Retrial for Sentencing of Jodi Arias - 12/05-08 In recess

[Steve44]

I understand your opinion, Steve. Just not sure I agree. I'm old enough to remember when computers first became standard tools in the office/academia.

Viruses as a threat were unknown, then slightly known, then well known and removing them accepted as SOP. But there was a progression. Didnt happen all at once.

In the PC and virtual world 2008 was a lifetime ago. TA'S HD seems to have had viruses. The number which are on Mesa's HD is significant enough , if not quarantined, to have messed with speed and functionality. The number cited by BN, if not quarantined, would seem to me to have rendered his HD virtually impossible to use.

That's why in part I don't believe databases explain the difference, unless all the bad stuff was quarantined. But, if it was , I don't see why starting it up would allow those viruses to delete files.

I'm not aware of anyone claiming viruses deleted files. As far as I'm aware the alleged file deleters are:

1) LE and the prosecution (least likely)
2) Antivirus software, triggered by the original defense team (most likely)
3) the current defense expert (undetermined and unrelated to the original alleged deletions)

There isn't enough real information for anyone on the outside to make a clear determination on what actually went on. We haven't heard from Juan's expert, and that may shed some light on the situation.

I choose not to speculate on how fast Travis' computer would or wouldn't have run with X number of viruses, active or quarantined. It's not an issue that any of the parties have brought up, and frankly I'm grateful for that.

The computer environment of 2008 is similar to the one today. Viruses of this nature arose with the internet ca. 2000, and its been more the same than different since then.

As someone with above average knowledge of these things, which imo says more about the average level of knowledge than about my own, I simply wanted to point out that the numbers you find significant are not at all to me, and I hoped you would find that information helpful.

You strike me as a keen critical thinker, and I don't want to lose you down a rabbit hole.

But really, we have to wait for more information before any of this becomes really clear, if that ever happens.

 

[NashBridges2]

Yes, we are waaaaay down into that rabbit hole.

Sanity in this trial ended in late October and hasn't yet been restored.

From secret witnesses to wild accusations against JM and Flores to parsing computer memory and viruses, all of that a campaign to delay and derail the trial, all of that born in the mind of a sociopathic convicted murderer.

And we aren't there yet. At least one more week will be spent on computer *advertiser censored*. After that ordeal we'll be a hopskip away from the holidays, and after that a new year that at this point seems very un-new indeed.

I blame the judge. Had we not taken all of the breaks and had all these delays even AFTER she told Nurmi NO MORE DELAYS, we would be wrapping this up in the next week or 2. Instead, we have 1 day court weeks, they've lost track of what this trial is about. The jury is probably spitting mad, as well they should be. Its bloody ridiculous.

 

[Nali87]

Thanks for alerting me to this post upthread Tuba, I completely missed it. I wish we could get the detail from his computer of usage between the last text to CH and the last known use of laptop, now that we know 'someone' was on his computer at 1:44 running Spybot, I just wonder if there was consistent computer usage from that point until 4:54. I suppose it's obvious, I don't believe a whit of her story of what transpired that day and I personally would like it if JM would track every known activity to show she is lying about all of it.

A natural person or Spybot running automatically on it's own? :thinking:

I searched for spyware/malware/anti virus programs articles published in 2007/2008 and it seems like some programs like CCLeaner could automatically wake up your computer in sleep mode and scan it.


Spybot apparetly does the same thing: http://www.thespinningdonut.com/how...-pc-from-spyware-using-spybot-search-destroy/ (Well did back in 2008)

 

[Steve44]

I don't think you understood me, sorry but this might be just as hard to understand.

Let's say that Tony(whoever) is one of the three techs who helped BN, then the way he did his work, especially with these type of serious allegations against the PT, would be under scrutiny, correct? Then a HD that has his name on it gets sent to the PT instead of the victim's HD(a mistake or a stall who knows), which may not have been known until the PT took a copy of it and saw that it was not the victim's after all, but instead the guy who worked on it(talk big red flag!).

