Psychologists Dr. Jeffery Danziger; Dr. Alan Berns; Dr. William Weitz; Dr. Harry Kro

[cuppy199]

I'm so sorry for your losses

Thanks! Hopefully Caylee will find the justice that both my family members did. My niece was just about Caylee age when she was taken from us. I think thats one of the reasons I feel so close to this case.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

I may need a lawyer here after I finish writing this.
Do you suppose Jose, B, will use the alleged PTSD as an excuse in his opening statement for ICA's behavior those 31 days?

What I need a legal boost with is this: In an opening statement doesn't whatever the attorney presents have to be part of the case, things he or she will bring in witnesses or evidence to prove? It can't just be the attorney's opinion of what did happen.
Calling all attorneys for help.

jmo

I don't think he really plans to address it. I think he was just running his mouth to the media, lying as usual. He has no actual strategy, it's just whatever works at the time and is most convenient. jmo

 

[MissJames]

When LE questioned Cindy if Casey had ever evaluated/received any treatment for mental condition/issue Cindy denied,denied,denied that Casey had ever needed any mental healthcare. BUT, a friend of Casey's told LE that Casey had told her that she felt like she was loosing it and was considering checking her self into a facility. However, when the friend brought this up again in a later conversation Casey claimed everything was much better now and never mentioned this issue again.

IMO, the only thing that would have affected Casey that much would have been the feeling of rejection from guy A, B or C. Why? The only situations that produced that form of emotional response (that any of the friends saw) was when she claimed to have miscarried some guys child and when Tony told Casey he might not come back from his trip in New York.

But, that's just MOO

Well, I believe the trauma started far back in ICA's childhood. Her bestest friends,the ones with the perky little noses and beady eyes,were placed in the Pet Cemetary just off of Suburban Dr.
Horrible thing for a young girl to deal with.Not only was she abandoned by the adults ,who simply wanted to place Micky in the trash,she was also left to arrange the burial ,with only her friend Kio Marie,for support.
Flash forward and the death of the Velveeta Bandit,suicidal squirrel was enough to throw ICA over the edge.One whiff of the flattened rodent was what did it. She completely forgot she ever gave birth to a daughter:banghead:
Now to explain why it took so many drs to uncover the truth......PTSD due to rodent death has only very recently (like last month) been recognized as a disorder ,tho not yet challenged in a court of law.

 

[Caligram]

Heck...they will stop at nothing to come up with a win. The doc who testifies could say he "knew" there was something wrong with ICA and he's been followig the blogs to understand her behavior. Now he "understands" and will violate the ethical code of the medical profession to "expain" away ICA's actions.
We know that ICa is a drama queen, and lies just for the he!! of it. I don't believe that she had to keep Caylee because CA insisted. ICA only intended to keep Caylee until she was no longer useful for freebies - rent, food, car, gas, and childcare. ICA portrayed her mother as domineering to her friends. But ICA always had the upper hand: "kick me out and Caylee goes with me". Caylee was a pawn between CA and ICA. Well, ICA proved she was a spiteful biotch, and she fixed CA for good, saying "Now the biotch knows what it feels like." and I don't believe those molestation stories. I don't believe CA's story about the pool ladder. I think CA did "advanced alibis" for ICA in case they could be used. This was her "punishment" for calling LE and making ICA go to jail.
Anyone who lies for ICA to give her any excuse for being a cold-blooded calculating child killer should develop a guilt complex that haunts them daily/nightly for the rest of their lives. How does one explain away evil. That is what ICA is, pure evil.

 

[MissJames]

True but they must have something to share that JB thinks applies to his client. Im sorry if Im a downer but I dont have much faith in the defense team and just when I think I have seen it all they go and trump it. I guess I have seen to many cases where money buys certain experts. Not saying all are that way but there are quite a few. I just cant see how they do it especially in a childs case. But like I said its probably just me. I have had two murders in my family makes me alittle bias I guess :banghead:

I'm so sorry . It makes you experienced,not biased.

 

[katydid23]

Exactly. Not buying it, not buying it.

One common symptom with PTSD is heightened startle response. I've yet to see ICA flinch or cower or exibit physical signs of PTSD.

I had symptoms of PTSD following an abusive relationship, many years ago (not diagnosed or treated). By many, I mean ummm over 30 years ago. Loud noise would drop me to my knees. Sudden movement and I would cower. Could not stand crowds, etc. I had a lovely BF, several years after the fact, and one night, as he reached out to put his arm around me, I screamed and ducked. He felt really awful. I felt really embarrassed and had to explain it to him. Ugh.

Now, over 30 years later, while I no longer feel I suffer from this, I still cannot tolerate loud noise and I still catch myself flinching with sudden movements from others.

I have yet to see ICA looking panicked, horrified, stricken and frozen with fear.

Nope, not buying it for a minute.

eta: To stay OT, I'm guessing the DT had to go through several psych experts before they found one who didn't know the actual, obvious, signs and symptoms of PTSD. Maybe experts like Logan, who read some stuff one time.

