavior/thoughts, but does not excuse behavior/thoughts.

A diagnosis of mental retardation could allow a diminished capacity defense, but there would be few other diagnoses that would excuse her behavior/thoughts.

Thanks, got it-I did sort of paraphrase the Dx, but even with APD, I understood that it is very hard to work with and recognize.
I recall a very good episode of the Sopranos where Dr. Melfi was arguing with her peers that she could use talk therapy to "break" a sociopath. Her contemporaries mocked her and told her it would be impossible because that patient would lie their way through it. She was just getting to know this disorder...In a follow-up appointment with Tony Soprano, the sociopath in debate, he proves them right, she feels taken advantage of and she gets very ticked off, ending their Dr/patient relationship.
Just wondering if, with the limited time and "get to know ya" depth of the conversation these docs could have had with KC, whether it was possible for them to diagonose her with APD. I hope they could and did and the state can use it.
 

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