Rebecca Zahau Wrongful death trial begins. Trial coverage and discussion #4

[stmarysmead]

When the Zahau family launched this case, they and their attorneys knew full well that every aspect of RZ history would come into the case. AS family knew the same scruntiny would apply to them. I’m sure both sides prepared for this.

What has been counterproductive to getting at the truth, is the attempt to,shame anyone who discusses any now documented troubled part of RZ’s past. Was it “dirty” to bring up DR’s volatile marriage to JS? No, you say, because we believe this is murder.

In fairness, those of us who believe this is suicide, have the same right to discuss RZ past...the way she chose to live her life...before moving in with the last rich boyfriend.

 

[Pi2016]

Catching up after being out of town for a few days and just saw this:

Finally, the judge decided to not give the jury the option to separate the two questions.

This is unfortunate imo. I believe Rebecca was murdered. I do not see a shred of evidence that the killer was Adam. If I was on this jury I would have to vote Not Guilty...... or not liable- however it goes in civil cases.

My heart breaks for the Zahau family. Sadly I don't think they will ever see justice in this case.

Thanks to all the fantastic posters here who have been such a great source of info.

 

[Betty P]

When the Zahau family launched this case, they and their attorneys knew full well that every aspect of RZ history would come into the case. AS family knew the same scruntiny would apply to them. I’m sure both sides prepared for this.

What has been counterproductive to getting at the truth, is the attempt to,shame anyone who discusses any now documented troubled part of RZ’s past. Was it “dirty” to bring up DR’s volatile marriage to JS? No, you say, because we believe this is murder.

In fairness, those of us who believe this is suicide, have the same right to discuss RZ past...the way she chose to live her life...before moving in with the last rich boyfriend.

Even the defense has abandoned any pretext of claiming this was suicide. That's why they objected to allowing the jury to vote on a split verdict. They know that the jury believes this was murder. The evidence is too strong:

The presence of Rebecca's fingerprints on the blade of the chef's knife indicating she used it to try to cut her rope bindings

Evidence that she was raped with the handle of the steak knife

Autopsy evidence that shows she was strangled twice: once manually and a second time from the hanging

Evidence that someone cleaned up the crime scene, wiping away fingerprints and blood?

The defense is working furiously at the last minute in an attempt to suppress Rebecca's autopsy report from jury deliberations. Why would they do that? Why would they want to hide what's in an autopsy report - the most common kind of evidence used in a murder trial?

 

[stmarysmead]

Even the defense has abandoned any pretext of claiming this was suicide. That's why they objected to allowing the jury to vote on a split verdict. They know that the jury believes this was murder. The evidence is too strong:

The presence of Rebecca's fingerprints on the blade of the chef's knife indicating she used it to try to cut her rope bindings

Evidence that she was raped with the handle of the steak knife

Autopsy evidence that shows she was strangled twice: once manually and a second time from the hanging

Evidence that someone cleaned up the crime scene, wiping away fingerprints and blood?

The defense is working furiously at the last minute in an attempt to suppress Rebecca's autopsy report from jury deliberations. Why would they do that? Why would they want to hide what's in an autopsy report - the most common kind of evidence used in a murder trial?

Do you have a link to the Defense requesting a split verdict. I watched another Rother podcast on the channel she works for, and she stated thevplaintiffs wanted this. I’d like to see verification either way because it is interesting. But I’ve seen nothing to indicate to date that the Defense is conceding murder. I’m guessing we will find out in the closing arguments...so we have t long to wait.

 

[Brit]

A torture murder as described with alleged “hogtying”, knife rape...indicates a stomach for cruelty and observing others pain that has not been found in AS past. No episodes of rage or anger issues have come up in testimony. So this man, once removed from this tragedy, commits his first crime in such a fiendish manner with absolutely no prior indication?

Then there is no evidence of him at the scene? And the years long scenario of how this happened...implicating DR and NR...believed like gospel here and elsewhere, has to be retracted and reduced just to him?

