Retrial for Sentencing of Jodi Arias - 1/29 thru 2/2 - Break

[Sulamith]

This is sort of OT but i know we have Mormons on here. Since only friends and family with TRs can witness the celestial union in temple is it usually followed up with a small "civilian" ceremony for ALL friends and family to be apart of

Not always. Some Bishops do not allow a " Ring Ceremony" as they call it. No rings are exchanged at a Mormon temple marriage/sealing. No flower girls, bridesmaids, flowers.

The new temple recommends have a barcode on them. This is to prevent any unworthy person to enter the temple. For example, if a member does not pass the worthiness interview with his/her bishop but does not hand over the temple recommend at the time of the interview, the bishop can "deactivate" the recommend so if the member tries to enter the temple when he/she should not be the temple workers would find out by scanning the recommend.

Here are the questions that would be asked of a member requesting a recommend:

http://lds4u.com/lesson5/templequestions.htm

The only way a member could cheat would be to lie to his/her bishop or stake president during the temple interview. MOO

 

[RickshawFan]

I've seen multiple posters say that Juan has convinced them that Jodi and Travis were never officially dating ("boyfriend/girlfriend"). I was totally part of this school of thought until this afternoon.
I was listening to the original trial while doing chores, and the day of the sex tape starting playing. :shame: Before I could fast forward through it, I heard an exchange that gave me pause.

JA and TA are having a conversation about Abe and how TA did not care for him. The relevant exchange goes like this:

Jodi: "He's like [referring to Abe] . . . 'I don't understand, ya know. I see him in the bathroom, and I'm a ghost to him. He looks right through me . . .'"

(side conversation)

Travis: "He's a ghost to me because what am I supposed to say? You kissed my girlfriend."

Jodi: "That was before I was your girlfriend."

Like many (ok, ALL) of you, I know JA is beyond capable of fabricating a relationship. But after hearing Travis call JA his girlfriend and hearing JA refer to herself as his girlfriend (at least at one point in time) without Travis refuting it, now I'm not so sure. Thoughts?

*To hear the portion of the trial to which I am referring, skip to 8:16

[video=youtube;3uZTXKLqoXE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uZTXKLqoXE"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uZTXKLqoXE[/video]

Was it, "You kissed my girlfriend." or "You kissed my girlfriend?" The latter would suggest JA was not his girlfriend: "You kissed my girlfriend?" [because you're not] And recall this whole thing about Abe was one big manipulation. I don't know that TA was refuting a whole lot of anything in that tape.

 

[Spycraft]

What a great moment it would have been if after Willmott sarcastically said/accused/insinuated that surely Deanna’s passport/immigration papers would prove she hadn’t made a mid-mission return from Costa Rica, if Deanna could have whipped out her passport while saying, “Yes, it shows my one return date clearly here on my passport.” Would have loved to hear the comeback Willmott would have tried, unsuccessfully, to make after the proof was offered in court!

Great points. But also more recently with DR, why in hell would she ask if her immigration papers would support DR's claim that she didn't come back to the USA during her mission? When DR answers "Yes" to that question, it just gives DR's story more credibility.

 

[Wing Ding]

Travis: "He's a ghost to me because what am I supposed to say? You kissed my girlfriend."

Jodi: "That was before I was your girlfriend."

Well knock me over with a feather. It does seem that they both do acknowledge each other as bf/gf. Even if only once.

Thanks for posting this.

 

[BritsKate]

BBM Would have—we know she did just that. To a very creepy degree. Before she killed him she practically copied his blog.

I'd forgotten about that! If memory serves, their myspaces were creepy similar too. I think I used would though because it's something all psychopaths do.

She used a lot to ingratiate and then trap him...mormonism, self-improvement, travel, sex, seeking a deeper meaning in life, being helpful (or appearing to be) to others. They target their message for their audience. One self-confessed psychopath pegged it by saying they're shapeshifters, simply wearing masks of people they've met.

JMO

A good little article on this: https://www.facebook.com/PsychopathFree/posts/355895754544658

 

[Hope4More]

OK WSers: I figured out how to search for posts when you ask me a question. Yay. Bad news, thread closed, can't respond...so...

I will return to the courtroom Monday, Groundhog Day...ironic since it seems Nurmi will be doing cross on Bishop Parker and it will feel like Groundhog Day for us with his inability to effectively impeach.

Getting to know some of the insiders slowly. I'm the new kid in town and I don't exactly blend (My Cousin Vinny reference). Day before yesterday JA turned and stared at me during a recess and I stared right back into those dead eyes until she turned away. If MDLR follows the forum, I wondered if they were trying to figure out who ziggy was. If they were curious, I'm sure it wasn't difficult to figure out.

