Retrial for Sentencing of Jodi Arias #1

[AZlawyer]

Question to AZlawyer still stands. Regardless of what the sanctions were for. Can the sanctions still be raised in court or does she just get away with it? Also, second part of the question, is it possible she withdrew because of possible sanctions and is playing games with JM?

I guess I wasn't very clear. I never knew what the sanctions were for. And maybe JM threatened even more sanctions after his interviews with said witnesses or after her three way calls, I don't know. I just want to know if any of this crap JA pulled while representing herself can be brought up in court? I am hoping so. I wanted to hear from AZlawyer if she believes it will be or can be. So sick of the killer's antics.

I answered your questions over in the legal thread.

 

[ElleElle]

So JA shot him first then dragged him all around the bathroom, down the hall and back again just for the heck of it? :gaah:

Maybe the bullet cleared his brain therefore did not kill him instantly as she had planned (still premeditation). He started to crawl away and she was stabbing him in the back until the bedroom. Once in that area, throat slit, drag back, clean up.

This is, IMO, possible.

 

[T-4-2]

What happened to Travis is not the least bit funny. What's funny is her outrageous claims, the fact that she is amazed people don't believe her, her witless witness stand performance, while nasty to Travis and his family, was comical in that she thought that :censored: would fly with anyone. Her attorney's choices of "experts" was comical as well. The smugness and apparent ulterior motives from her "expert" witness' was amusing as well, and of course JM's total annihilation of any pieces of dignity they may have left. JMO

Well put, and thank you for making the distinction.

 

[ElleElle]

Honestly, LWOP for Ms. Arias would be fine with me as long as she is in Perryville with 0 contact to the outside world.
BTW - I'll put money on that this will be televised just in time for 2014 HLN Fall programming.

 

[Worry Wart]

Yep, here is Jen's latest blog. I have no doubt CMJA orchestrated the so called "leak" of the phone call. It was so obvious she was up to no good again.

http://thetrialdiaries.com/jodi-ari...we-delay-again-motion-leaked-jailhouse-audio/

 

[MeeBee]

Maybe the bullet cleared his brain therefore did not kill him instantly as she had planned (still premeditation). He started to crawl away and she was stabbing him in the back until the bedroom. Once in that area, throat slit, drag back, clean up.

This is, IMO, possible.

I think it is entirely possible that she shot him first and since it was such a tiny bullet it did little (relatively speaking, of course) damage and did not kill him but obstructed his ability to fend off Jodi, making it a little easier to overtake and kill him. Very likely Travis would have no problem overpowering her and escaping if he was at full strength.

UNLESS, as the ME said, the stab to the chest was first, which caught him off guard and caused a surge of severe pain and the inability to catch his breath. That, of course along with the shock, could have affected his ability to fight back. It was also the fatal wound, which drained him fairly quickly of energy and strength.

But we will never know. Jodi is the only who could tell us so all this will ever be is speculation for the purpose of discussion. So, for the time, I will simply go with the ME explanation of things since it's rooted in science and experience and since it's the only explanation we have at this point of what happened. It might be wrong, but it's not like Jodi will ever seriously confirm or deny it. So there's no point wasting energy pondering it. That's what happened.

 

[ElleElle]

I think it is entirely possible that she shot him first and since it was such a tiny bullet it did little (relatively speaking, of course) damage and did not kill him but obstructed his ability to fend off Jodi, making it a little easier to overtake and kill him. Very likely Travis would have no problem overpowering her and escaping if he was at full strength.

UNLESS, as the ME said, the stab to the chest was first, which caught him off guard and caused a surge of severe pain and the inability to catch his breath. That, of course along with the shock, could have affected his ability to fight back. It was also the fatal wound, which drained him fairly quickly of energy and strength.

But we will never know. Jodi is the only who could tell us so all this will ever be is speculation for the purpose of discussion. So, for the time, I will simply go with the ME explanation of things since it's rooted in science and experience and since it's the only explanation we have at this point of what happened. It might be wrong, but it's not like Jodi will ever seriously confirm or deny it. So there's no point wasting energy pondering it. That's what happened.

Correct. Science is science as to facts are facts. The fact that Dr. Horn and and Det. Flores but made an "error" during the autopsy speaks volumes. JMO, of course.

 

[MeeBee]

Correct. Science is science as to facts are facts. The fact that Dr. Horn and and Det. Flores but made an "error" during the autopsy speaks volumes. JMO, of course.

What error?

ETA: Oh yes, I remember now. The "error" was Flores' and I think it was pretty clear it was a misunderstanding that occurred before the order of wounds was even an issue and before Dr. Horn had actually formulated a firm opinion on it. This was not a focus of the state or the ME until the defense began harping on it and the state asked the ME his opinion and he simply gave it. His opinion changed that small aspect of the state's case a bit. Because it had to. You can't put an expert on to say one thing while you're saying another. Perhaps even Juan is of a different opinion.