But I read that one of the main symptoms is intense 'nightmares.' And you know they will use Tony's testimony about Casey waking up in a cold sweat for that symptom.
And the PTSD from sexual xhild abuse is going to have different symptoms than from domestic violence. I am sure they are going to try and say that she went out dancing in slimpy clothes because she was 'acting out' because of the past abuse;/imo

 

[mamaneecy]

I have had PTSD for years. I had two very traumatizing experience's, The first with my sons violent suicide attempt, the latter my grandbaby being murdered. Believe me, there hasn't been any blocking going on here. Try years of sleepless nights, panic attacks, not leaving home for home for fear something else bad will happen, panic attacks at helicopters and ambulance sounds. Then there is the nightmare of reality movie played behind my eyelids at night. Partying, laughing, making plans for anything in the future? Yeah right! In my and my family members experience (yeah a few of us have PTSD), We have prayed and begged God for enough peace just to be able to sleep for a small while. To be able to make it to another day. Then another. I know others with PTSD and we all have troubles having to do with not being able to put trauma out of our minds. Blocking it out seems totally impossible with this disorder IMO.

 

[MissJames]

I still think they are going to throw George into the mix here. I think they are going to show clips of 'evil' Dad losing his temper [ at the protesters, at the depositions, pushing his own dad thru a plate glass window] and try and say that Casey was so petrified that she suffered from PTSD, especially because she was also a victim of childhood sexual abuse. ...*cough...cough..*

Then they will imply that Casey threatened to tell Cindy or the police about her father's abuse, so he took the baby in response... ??

Won't the State most likely object to testimony or pics about the protesters as not relevent? I don't see how the defense can bring them in.

 

[MissJames]

I have had PTSD for years. I had two very traumatizing experience's, The first with my sons violent suicide attempt, the latter my grandbaby being murdered. Believe me, there hasn't been any blocking going on here. Try years of sleepless nights, panic attacks, not leaving home for home for fear something else bad will happen, panic attacks at helicopters and ambulance sounds. Then there is the nightmare of reality movie played behind my eyelids at night. Partying, laughing, making plans for anything in the future? Yeah right! In my and my family members experience (yeah a few of us have PTSD), We have prayed and begged God for enough peace just to be able to sleep for a small while. To be able to make it to another day. Then another. I know others with PTSD and we all have troubles having to do with not being able to put trauma out of our minds. Blocking it out seems totally impossible with this disorder IMO.

Mamaneecy,
There are no words :rose: :hug: uddle:

 

[MissJames]

But I read that one of the main symptoms is intense 'nightmares.' And you know they will use Tony's testimony about Casey waking up in a cold sweat for that symptom.
And the PTSD from sexual xhild abuse is going to have different symptoms than from domestic violence. I am sure they are going to try and say that she went out dancing in slimpy clothes because she was 'acting out' because of the past abuse;/imo

I think the State will also be able to use waking up in a cold sweat as a symptom of horror after you killed your baby, and fear that you will be caught.
ICA was flying by the seat of her pants.She must have realized it would catch up with her sooner or later.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Well, I believe the trauma started far back in ICA's childhood. Her bestest friends,the ones with the perky little noses and beady eyes,were placed in the Pet Cemetary just off of Suburban Dr.
Horrible thing for a young girl to deal with.Not only was she abandoned by the adults ,who simply wanted to place Micky in the trash,she was also left to arrange the burial ,with only her friend Kio Marie,for support.
Flash forward and the death of the Velveeta Bandit,suicidal squirrel was enough to throw ICA over the edge.One whiff of the flattened rodent was what did it. She completely forgot she ever gave birth to a daughter:banghead:
Now to explain why it took so many drs to uncover the truth......PTSD due to rodent death has only very recently (like last month) been recognized as a disorder ,tho not yet challenged in a court of law.

:great:

 

[OneLostGrl]

I have had PTSD for years. I had two very traumatizing experience's, The first with my sons violent suicide attempt, the latter my grandbaby being murdered. Believe me, there hasn't been any blocking going on here. Try years of sleepless nights, panic attacks, not leaving home for home for fear something else bad will happen, panic attacks at helicopters and ambulance sounds. Then there is the nightmare of reality movie played behind my eyelids at night. Partying, laughing, making plans for anything in the future? Yeah right! In my and my family members experience (yeah a few of us have PTSD), We have prayed and begged God for enough peace just to be able to sleep for a small while. To be able to make it to another day. Then another. I know others with PTSD and we all have troubles having to do with not being able to put trauma out of our minds. Blocking it out seems totally impossible with this disorder IMO.

:hug:

 

[denjet]

That makes it sound like they were not going to go with this theory if her statements/her families statements/the Universal interview had not been allowed to come in. :waitasec:

Bingo! And now the defense is scrambling ... I would say given the parade of shrinks visiting KC since July 2010 alone will give the judge all he needs to deny these two doctors ... the defense has known for a long time that their client behaved inappropriately and, yes, guilty since the get go and now they're trying to come up with a defense for it ??

I agree the only reason to add them at this late date is because they've been unsuccessful in keeping all of the bad stuff about KC out of the trial ...

IMO, Judge Perry needs to deny this! And anyway, since when is "consciousness of guilt" a disorder or excuse for murder ?
They CAN'T explain away the 31 days, period ! :maddening:

PS ... THANK YOU THINKTANK for all of your work compiling this list ... it's much needed to keep all of these doctors straight ... :rocker:

 

[mydailyopinions]

It's a shame it takes that many doctors to come up with an "excuse" for Casey.

 

[RR0004]

BBM :floorlaugh::floorlaugh: that's so funny. I would say the whole fam damily is nuckin futs.

...and I do believe if any true experts got a whack at 'em they would concur.

 

[LolaMoon08]

This is my problem and the problem with the defense using PTSD as some kind of explanation for Casey's behavior.

They can not just allude to an accident and expect for a jury to believe this. They are going to have to out-right admit that Caylee died accidentally while in the care of Casey. The problem is... Casey will never admit to having any part in Caylee's death... accidental or purposely. Cindy and George for years have stated that there was no accident. That Casey would have admitted to an accident. I know this came up in Cindy's deposition. There is no way that Cindy and George are going to get on that stand and admit to a jury that Casey is in any way responsible for Caylee's death... again, accidental or purposely. I don't even think they have it in them to even allude to an accident? That would mean that they have at least "thought" that Casey was responsible for Caylee's death. That's just not going to happen.

The fact that Casey was fully capable of expressing her contempt and animosity that "all anyone cared about was Caylee", imo, shows that she was not at all removed from this alleged "trauma." If she could show contempt and animosity when anyone would even say Caylee's name... she, imo, was fully capable of showing fear and sadness if her child really did die accidentally... which she has never done.

The other problem I have is the fact that I think the defense stradegy is going to be simply allude to any and everything. Try to say it "could have" been an accident. That it "could have" been George. That it "could have" been Roy Kronk. That it "Could have" been Jesse Grund. Are these doctors going to explain to a jury exactly how Casey suffers from PTSD from all these scenarios? The defense will have to explain why Casey feared them enough to lie about this (when she could have told the truth and that other person would be arrested) and show a connection between Casey and that person (Roy Kronk and Casey have no connection?).

Like I said... I'm really interested to see where the defense is going with all this. I really need to see this for myself because I do not think that an accident is on the top of their list?

 

[RR0004]

So...forgive my ignorance...but does all of this mean we will never see the eval. that was sealed...never hear mention of it or any part of it even though it was ordered by the State...BECAUSE the guy who did it is "owned" by the Defense?
Ok...sure I'll believe anything they say.

 

[shivs]

I have had PTSD for years. I had two very traumatizing experience's, The first with my sons violent suicide attempt, the latter my grandbaby being murdered. Believe me, there hasn't been any blocking going on here. Try years of sleepless nights, panic attacks, not leaving home for home for fear something else bad will happen, panic attacks at helicopters and ambulance sounds. Then there is the nightmare of reality movie played behind my eyelids at night. Partying, laughing, making plans for anything in the future? Yeah right! In my and my family members experience (yeah a few of us have PTSD), We have prayed and begged God for enough peace just to be able to sleep for a small while. To be able to make it to another day. Then another. I know others with PTSD and we all have troubles having to do with not being able to put trauma out of our minds. Blocking it out seems totally impossible with this disorder IMO.

I am so sorry for the loss of your grandbaby. I can relate to much of your post from trauma in my life. It kinda feels like a slap in the face when PTSD is being thrown around so loosely, huh?

 

[Caligram]

I always wondered about that scenario Tony testified to, where he said he woke in the middle of the night and ICA was looking at the video of Caylee on Father's Day, and he thought she was sobbing. That is what I recall. What if she wasn't sobbing. Wouldn't it be more logical that she was chuckling, gloating about having eliminated the little "snothead".
ICA doesn’t demonstrate any regrets regarding Caylee. On the other hand, she appears to be smugly satisfied that she had the last word in her final fight with CA. ICA took away CA’s sunshine, forever. ICA struts into the courtroom, knowing that the camera is on her.
Possible scenario: The jury, carefully observing ICA for the first time as she struts happily into the courtroom, might find it hard to believe that this young nice-looking woman with her hair down to her butt is anything but an innocent college student. But, no buts about it, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, this here is the main attraction of the circus, folks. This living-breathing human you see before you is a cold-blooded unremorseful killer. Her beautiful daughter Caylee is no longer living and breathing. Her mother intentionally placed duct tape over helpless little Caylee's nose and mouth, intentionally stuck her in trash bags and intentionally disposed of her like garbage. Intent is the key word.

 

[miss plum]

A diagnosis of Partying Tattoos Stealing Disorder still wouldn't excuse carrying out and/or concealing a coldblooded murder.