One of the media reporters approached me - she was looking for JA supporters to interview so, no interview happened. She said JA supporters won't talk to her. She also said she is the only one in the media room who thinks the verdict will be death. Most of the trial watchers think death penalty will be handed down.

Spoke at length with the Tweeter, The 13th Juror, who authored a book on the Devault murder case for which he did jury duty. Interesting similarity in the cases. We compared jury duty stories, as I was jury foreman in a criminal trial last year in the courthouse where I knew most of the judges and my law school friends clerked in the DA's office and the Public Defenders Office. Beats me how I remained on the jury, but it was not fun and another woman and I hung the jury; the 2 of us guilty, the other 10 found reasonable doubt based on the desperate "the photo ID procedure used to gain the witnesses' ID of the defendant was flawed and subliminally made them choose him" argument. It worked because all of our eyewitnesses had been drinking and all gave widely varying descriptions of the perp. But I digress...

He has been studying the JA jurors and told me that the seasoned citizen male is the loner juror aka one who could hang a jury. Apparently he carries a CD Walkman (yes, you read that correctly) and puts his earbuds in during breaks and does not engage in conversations with the others. I have observed he does take notes often.

We agreed the Bishop looks like the perfect witness - above reproach - a friendly looking, soft- spoken older gent, who seems a bit nervous but appears to want to answer truthfully, even though this process pains him.

Jen from Trial Diaries is sweet. Need to find out who Wild is because the commentaries crack me up. Beth K has her computer on her lap with the power cord attached to an extension cord, lol. She is a one row media mogul.

Have a a great weekend and let's hope the Seahawks and their fans take their cold, stupid rain back To Seattle with them!!!

Really interesting, thanks! I'd be really interested to hear YOUR impressions of Walkman juror. How many more days will you be going to court?

Just because Walkman isolates himself in public doesn't mean he's like that in the jury room. Nor does it mean that he'll arrive at a different conclusion than the others or hold out.....

From what you've tweeted so far, I'd trust your take over Sanders. . And that the media folk think not DP? Pffft.

 

[mydirtysecret]

Exactly hatfield! I made a post earlier saying that the juror questions of DR could've just been curiousity questions by non Mormons not that any of it was going to weigh into the decision but that they were simply curious how temple recommends worked ect. I am always intrigued but respectful of others beliefs even if they are not my own to have. I've always been a curious cat since childhood and probably ask questions that I have no business asking but,.. I still do lol.

 

[RickshawFan]

and since we know they follow this website, we know that they know exactly what to play in court to show that for at least a day, he called her his girlfriend. I just wonder though, if TA said that, was JA telling Travis that Abe was pursuing her in some form or fashion? Much of this info is lost to the ages.

JA had manipulated TA by sending him an email that she had written to Abe. This was only written so TA could get it. It was never intended for Abe. Evidently, TA believed what that letter said (it was all BS) and kept rising to the occasion of defending his "girlfriend." Abe's testimony was largely about this letter: he was not even in the address box.

 

[ElleElle]

and since we know they follow this website, we know that they know exactly what to play in court to show that for at least a day, he called her his girlfriend. I just wonder though, if TA said that, was JA telling Travis that Abe was pursuing her in some form or fashion? Much of this info is lost to the ages.

This is the way I see it. JA used Abe to make Travis jealous, which is manipulation. Travis did not "manipulate" Jodi per say because I doubt he talked about to Jodi the women he dated or texted to Jodi. Which is why she had to sneak around to find everything about his life.

Travis was private with regards to his love life, whereas Jodi used her magic wand and made up men and situations.

 

[Wing Ding]

I just finished reading the letter from Jodi to the Alexander family. I really hope the jurors have access to the entire letter in deliberations. There is no doubt after reading that letter that she has absolutely no remorse. And she has absolutely no redeeming qualities. It shows she is a complete nutjob. She spends most of the letter bashing Travis. She states at the end that she will not serve one day in prison for a heinous act SHE DID NOT COMMIT. In my opinion, even amongst all the vitriol she is spewing about Travis, Deanna, Lisa, Mimi - the craziest, most horribly hurtful thing she says in the letter is when she is describing fleeing from the house after the Ninja attack. She is recounting how she was too terrified to get help for Travis (after taking the time to grab her purse), and she states - in parenthesis - "(awful, I know. I didn't look as I backed out. I probably should've never been driving in that kind of state. . . . )" GMAFB!! I cannot believe she is so unaware how totally crazy that statement is. She thinks the awful part of this entire episode is that she didn't "look" while backing the car out of the driveway? That is what she thinks??!!