But given the ME's reasons for the finding that the gunshot was first, I don't know how he could have come to any other conclusion. Travis ambulated and he had defensive wounds. His opinion is that with a gunshot wound of that nature Travis would not have been able to do either of those things and so his opinion was the gunshot wound came last. He may not have even come to a personal opinion either way. But he examined his medical evidence after the question was put to him and gave his answer. You seem to be saying that both the ME and Flores were being deliberately dishonest. What's the point of that? To make Jodi seem like even more of a liar? They had enough evidence of that without any need for fabrication of autopsy reports. That's a pretty lofty accusation. If they were dishonest, then JM was too because the only reason he'd lie about that is if he was asked to by the state. But like I said, I don't think he needed to (nor did he have reason to) lie. His reasoning was pretty sound and logical and he sounded pretty firm about it. I didn't detect any hint of dishonesty from him.

At this point, I guess I can't really see what it matters. It's fun to talk about for discussions sake, sure, but what does the wound order really have to do with the premeditated murder that was committed? Jodi stabbed, shot and nearly decapitated him. She planned it all out. Either way, he suffered, he felt pain, he felt what must have been immense fear. What does it matter, really, what came first?

 

[deedee21]

Jodi is up to something. I think there was someone she needed to speak to. Shes not able to sneak out messages thru magazines anymore. I hope her conversations on and off the phone were not private.

 

[cindymac]

Maybe the bullet cleared his brain therefore did not kill him instantly as she had planned (still premeditation). He started to crawl away and she was stabbing him in the back until the bedroom. Once in that area, throat slit, drag back, clean up.

This is, IMO, possible.

It is not possible that the bullet "cleared" the brain.

Once it has entered the forehead and passed clear through the skull (and therefore the dura mater which, as I mentioned before, is attached to the skull and very thin) there is nothing to stop it entering the brain.

The only thing standing its way are two very thin filmy layers of meninges sandwiched together with cerebrospinal fluid (99% water). These very thin and essentially liquid elements have no capacity whatsoever to slow, halt or divert a bullet.

In addition, the total distance from the inside of the skull to the brain is a mere 2.5mm. So, even if a bullet were to magically pass through the skull at the forehead, stop and do an immediate 45 degree turn, so that it travelled along the inside of the skull, the bullet would still necessarily enter the brain by virtue of the bullet being considerably thicker than 2.5mm. (Recovered size is about 8.5 mm by 9 mm.)

Some additional magic would be required to keep the bullet close to the skull, as again, the meninges lack the substance to affect it's path in any way, let alone keep it pressed against the skull.

But of course, magic is not in play.

So, with nothing to block or alter its path, the rest is, as Dr. Horn said, "simple geometry" based on where and at what angles the bullet actually entered and came to rest.

 

[Love Never Fails]

What error?

ETA: Oh yes, I remember now. The "error" was Flores' and I think it was pretty clear it was a misunderstanding that occurred before the order of wounds was even an issue and before Dr. Horn had actually formulated a firm opinion on it. This was not a focus of the state or the ME until the defense began harping on it and the state asked the ME his opinion and he simply gave it. His opinion changed that small aspect of the state's case a bit. Because it had to. You can't put an expert on to say one thing while you're saying another. Perhaps even Juan is of a different opinion.

But given the ME's reasons for the finding that the gunshot was first, I don't know how he could have come to any other conclusion. Travis ambulated and he had defensive wounds. His opinion is that with a gunshot wound of that nature Travis would not have been able to do either of those things and so his opinion was the gunshot wound came last. He may not have even come to a personal opinion either way. But he examined his medical evidence after the question was put to him and gave his answer. You seem to be saying that both the ME and Flores were being deliberately dishonest. What's the point of that? To make Jodi seem like even more of a liar? They had enough evidence of that without any need for fabrication of autopsy reports. That's a pretty lofty accusation. If they were dishonest, then JM was too because the only reason he'd lie about that is if he was asked to by the state. But like I said, I don't think he needed to (nor did he have reason to) lie. His reasoning was pretty sound and logical and he sounded pretty firm about it. I didn't detect any hint of dishonesty from him.

At this point, I guess I can't really see what it matters. It's fun to talk about for discussions sake, sure, but what does the wound order really have to do with the premeditated murder that was committed? Jodi stabbed, shot and nearly decapitated him. She planned it all out. Either way, he suffered, he felt pain, he felt what must have been immense fear. What does it matter, really, what came first?

I whole heatedly agree. And it would be nice if folks could move forward and not dwell on which injury came first. She premeditated a murder, carried it out and has done nothing but lie. What else matters now but her punishment?

 

[Love Never Fails]

Again I hope JSS will allow cameras in the courtroom, at least when the punishment is read. I want to see her face. FOR THE LAST TIME THOUGH.