As the PT, I would surely be comparing any programs that may have shown on the tech's HD to those allowed to be used in forensic recovery/discovery, and second, if they had ever shown up as being used on TA's HD or any of the images/clones taken from it.

It's my understanding that there are specific rules for doing forensic work and if BN or any of his team did not follow those rules, then any of the work they did is suspect and should not be relied on and perhaps even be disallowed altogether.

My argument is based on what Juan said. "Tony's hard drive had nothing to do with this case."
If Tony has implicated himself in this case, he did it with something derived from Travis' hard drive, and the PT team would look for and find the evidence there, not on a drive that "had nothing to do"....etc.

 

[Preyevateye]

Maybe the copy that BN gave Juan had traces of Incinerator left on it?

Undoubtedly

 

[ShadyLady]

Does anyone know where to find all the text exchanges between TA and the demon girl? Looking for a PARticular < Jodi's pronunciation. JA, says "I want to f u like a dirty, horny little school girl" :furious:

It was Feb. 26, 2008 EX 494 or EX 495 or both...TIA~

I just watch it!! But did not log it.....

I think I watched the day she was in green....??

 

[Nali87]

From the spybot article..


Seem like the program will automatically run when the pc is turned on and will fix problems (aka delete files) without needing confirmation. Like most of y'all have been saying.

 

[Shadowboy]

Hum. Here's an interesting tidbit.

Microsoft sends out bundles of Windows updates automatically on the second Tuesday of the month. June 10, 2008 was the second Tuesday of June. If the updates downloaded when TA's laptop was brought out of sleep mode, they would have automatically installed and configured when the laptop was turned back on (June 19, 2009). This configuration process is something that CANNOT be stopped.

Not sure what OS was on TA's laptop (do any of you know?) ... But if was VISTA, that was a PIG of an OS with loads of "extra" programs that opened upon start up. The overwrite/modification of thousands of "files" (not just .exe, but .dll, etc.) due to this process is quite conceivable.

 

[Tuba]

I do agree with salberg7 that the continual disruptions in what is before the jury creates a serious difficulty for them. They are aiming for complete and accurate memory of the presentations and a comprehensive understanding of evidence. Notes have both advantages & disadvantages, since they redirect attention to the page. The sharing of deliberations remedies some missed perceptions and is a tremendous aid.

If you sit down with a 320 page copy of Tale for a Rainy Night but someone keeps bouncing into your view to interrupt you, you can lose the plot, not to mention the characters. Enthusiasm becomes frustration. I would leave my wig and my book in the chair and say goodnight. This trial is far more complex and important. The jurors do need continuity, even if some have minds like steel traps. The dislike of interference is also cumulative. Too many breaks = broken. We come to courts to seek fairness and what we are seeing here is surely unfair.

 

[Val1]

So far, I have yet to hear anyone directly involved in this speaking in a clear manner which would explain things. Imagine how the judge must feel!

From JM's motion in limine, I assumed (which is always dangerous) that he had his experts go back an analyze the original image, this time specifically looking for virus and malware, both quarantined and active. This might explain why no virus were found initially and then he cites numbers found in the motion in limine. Or it could be that the initial examination did not even include a search for virus/malware.

Per BN, now TA's computer had 44 virus, 250 malware programs and 19, 22 or 29 AV/scrubber/privacy programs on it. I doubt they were all active on 6/4/2008; can you just imagine how slow that computer must have been? To that point, this may explain why there was a hard shut down of the computer on 6/19/2009- anything that loaded could have frozen or hung the operating system.

Back in 2008, a lot of virus/malware did come via email. Often an initial infection would lead to another site to further infect a computer, often under the guise of AV/scrubber programs to help the user fix the problem, only to end up with more of a mess. Sounds like Travis was not really experienced or knowledgeable about protecting his computer, recognizing problems and then correcting them. Consider that he thought Jodi was hacking into his accounts, but it seems that he was not proactive in changing things so that she could not get back into those accounts. I know a lot of people have speculated that she may have put a key stroke logger program on his computer...who knows, maybe we'll find out more about this in the whole porngate matter.