The letter is a total eye opener as the level of her psychopathy. I really, really want the jury to see this in its entirety.

And to paraphrase Inspector "Dirty" Harry Callahan, "Well I'm all broken up about her two bleeding toenails".

 

[ElleElle]

Sherry CAN certainly be blamed for allowing Nurmi to stop court on Wed., inconvenience the bishop and make him return, just because his whining makes Sherry melt or something.. Wah, Wah, Wah.

ZERO excuse for the scheduling going on under Sherry's command. L@@K how long it took for the DT to get their witnesses in a row. There would have been NO gaps, without Sherry's blessings.

Sherry hasn't run that courtroom from Day 1, Jodi, Nurmi and Willmott have been doing it.

Poor insignificant jurors.

BBM~ It's not JSS' fault for no court on Wednesday. The hotels were all booked and Bishop Parker had nowhere to stay. He was sent back home and will return Monday. For Nurmi's cross!

 

[Wagara]

I have learned that having book learnings does not always translate to being good at what you do. There are people who are motivated and driven to succeed and that gets you far but it doesn't mean you'll always be good at putting what you learn into practice. I think Willmott is intelligent and she is good at what she does and can teach the things she's learned to future lawyers. I am only observing this from a lay person's point of view but I think she does make these boneheaded mistakes and doedn't know when to quit while she's ahead. She asks TOO MANY questionsI've noticed that when she thinks she's made a good point she tried to really nail it down and keeps asking questions on that one point in many different ways and that leads her into undoing the work she just did in getting the answer she originally wanted.

For instance, when she was questioning Dr. Hayes and kept trying to drill on Dr. Demarte not doing a good job, she'd ask a question, get the answer she wanted and then keep going. She had tried to say previous that Demarte was being misleading by including work she's done before she was licensed as years that she practiced. Hayes said she would not include pre-license work in how many years she'd been practicing. And Willmott kept going and got Hayes to say that while other psychologists might do this, she personally doesn't. It's just a choice. Good job.

Or when she was trying to nail Demarte for not using the latest version of the MCMI. Willmott had gotten an answer she wanted and said, "you wouldn't just not use the latest version because your employer hadn't bought the latest version, would you?" Giving Hayes the chance to say yeah that's exactly one reason why you wouldn't. You can't use it if you don't have it. She further clarified that even though there's an updated version, using an older version is still perfectly adequate. It's just an updated version of the tests but the old test still works fine.

I think the points she wants to make are good but she doesn't always ask the questions in a way to make her point. She's too open ended.

Point taken...but her professionalism is her downfall imo. She's catty and super sensitive. You can't be both and look professional. If I didn't know better I'd think this was her first case.

 

[BritsKate]

This is the way I see it. JA used Abe to make Travis jealous, which is manipulation. Travis did not "manipulate" Jodi per say because I doubt he talked about to Jodi the women he dated or texted to Jodi. Which is why she had to sneak around to find everything about his life.

Travis was private with regards to his love life, whereas Jodi used her magic wand and made up men and situations.

RBBM

And we know, all too well, that Jodi manipulates men by painting herself as the perpetual victim of men. We have no clue what Jodi told Travis about Abe. She played head games with practically every guy in her life about every other guy in her life. It wouldn't surprise me at all if she'd painted a picture for Travis that had cast Abe as the villain and her as the demure damsel in distress. Ugh.

 

[Shadowboy]

OK WSers: I figured out how to search for posts when you ask me a question. Yay. Bad news, thread closed, can't respond...so...

I will return to the courtroom Monday, Groundhog Day...ironic since it seems Nurmi will be doing cross on Bishop Parker and it will feel like Groundhog Day for us with his inability to effectively impeach.

Getting to know some of the insiders slowly. I'm the new kid in town and I don't exactly blend (My Cousin Vinny reference). Day before yesterday JA turned and stared at me during a recess and I stared right back into those dead eyes until she turned away. If MDLR follows the forum, I wondered if they were trying to figure out who ziggy was. If they were curious, I'm sure it wasn't difficult to figure out.

One of the media reporters approached me - she was looking for JA supporters to interview so, no interview happened. She said JA supporters won't talk to her. She also said she is the only one in the media room who thinks the verdict will be death. Most of the trial watchers think death penalty will be handed down.