Couldn’t the belief in THIS scenario be just as flawed.

All reasons for doubt.

Rebecca’s history prior to JS is unequivocally troubled. She could have left her husband. As is often stated here, she had a good job and supportive family. But instead she went from man to man...running back to the Ex when she needed rescuing. His testimony that these rescues often required leaving the city they were living in. That is not the history of an emotionally healthy woman who was emotionally capable or adept at handling her problems.

What was RZ looking for in these affairs? Her Ex Husbamd testified according to Tricia’s podcast that money was important to her because of her impoverished childhood. The SD Podcast “Under The Gavel” alludes to a message in her diary “No amount of money is worth this.”...referring to her emotional pain.

This testimony was all before the jury and worthy to note to the many WS readers who come here to follow cases.

In none of these prior instances, did RZ go home to family or just become independent. She instead ran back to a man she accused of being abusive. But serial adultery in a marriage is abusive too.

I think RZ was a complicated person as humans can be. A loving daughter, kind to many, but deeply troubled and emotionally fragile. These men with money were not bringing her happiness.

Masturbating to Asian bondage *advertiser censored* and Asian rape *advertiser censored* indicates a “stomach for cruelty and observing others pain” I’m my opinion.

You said
“She could have left her husband. As is often stated here, she had a good job and supportive family. But instead she went from man to man...running back to the Ex when she needed rescuing. His testimony that these rescues often required leaving the city they were living in.”

This is a misrepresentation of what the actual testimony was. If this is what you were saying that NN said this in deposition I would like to see proof, A LINK. you keep mentioning under the gavel podcast in reference to this subject. I have listened to this same podcast and they never said that NN testified that RZ went from “man to man” and ran back to NN “to be rescued”. In his deposition he said that there were some affairs but that they tried several times to work things out but it never seemed to work. In reality none of us knows how many affairs there were we only know about JS and the ex boyfriend that also had a depo. To twist words and turn them into a more dramatic tail is damaging to RZ reputation and damaging to the reputation of this site. I would like to see LINKS to prove these statements. Thanks in advance.

 

[Betty P]

Do you have a link to the Defense requesting a split verdict. I watched another Rother podcast on the channel she works for, and she stated thevplaintiffs wanted this. I’d like to see verification either way because it is interesting. But I’ve seen nothing to indicate to date that the Defense is conceding murder. I’m guessing we will find out in the closing arguments...so we have t long to wait.

As I noted in my comment above, the defense objected to allowing the jury to vote on a split verdict. JMO, the result may not be what they intended.

 

[Betty P]

Masturbating to Asian bondage *advertiser censored* and Asian rape *advertiser censored* indicates a “stomach for cruelty and observing others pain” I’m my opinion.

You said
“She could have left her husband. As is often stated here, she had a good job and supportive family. But instead she went from man to man...running back to the Ex when she needed rescuing. His testimony that these rescues often required leaving the city they were living in.”

This is a misrepresentation of what the actual testimony was. If this is what you were saying that NN said this in deposition I would like to see proof, A LINK. you keep mentioning under the gavel podcast in reference to this subject. I have listened to this same podcast and they never said that NN testified that RZ went from “man to man” and ran back to NN “to be rescued”. In his deposition he said that there were some affairs but that they tried several times to work things out but it never seemed to work. In reality none of us knows how many affairs there were we only know about JS and the ex boyfriend that also had a depo. To twist words and turn them into a more dramatic tail is damaging to RZ reputation and damaging to the reputation of this site. I would like to see LINKS to prove these statements. Thanks in advance.

Agree, these are false and inflammatory statements, with no basis in fact. It reminds me of rapists and their defense attorneys who claim that rape victims were "asking for it" because they are attractive and wear sexy clothing.

 

[Betty P]

Discussing court testimony does not mean I have any negative motives. RZ created her own history. That history is part of the court case and part of the discussion as to suicide or murder.