From a legal perspective, I do find it interesting that in an evidentiary hearing, the judge does not take a more proactive role in directing the flow of information so as to get the facts to be able to render a decision.

BBM I had read that JA had said that they had decided on May 22, 2008 to change the open access between each other. This does not mean that she could not have already put some kind of alternate forwarding email on any of TA's accounts so as to notify her of any changes and even perhaps requiring the forwarding email to respond before authorizing them if not just have all incoming email automatically cc to the(her) alternate. Personally, I think she had already decided by then to kill him, plus it's only her word afaik that TA had access to her email.

http://murderpedia.org/female.A/images/arias-jodi/jodi-arias-court-docs-2.pdf

8) Why didn't you just change your Gmail password so Travis could not get into it
anymore?
A:
It didn't really become a problem right away, we had exchanged our passwords and so it
stayed that way for many months, after I moved it became a problem. Eventually I did change
my passwords, however, on (blah, blah) May 22, 2008 we had a conversation about how
were weren't going to do that anymore. after that, To my knowledge I didn't log into his, and I
don't think he attempted to log into mine.

 

[ShadyLady]

I do agree with salberg7 that the continual disruptions in what is before the jury creates a serious difficulty for them. They are aiming for complete and accurate memory of the presentations and a comprehensive understanding of evidence. Notes have both advantages & disadvantages, since they redirect attention to the page. The sharing of deliberations remedies some missed perceptions and is a tremendous aid.

If you sit down with a 320 page copy of Tale for a Rainy Night but someone keeps bouncing into your view to interrupt you, you can lose the plot, not to mention the characters. Enthusiasm becomes frustration. I would leave my wig and my book in the chair and say goodnight. This trial is far more complex and important. The jurors do need continuity, even if some have minds like steel traps. The dislike of interference is also cumulative. Too many breaks = broken. We come to courts to seek fairness and what we are seeing here is surely unfair.

And very unfair to the Travis'. Didn't they speak just before the "secret witness"....Nurmi wants a lot of time to pass so they forget.

 

[Val1]

Thanks, Tuba! I remember. That's what made me think about incoming mass spam emails as well as outgoing mass emails.

You can just imagine if someone entered his email into any of these *advertiser censored* sites...

 

[04009margaret]

Does anyone know where to find all the text exchanges between TA and the demon girl? Looking for a PARticular < Jodi's pronunciation. JA, says "I want to f u like a dirty, horny little school girl" :furious:

It was Feb. 26, 2008 EX 494 or EX 495 or both...TIA~

This is the quickest place to find them all in the one place......
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=jodi+arias+text+messages&biw=1242&bih=585&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=OteEVP65BOHSmAWJ64LYBQ&ved=0CBwQsAQ

 

[Love Never Fails]

This trial takes me back to the Westerfield trial, it was ugly and downright terrible what the def brought in about Danielle's parents. Very hurtful.

But it didn't matter in the end Westerfield is sitting on death row. And I might add that prosc evidence in that case was no where as strong as in this one. IMO opinion what convicted him was her hair in his motor home on his headboard. Def argued she had been in the motor home didn't work.

This case has some of the strongest evidence I have ever seen in pre med and of course she admits it.

So I will not lose faith that this jury will get it right. Of course there can always be a juror that is predisposed to hang but nothing anyone can do about that.

So as the mud slinging goes on, I will pray for the family, the prosecution and the jury.

I thought strongly about just going away from this case I really have nothing to offer and it really hurts my heart to read what is going on then I think about his siblings and friends and feel If they can endure this hideous trial I surely can and sending as much love and support as I can. IMO 99.9 % of the world knows that JA is a hateful monster and each low that she sinks to is lower than the last. I just pray the 12 jurors feel the same way.