Spoke at length with the Tweeter, The 13th Juror, who authored a book on the Devault murder case for which he did jury duty. Interesting similarity in the cases. We compared jury duty stories, as I was jury foreman in a criminal trial last year in the courthouse where I knew most of the judges and my law school friends clerked in the DA's office and the Public Defenders Office. Beats me how I remained on the jury, but it was not fun and another woman and I hung the jury; the 2 of us guilty, the other 10 found reasonable doubt based on the desperate "the photo ID procedure used to gain the witnesses' ID of the defendant was flawed and subliminally made them choose him" argument. It worked because all of our eyewitnesses had been drinking and all gave widely varying descriptions of the perp. But I digress...

He has been studying the JA jurors and told me that the seasoned citizen male is the loner juror aka one who could hang a jury. Apparently he carries a CD Walkman (yes, you read that correctly) and puts his earbuds in during breaks and does not engage in conversations with the others. I have observed he does take notes often.

We agreed the Bishop looks like the perfect witness - above reproach - a friendly looking, soft- spoken older gent, who seems a bit nervous but appears to want to answer truthfully, even though this process pains him.

Jen from Trial Diaries is sweet. Need to find out who Wild is because the commentaries crack me up. Beth K has her computer on her lap with the power cord attached to an extension cord, lol. She is a one row media mogul.

Have a a great weekend and let's hope the Seahawks and their fans take their cold, stupid rain back To Seattle with them!!!

Can't thank you enough for sharing your courtroom experiences with us! The BBM part: You know, they DID bring it with them; here in Seattle it's bluebird skies and (relatively speaking) warm. {Go Hawks!}

 

[Wing Ding]

I thought the make out session with Abe was a year before TA and JA met?

Actually I believe the Abe/JA make-out session would have been after The Hughes' (TA/JA sex #1), Starbucks (TA/JA sex #2), Ehrenberg (TA/JA sex #3) and her being baptized (TA/JA sex #4).

That's a lot of magic.

 

[Truth Detector]

This may surprise folks, but some guys will tell a girl they like her to keep the sex spigot on. May even -- secretly -- call her "girlfriend", "dear", "hon'", etc. on occasion as TA did.

Doesn't mean they've been to pick out a ring or that they've put down a deposit on a venue.

 

[Shadowboy]

RBBM

And we know, all too well, that Jodi manipulates men by painting herself as the perpetual victim of men. We have no clue what Jodi told Travis about Abe. She played head games with practically every guy in her life about every other guy in her life. It wouldn't surprise me at all if she'd painted a picture for Travis that had cast Abe as the villain and her as the demure damsel in distress. Ugh.

You nailed it! Didn't she exchange the same "I've been hurt/cheated on" song and dance with RB via email before she made plans to visit him? Not sure where to go to find that exchange; but my pea-brain recalls one of her damsel-in-distress missives aimed at her new target.

 

[Truth Detector]

Actually I believe the Abe/JA make-out session would have been after The Hughes' (TA/JA sex #1), Starbucks (TA/JA sex #2), Ehrenberg (TA/JA sex #3) and her being baptized (TA/JA sex #4).

That's a lot of magic.

We know there was grinding at Ehrenburg, but no confirmation of any of the other three and a half, IIRC.

Only her worthless word for it; e.g., being "spun around", 'Lewinskys' in the car, drive-by Toblerones, etc.

A lot of magic?

Or maybe just strange magic?

 

[Wing Ding]

And now for something completely different...

Judge Sherry may not have had any other option than to shut down court before the end of the day on Wednesday until Monday morning.

Don't blame it on the Super Bowl. The weather in Arizona is brutal. Get out while you can!

[video=youtube;487ZCFNLY2g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=487ZCFNLY2g[/video]

 

[Hope4More]

RBBM

And we know, all too well, that Jodi manipulates men by painting herself as the perpetual victim of men. We have no clue what Jodi told Travis about Abe. She played head games with practically every guy in her life about every other guy in her life. It wouldn't surprise me at all if she'd painted a picture for Travis that had cast Abe as the villain and her as the demure damsel in distress. Ugh.

She had a very consistent MO of using other folks to manipulate Travis, even when she had to invent them.

The Abe thing got me thinking again about Matt. She writes in her journal in 2007 that she's in touch with him, and that she's talking to him about Travis and feeling suicidal.

Then I think about her visiting him on the way to kill Travis , and calling him en route to Utah. And afterwards, that he was willing to lie, forge letters, and commit perjury for her. What's up with that?

A wild guess is that she did tell Matt that Travis was abusing her...in order to manipulate Matt. Maybe she even told Matt what she was going to do. If she did, would he have believed her? And if she told him ahead of time then called him afterwards, maybe he was willing to help her because he believed everything she told him about Travis and thought he deserved to die?

Is that toooooo far out there?