Did RZ “demonize” herself with her behaviors? I wasnt part of her serial adulteries. And therefore if it demonizes her, it’s not my fault.

It’s just testimony in the case THAT THE JURY HEARD that is seldom discussed here.

RZ had a normal history, no different from most women in the US. It's wrong to continue making false allegations and posting unsubstantiated rumors about her. WS is a victim friendly forum.

If you can't substantiate your allegations, you need to stop posting them.

 

[stmarysmead]

The reasons my comments about her serial adultery stand is because they are a matter of record in the court testimony. I refer you to Tricia’s podcast with Caitlin Rother. Tricia permitted Caitlin to report this testimony and did not edit it out.

I don’t believe most women cheat over and over on the same husband and continually return to him. I don’t believe most couples are forced to move several times because the wife wants to flee her lovers.

This matters because it goes to RZ emotional stability. It should upset no one because both the family and lawyers were absolutely prepared.

If your team gets to the Super Bowl and everything is on the line, you may think the other team is made up of cheaters who played too easy a schedule. You may feel your team is the ONLY one deserving of a win. But you CANNOT demand that the refs exempt your team p...because of your ardent beliefs...from any penalties in the game. That’s not how the game is played.

Not in the Super Bowl, the courtroom, or thankfully, on Websleuths.

 

[Brit]

The reasons my comments about her serial adultery stand is because they are a matter of record in the court testimony. I refer you to Tricia’s podcast with Caitlin Rother. Tricia permitted Caitlin to report this testimony and did not edit it out.

I don’t believe most women cheat over and over on the same husband and continually return to him. I don’t believe most couples are forced to move several times because the wife wants to flee her lovers.

This matters because it goes to RZ emotional stability. It should upset no one because both the family and lawyers were absolutely prepared.

If your team gets to the Super Bowl and everything is on the line, you may think the other team is made up of cheaters who played too easy a schedule. You may feel your team is the ONLY one deserving of a win. But you CANNOT demand that the refs exempt your team p...because of your ardent beliefs...from any penalties in the game. That’s not how the game is played.

Not in the Super Bowl, the courtroom, or thankfully, on Websleuths.

A link for “serial cheater” being in testimony in court please. TIA!

 

[stmarysmead]

A link for “serial cheater” being in testimony in court please. TIA!

Yes, It’s in Tricia’s podcast with Caitlin Rother. Sworn testimony from her Ex husband. Also testimony from another millionaire lover.

 

[Brit]

Yes, It’s in Tricia’s podcast with Caitlin Rother. Sworn testimony from her Ex husband. Also testimony from another millionaire lover.

Link proving that NN testifies that RZ was a “serial cheater”. In those exact words.

There is a difference between saying someone had a few affairs, which I believe was what testimony was and saying that she was a “serial cheater”.

So I ask again, link please.

 

[Betty P]

Link proving that NN testifies that RZ was a “serial cheater”. In those exact words.

There is a difference between saying someone had a few affairs, which I believe was what testimony was and saying that she was a “serial cheater”.

So I ask again, link please.

In addition, having an affair in her past is not a justification for allowing Adam to get away with murder. We aren't living in ancient times when women were stoned to death in the public square.

If you kill someone, you deserve to be held legally and publicly accountable, regardless of how much money your family has or how angry they are.

It speaks poorly of the defendants when they refuse to argue facts and evidence of Rebecca's death and instead resort to ad hom attacks on her character.

 

[Tortoise]

Discussion of sworn testimony given in a court of law is not “dirty.” The question of “murder” is unresolved and frankly, will not totally be resolved by even this jury.

I respect your opinion. But RZ’s history in all respects, tarnished and admirable...is a pertinent and valid issue in the legal case. The effort to silence any of the more tawdry aspects of her past, frankly, deter from the logic of other arguments...because they imply a foundation of bias in her favor...not a logical look at all parts of the case.

I’m sure Mr Greer is aware of this pothole...to SO completely deify or demonize really undercuts credibility.