 

[LambChop]

If she shot him first why would she stab him to death as if that was the humane thing to do. If she were being humane she would have shot him again to make sure he was dead. Stabbing him 29 times shows severe anger and an attempt to make him suffer. Either way the stabbing is the malicious part. No one can get past that. jmo

 

[Tuba]

The two sides float into Monday's conference on a tide of antagonism over defense witnesses. That has been duly reported in media. All parties are also pushed out of shape over other issues and orders to act, willing or not. Arias relies on her professional witness to sway the next jury and such witnesses usually seek publicity to advance their career & recognition from peers and prospective clients. For that reason, the defense may be pressured to think again regarding cameras in the courtroom. The television motion may be more persuasive this time round, as well.

Judge Stephens has demonstrated that she insists on an orderly court, so we can expect the parties to the proceeding to conduct themselves with civility. Now that Arias has retreated to a passive position in her defendant's seat, there may be fewer snarls. She will continue to drag, brake and stall, however. That in itself is enough to spur a crisis Monday.

 

[ElleElle]

What error?

ETA: Oh yes, I remember now. The "error" was Flores' and I think it was pretty clear it was a misunderstanding that occurred before the order of wounds was even an issue and before Dr. Horn had actually formulated a firm opinion on it. This was not a focus of the state or the ME until the defense began harping on it and the state asked the ME his opinion and he simply gave it. His opinion changed that small aspect of the state's case a bit. Because it had to. You can't put an expert on to say one thing while you're saying another. Perhaps even Juan is of a different opinion.

But given the ME's reasons for the finding that the gunshot was first, I don't know how he could have come to any other conclusion. Travis ambulated and he had defensive wounds. His opinion is that with a gunshot wound of that nature Travis would not have been able to do either of those things and so his opinion was the gunshot wound came last. He may not have even come to a personal opinion either way. But he examined his medical evidence after the question was put to him and gave his answer. You seem to be saying that both the ME and Flores were being deliberately dishonest. What's the point of that? To make Jodi seem like even more of a liar? They had enough evidence of that without any need for fabrication of autopsy reports. That's a pretty lofty accusation. If they were dishonest, then JM was too because the only reason he'd lie about that is if he was asked to by the state. But like I said, I don't think he needed to (nor did he have reason to) lie. His reasoning was pretty sound and logical and he sounded pretty firm about it. I didn't detect any hint of dishonesty from him.

At this point, I guess I can't really see what it matters. It's fun to talk about for discussions sake, sure, but what does the wound order really have to do with the premeditated murder that was committed? Jodi stabbed, shot and nearly decapitated him. She planned it all out. Either way, he suffered, he felt pain, he felt what must have been immense fear. What does it matter, really, what came first?

I am in no way defending Jodi, and I respect Dr. Horn and Det. Flores.

My point is, it may viewed differently from a juror's perpective as it may lay seeds of reasonable doubt.

The reason to me it matters is because Jodi said the gunshot came first.

You made a good point as far as the defensive wounds though, and yes, it is very hard to believe someone would fight off a knife after being shot in the head.

I am not a gun person, but can .25 calibre gun do alot of damage?

 

[ElleElle]

If she shot him first why would she stab him to death as if that was the humane thing to do. If she were being humane she would have shot him again to make sure he was dead. Stabbing him 29 times shows severe anger and an attempt to make him suffer. Either way the stabbing is the malicious part. No one can get past that. jmo

Right, she could of shot him, ran away and called 911 if she was "defending" herself.

 

[ElleElle]

I whole heatedly agree. And it would be nice if folks could move forward and not dwell on which injury came first. She premeditated a murder, carried it out and has done nothing but lie. What else matters now but her punishment?

I am discussing it because I am trying to figure what "new evidence" Jodi is going to bring up in the sentencing trial.

 

[ShadyLady]

ellelle, I always thought she shot him first, and he just kept going to her dismay. She might have even had to run downstairs for the knife. Maybe that is why he was able to crawl to the bedroom.

 

[krkrjx]

IMO, the gunshot wound would have bled profusely if he had been shot first. I believe the shot was post-mortem based on the description given by the experts that there was little to no bleeding from that particular wound.

Head wounds--even relatively minor ones--bleed a lot. And if the victim is at all active after a head wound it will bleed even more copiously than if he remains still.

I do not know that the gunshot was last but I do not believe it was first. Whenever it happened, IMO, he was either already dead or died very quickly after the shot to the head.

 

[geevee]

Correct. Science is science as to facts are facts. The fact that Dr. Horn and and Det. Flores but made an "error" during the autopsy speaks volumes. JMO, of course.

What about the fact that the bridge of his nose was broken by the bullet's travel to his cheek? Had be been shot first, there would have been copious amount of blood in his lungs and stomach from trying to breathe through the flow of blood down his throat.

If you watch the unedited interrogation tapes you'll see that Flores believed from the beginning that Travis had to have been shot first because he didn't think JA could have done all that damage without him first being diabled in some manner.