Meemaw, I am really concerned about this case. I walk away and come back. I thought the sentencing phase would be short and sweet, thought it was a done deal. The defense is retrying the case and the judge is allowing it. Since there is a new jury, with trial no more than two days a week, with all the computer stuff being thrown at everyone, and possibly the *advertiser censored* coming in, and secret witnesses, it muddies the waters for the facts of the prosecution's case. Apparently, morals and ethics mean NOTHING to defense lawyers anymore. I can actually see her walking away due to some type of mistrial or appeal. I cannot fathom why JSS let it get to this place. If this sentencing phase ends with an actual sentence I will be surprised. If she receives a DP sentence, I will be shocked.

Westerfield is a man who raped and murdered a child. It is apparent that jurors go softer on women than on men, which is grossly unfair. Then you get defense counsel who bring in psychologists who hate men to lie for Jodi. So even though she admitted the killing, and even though Juan Martinez has the evidence, I am left with a sickening feeling in my stomach. I just have to sometimes get away from it all. I wish Travis's family could walk away. My heart goes out to them.

As for JSS, she is a major disappointment. I pray she never gets another death penalty case before her.

 

[Val1]

http://archive.azcentral.com/community/mesa/articles/2008/06/13/20080613mr-victim0614.html

Found this on FB it was written June 13, 2008.

One thing I found interesting/disturbing, was that some of JA's correspondence, in fact a letter to TA not long before she killed him, appeared to have been printed with footers from TA's book files in word perfect. I haven't done word processing in some time so don't recall exactly how that can happen, but just that his "Raising You" footer is on her printed matter raises my blood pressure.



Edit: I forgot to add, I believe she had sent this to her own email from TA's pc though it's difficult to tell if what I was looking at is the start of this same letter and doesn't even show the date, just that it was sent to JA.

 

[04009margaret]

Hum. Here's an interesting tidbit.

Microsoft sends out bundles of Windows updates automatically on the second Tuesday of the month. June 10, 2008 was the second Tuesday of June. If the updates downloaded when TA's laptop was brought out of sleep mode, they would have automatically installed and configured when the laptop was turned back on (June 19, 2009). This configuration process is something that CANNOT be stopped.

Not sure what OS was on TA's laptop (do any of you know?) ... But if was VISTA, that was a PIG of an OS with loads of "extra" programs that opened upon start up. The overwrite/modification of thousands of "files" (not just .exe, but .dll, etc.) due to this process is quite conceivable.

BBM

It was Windows XP

 

[Dmacky]

This is the quickest place to find them all in the one place......
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=jodi+arias+text+messages&biw=1242&bih=585&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=OteEVP65BOHSmAWJ64LYBQ&ved=0CBwQsAQ

WOW ! Thank you so much Margaret....that's a goldmine :smile:

 

[bznbear]

Yes he sure did seem to believe that this program was downloaded onto whatever copy had been supplied to him. I would have to assume it was his experts who told him this. I also believe that BN is using others to do this work for him because he is not an expert and is winging it as far as testifying about it.

Someone mentioned that "experts" in forensic computers have to be certified or licensed? Is this correct? Would he be licensed as a forensic expert in the audio and video that he usually testifies about? Is he using this license to testify to the computer information? Is that why he has to testify and not "Tony"?

MOO

I think his ego is so great that he wants to testify, to even the score with JM. Same with MF. Why doesn't BN know what Incinerator 2.3 is?

 

[04009margaret]

WOW ! Thank you so much Margaret....that's a goldmine :smile:

I find google images very helpful at times like this. If it was printed anywhere, google images will have it.

 

[04009margaret]

I think his ego is so great that he wants to testify, to even the score with JM. Same with MF. Why doesn't BN know what Incinerator 2.3 is?

I actually believe he instilled himself into this case to stroke his ego. Nurmi didn't contact him, everyone was trying to Photoshop TA's eye in the shower photo way before BN came on the scene. I think he saw what was going on, tried it himself, then called Nurmi to say he could blow the case wide open. Trouble is everyone else saw JA with her arm raised & a knife in her hand lol.