On the contrary, every suicide post (combined with prediction of a defense appeal) is a measure of Atty Greer's success, IMO. The defense even withdrew the Medical Examiner, it doesn't get clearer.

I won't engage in a back and forth about it because firstly it's boring and secondly I want to be here for the result, but every time I see a suicide post that deflects from Adam's culpability, (IMO) I shall be reminded to thank and applaud Atty Greer.

 

[kittychi]

Well said.

Another thing on the so-called motive. I just don’t think Rebecca was anybody’s focus at that time. Not to hate, love or even care about. Every thought, prayer, anxiety, was toward Maxie.

Rebecca was a bit player in the background in everybody’s mind. She only mattered because she was there when that little boy was gravely injured. All eyes and hearts were on HIM...not RZ...not her needs and emotions.

The only attention she was getting was probative questions ...investigators called...NR wanting to talk to her.

For a woman who always cut and run before...she couldn’t cut and run from the investigation into Max’s death. Maybe she feared the kind of relentless scrutiny...did she push him, did she smother him,,.did she even try to give COR...did she stage the scene?

Maybe she would have been treated on some Internet board as Adam has been. *advertiser censored*, witchcraft, serial adulteress, thief. Every negative thing in her life laid out in public like has been done to Adam. Speculation and rumor and gossip added to prop up theories.

She was an unstable woman...by her own written words...feeling like she never had before. AS has no history as emotionally unstable as RZ. Of the two people in the house that night, all available evidence would be that he was the most emotionally stable of the two.

BBM1: I am an unstable woman too if you look at my journals, diaries and streams of consciousness writing. This would be true of everyone. We all have a shadow. Journaling is a mental health TOOL to root out the junk in your unconsciousness so you can get clarity on things.

BBM2: We don't have any diaries or journals from Adam.

IMO it is not even vaguely reasonable to judge a person's mental stability by their private writings meant only for themselves.

If anything, Rebecca's writing shows that she actively worked on her own mental health.

 

[Harmony 2]

The statement below is a portion of Websleuths’ victim friendly rule.

Discussing victim behavior, good or bad is fine, but do so in a civil and constructive way, and only when such behavior is relevant to the case.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?65798-Etiquette-amp-Information

Discussing facts and information brought up by either side- plaintiff and defendant- in the civil trial is allowed. Interpretations of those facts, testified to in a court of law, is also allowed. The judge deemed it relevant for the information to be brought forth for the jury to hear in court. Therefore, it is relevant to the discussion here. This is a crime discussion forum. We are here to discuss both sides of the civil trial.

Attempts to shut down one side of the equation is not allowed.

 

[Pi2016]

Yes, It’s in Tricia’s podcast with Caitlin Rother. Sworn testimony from her Ex husband. Also testimony from another millionaire lover.

Let's say Rebecca was a "serial cheater", since when does that equal suicidal?

Cheating doesn't mean somebody is unstable, it means they want to experience another person. Literally millions and millions of people are "serial cheaters" including the sitting president.

The defense did absolutely nothing in this trial to show Rebecca was suicidal, or that she had ever been suicidal. Nor did they show that she ever exhibited any kind of bizarre behavior that even comes close to naked, bound and gagging herself.

I get the impression you think Rebecca felt rejected by Jonah and got so depressed about it that she killed herself. Is that it?

You also seem to imply Rebecca was fearing an investigation into Max's death. Why would she? She was not responsible for a freak accident. The autopsy that was eventually done on Max revealed why he went into cardiac arrest. So even if there were early suspicions they were resolved. Rebecca however knew the truth of that day. So why would she fear an investigation?

 

[kittychi]

Your last sentence is key...”Rebecca’s death is the subject of this lawsuit.” This debate is between suicide and murder. Discussing why a young woman would kill herself requires looking at her history, her emotional state, her secrets and her mistakes. Part of Rebecca’s very recent history was the grave injury of her boyfriend’s child while on her watch.

It is being discussed as a reason for her murder. It is absolutely pertinent as a possible reason for her suicide...if only that she would have to be questioned throughly about the statements she made and how the child was injured.

The reason the attorneys have brought up RZ troubling history of extramarital affairs...to the extent that she and her husband were forced to move several times...is because her emotional history is directly pertinent to whether she might have been at risk for suicide.

It would be a strangulation of our justice system to say that Maxie’s death could only be used as a motive for murder and not a motive for suicide...and Rebecca’s choices and history could not be part of the trial but every innuendo about Adam was fine.

Therefore they are part of our conversation here. Every aspect of Rebecca’s life and Adam’s are essential keys...to the truth of this tragedy.

Sorry, to me this just sounds like vilifying a dead woman by exploiting a little boy's death. Just IMO, of course.

 

[Betty P]

Catching up after being out of town for a few days and just saw this:



This is unfortunate imo. I believe Rebecca was murdered. I do not see a shred of evidence that the killer was Adam. If I was on this jury I would have to vote Not Guilty...... or not liable- however it goes in civil cases.

My heart breaks for the Zahau family. Sadly I don't think they will ever see justice in this case.

Thanks to all the fantastic posters here who have been such a great source of info.

Respectfully, I disagree. For so many years, many focused on Jonah's ex wife and sister (who did behave suspiciously) as the killers of Rebecca. JMO, many lost focus on many facts of the case that indicated the murderer was someone who was strong, taller than Rebecca and who had extensive experience in tying nautical knots and lashings.

I think part of that came from the early, unsubstantiated assertions that Adam had taken Ambien that night and slept through the whole thing. I never believed that and found it odd that the excuse was offered. I also found it significant that:

police zeroed in on Adam very early in the investigation

Adam was given a polygraph exam, one that lasted quite a long time

Adam was the last person to see RZ alive and the only person known to have access to the mansion

The cryptic message was painted higher than an average sized woman would have been able to paint it legibly

The odd remarks Adam made about his "bedside manner" and masturbating to *advertiser censored* before rescuing Rebecca

The 911 call which was filled with so many conflicting and suspicious statements

The scene and actions of Adam at the time he "discovered" RZ's body and attempted rescue

The urgency with which Paul Pfingst, retained by JS, got through to LE in order to convince Adam to refuse the poly exam

etc, etc.

The evidence and suspicious activity of Adam were there all along. The knots and lashings pinged my radar early on. There were many discussions here about the table with the broken leg, questioning how it could have handled the weight of both Adam and RZ as he cut her down. Many pages of discussion about the 911 call. But in order to accept Adam as the prime suspect, you had to reject the messaging that he had taken Ambien the night before and suspect something was up when he wasn't tested for presence of any drugs, alcohol, etc. in his system to verify his claim.

Perhaps the high profile and inflammatory actions of Jonah's ex wife after the murder were more of a distraction that put the focus on her. She did herself no favors in venting publicly her jealousy and misplaced anger towards Rebecca. I've always tried to keep an open mind on this case and will continue to do so. The new evidence and details revealed as a result of the WDS really point to Adam. There may have been others involved at some point, or at least had knowledge, but those may be dealt with at a future date.

 

[Betty P]

The statement below is a portion of Websleuths’ victim friendly rule.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?65798-Etiquette-amp-Information

Discussing facts and information brought up by either side- plaintiff and defendant- in the civil trial is allowed. Interpretations of those facts, testified to in a court of law, is also allowed. The judge deemed it relevant for the information to be brought forth for the jury to hear in court. Therefore, it is relevant to the discussion here. This is a crime discussion forum. We are here to discuss both sides of the civil trial.

Attempts to shut down one side of the equation is not allowed.

Thanks for your reply and for all your hard work moderating this forum! It's a tough job.

I don't think anyone here has an objection to someone bringing up information from the civil trial. We just want to make sure it's accurately sourced and not mixed in with rumor.

Thanks again and Happy Easter!

:spring: