Retrial for Sentencing of Jodi Arias - 2/10 - Break

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Who is Lulu??? In the comments section. She reads here? hmmmm.....very wordy.

Lulu believes JA was physically, emotionally, and sexually abused by Travis, that ALV is more credible than DM, and that JM isn't very intelligent.

Hope thinks Lulu's opinions are a tad bit skewed. Even the hung jurors of yore didn't believe the physical abuse lies. As for JM not being intelligent...words fail.
 
lol....sorry, I don't think "LuLu" has a "clu clu" about this case. Sounds like a member of the defense team or one of the Jodi fans...

ALV fan....

:desert::groucho::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:
 

I find LuLu's post rather interesting particularly her choice of words. 'Jody and Travis : The Perfect Storm.' Weren't those very words used this morning in a post?

I found her to be a lot like ALV and stilted/stagnated in her views. She has let her personal experience with her ex-husband cloud her judgment. She comes across as having the same 'hater of all men' attitude that I saw ALV present in court.

She seems to be the type of woman I have seen from time to time over the years who cannot let go of the past and brings the baggage forward with her when deciphering anything to do with another male and another woman who is 'claiming' abuse. Sadly, some women will just believe another woman if they just claim abuse..... especially if they too were abused by another male in their lifetime. They will believe it even though the evidence shows otherwise and doesn't support it.

It is interesting how different human beings process the same things. With JA, she has caused a fury because the majority of women who really have suffered domestic abuse don't believe one thing she has to say, me included.

But of course there will be some that simply believe without proof. It is sort of like the mentality of "I was abused, so you SAY you were abused, so therefore I believe you without question.' To me that clouds someone's judgment. I cant simply believe JA was abused because I am an abuse survivor. In fact I look at her with great disdain that she would dare even use this lying excuse trying to save her pathetic life. Its really a slap in the face for all who have truly suffered from it and never harmed a soul.

I really am sick and tired of the abuse excuses used only by female defendants, anyway. It is like it is tattooed on their hip and if they ever find themselves in the justice system the first excuse they come up with is the abuse excuse without one shred of evidence to support any of it. It is becoming the norm to use this.... than a rarity if it is a female defendant. It doesn't matter if she brutally murders her own defensesless children or happens to murder someone else. Its never a female defendant's fault and the blame someone else game begins. It seems to be there each and every time and the more I see it used the more I want to throw up. If it is a female murderer then its excuses, excuses, excuses. Its reprehensible to me how much double standards are played out in courtrooms simply based on the gender of the murderer.
 
Not sure I agree with you regarding Lulu. Comment was very lopsided re ALV. Not a thing on Dr G or DR S, I know DV violence personally and EASILY can recognize that the one being victimized was NOT Jodi. Travis was the victim from day one, imo. ALV is a paid hack that makes her living trashing men. Well, maybe she does allow a few men in her sphere, but ONLY if they agree with her and promote her career. It's all about the money.

I have NO respect for a DV advocate that defends the abuser. Especially, for financial gain. Pathetic.

Travis fell under Jodi's spell, recognized her craziness, tried to get out but Jodi would not let go.

Like he said, "I always take you back."

I lost all respect for ALV when she came at JM with "are you mad at me?" in that small sentence she showed no professionalism period!
 
Who is Lulu??? In the comments section. She reads here? hmmmm.....very wordy.

I had to force myself not to respond to "Lulu". She 'binge watched' the trial, talks about how great Alyce Laviolette is, subtly trashes Dr DeMarte and somehow doesn't remember Juan's last name?
Sorry "Lulu", but you don't pass the sniff test as far as I'm concerned. Alyce is that you? Or just another one of Jodi's fans?
Yes, very wordy and very suspicious for someone who just recently started following this trial.
Just my humble opinion.
 
Lulu believes JA was physically, emotionally, and sexually abused by Travis, that ALV is more credible than DM, and that JM isn't very intelligent.

Hope thinks Lulu's opinions are a tad bit skewed. Even the hung jurors of yore didn't believe the physical abuse lies. As for JM not being intelligent...words fail.

Ya, think. LOL.

I equate what ALV did to an animal rights advocate making their living doing seminars, setting up non-profits, being paid by legal system to defend people that abuse animals, and then write books on it, while turning a blind eye to the real abusers for money.

Clearly the victim was Travis, yet Alice LaViolette argued tooth and nail to defend Jodi's actions and trash a dead man. Pathetic.
 
This would be a huge outrage IMO. I can't see her going this way as she has been privy to everything that has gone on...all the lies, manipulations, and every other BS thing that has transpired via the whims of the murderess.

If she does in fact end up determining her sentence, and she doesn't give LWOP, her actions should be subject to severe scrutiny.

All MOO

I do believe that, if it comes down to it, JSS would give JA Life WITH a chance at parole. JSS is either too soft or too stupid, and has let this trial get completely out of hand. I think she's fallen for JA's phony charisma, just like all the men in Jodi's life have. Also, I feel the Defense Team has intimidated and confused her.
 
Lulu believes JA was physically, emotionally, and sexually abused by Travis, that ALV is more credible than DM, and that JM isn't very intelligent.

Hope thinks Lulu's opinions are a tad bit skewed. Even the hung jurors of yore didn't believe the physical abuse lies. As for JM not being intelligent...words fail.

Physically and sexually abused? LOL. Forgive me for laughing.

Physically abused? Who? The woman who hit her brother with a baseball bat, kicked a dog and made him disappear, squeezed a cat too hard, kicked holes in walls, stalked a vulnerable man over and over again, slashed his tires and finally butchered him to death?

Sexual abuse? The one who has been prozzie-like since her teenage years, doing it with anything that moves in order to get what she wants, using sex to manipulate men, using religion as a means to satisfy her base desires, the one who was grinding and flirting with a man hours after committing a gruesome murder, the promiscuous one who couldn't even pretend to be chaste if her life depended on it?

What a joke.
 
If anyone is interested, here is a collection of 108 Easy Mitigating Factors.
http://www.fpdaz.org/assets/panel/108 Easy Mitigating Factors November 1, 2005.pdf

And, FWIW, here is the The Thinking Advocate's List of Mitigating Factors from The Sentencing Project.
http://sentencingproject.org/doc/publications/listofmitigatingfactors.pdf

Probable emotional trigger warning. This is a devil's advocatish kind of rant that may have dire consequences for some readers blood pressure. You may want to skip the next bit entirely and just look at the information in these two sources. I was amazed at how many mitigating factors exist and can understand why the DT would need a specialist in this area.

Rant: The DT is having to fight for every single one of the pitifully few mitigating factors they can offer the court on JA's behalf. It can't be easy, and I can sort of understand why LKN is so angry. He wanted to just get away from JA and was denied by JSS. I'm sure he's thinking he'll be d**ned if an appeals court will find he was ineffective counsel. So, IMO, he's spinning mitigating factors out of spiderwebs and moonbeams in an effort to create the illusion that JA was young and vulnerable at the time of the crime, and, because she is somewhat malleable because of her youth, she is capable of being rehabilitated back into society. He has to, because he has nothing else to offer on her behalf. Nothing.

He can't point to her "excellent employment record"*. He can't tell the jury that his client can be "successfully treated"* for her disorder. He can't direct the jury's attention to documentation of his client's "exemplary"* behaviour following her arrest. The defendant is not "repentant and contrite"*. His client has not by a "plea of guilty aided in ensuring the prompt and certain application of correctional measures"* to her. He can't even claim that "the passing of sentence was unduly delayed"* since the DT has been responsible for most of the delays involved. Claims of her abusive childhood seem sketchy at best, IMO.

So, he has her age (which I still think is questionable as a mitigator) and her lack of criminal record (though, as has previously been pointed out by JM, not a lack criminal behaviour). So that leaves the DT with the most distasteful of options. "The victim(s) provoked the crime to a substantial degree, or other evidence that misconduct by victim contributed substantially to the criminal episode."* That's it. And, it seems to me, that is why the DT keeps implying that Travis Alexander was a pervert (disproven, I think, by JM) and an abusive partner (also disproven, I think, by JM). That's all they've got.

A villain is the hero of his own story. So here, in his story (IMO), LKN is striving against all the odds to get his client LWP or LWOP rather than the DP. He is friendless (JW is not his friend, IMO. The two have been tied to this case by the court, not a mutual desire to offer a defence.) He is unappreciated (JA is ungrateful, irritating, and extraordinarily difficult to deal with, IMO.) He is outmanned (I think his experts are no match for the State's experts). His work will be mercilessly analyzed and judged (in appeal after appeal, IMO). So he is digging into what he has--an understanding of the law. He is looking for loopholes (I think to protect what is left of his reputation. He does not, IMO, want anyone to fault him for missing a technical detail. He does not want to be seen as ineffective.) And, IMO, he's looking for one person to have enough doubt to hang the jury and take the DP off the table. It's a monumental task, and he is JA's only hope. (It's his story, remember?) He's standing between her and the gurney, and the court has assigned him the task to keep JA from execution. He has been ordered to take on the role of advocate for one of the most vile, unlikeable, uncharismatic, unrepentant, pretentious, posturing, hateful liars in existence.

If I understand it correctly, a defence attorney is not just defending his client when he/she takes on a case. A defence attorney is defending the rights of every person in the city/county/state/country by holding the state accountable for every action taken in a court of law. So, Nurmi, by vigorously defending JA, is making sure that the next person in an Arizona courtroom will not have his/her rights trampled. He is upholding the rule of law by not allowing public opinion to influence a decision regarding his client's sentence. In a sense, he's making sure that justice remains blind to any factors extraneous to the crime before the court. It's possible, IMO, that he sees his actions as holding JM and his team, and his witnesses, to the highest standards because only by doing so can he fulfill his obligation as an officer of the court to be sure that the court system will be fair to people who, like his client IMO, are unlikeable. Fairness doesn't mean they are found not guilty nor does it mean that they go unpunished. It's just that their guilt is proven beyond a doubt.

So, although I believe JA is guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt, and I hate the way the DT is treating the State's witnesses and I would have no problem voting in favour of the DP in this case, I sort of see where LKN is coming from. He's no Atticus Finch, but he's fighting a losing battle with everything at his disposal. JMO.

*The Thinking Advocate's List of Mitigating Factors.

IMO he could do all that you said above WITHOUT so vehemently trashing the TRUE victim, who is Travis Alexander. The WAY he defends is slimy, IMO and unnecessary and untruthful. I know we need defense lawyers and everyone including JA deserves to have a good one. He is not a good one, not even by a long shot. His style is "let me ask you.......well let me back up a moment" and onto trashing Travis over and over and over again as if what she did to him and the overkill she did to him was not enough.
 
Ah, you're so brave! Thank you so much for lending your perspective. Now...knowing everything you know - do you think Jodi is 'just' borderline or do you think she exhibits traits and qualities of other disorders (ones that are certainly manipulative for the sake of being manipulative) like antisocial or narcissistic? To be frank, I really hate that she's being associated with borderline at all - it's misunderstood enough as it is.

I also hate that she is being presented as BPD as I would think the majority of BPD sufferers are not violent towards others. Self harm and suicidal actions are much commoner than hurting others. I definitely think she has another disorder. I wonder about sociopathy, as she is extremely cold and calculating. She is narcissistic definitely. She doesn't seem to present with the self doubt/struggle with self that a lot of BPD's do. She certainly didn't seem to have problems with photos of her being taken which I've found in my experience of being around other BPD's is common. We have all had a deep self loathing which has reflected in not wanting to have photos taken/be seen by others as we hate how we present. She does seem to adjust her behaviour depending on who she is with. For example jumping into Mormonism and trying to give the impression of being the studious, pious mormon to others.

Someone said in a post about killing Travis not being a good way to stop him abandoning her. However BPD people view others in a very black and white way. You are either on a pedestal and can do no wrong, or you are evil and you don't deserve the time of day. There doesn't need to be a reason why you are viewed that way. So killing Travis could be because she had moved her focus on to Ryan, and so she despised Travis and wanted him gone. Killing him was a way to remove him. But again I wonder about maybe her having some sociopathic tendencies.

She certainly isn't a typical BPD. I could say with 99.95% certainty that she doesn't have PTSD. Her "fog" isn't typical of dissociation at all in my experience.
 
Travis didn't deserve to be murdered, period. He deserved to continue his life without JA in it and make the world a better place because he was in it. Travis had done so much good for others in the short years he was here. He should have been able to continue his hopes, dreams, and goals.

And if I had known all of the hideous things she had done, and if Travis had been my brother, I would have done everything in my power trying to protect him from this evildoer. I don't think their relationship made her any way other than what she has always been. She always tried to use sex as her tool of manipulation long before she even knew Travis. Unfortunately for Travis he became the targeted victim she would murder ruthlessly. Why? Imo, because Travis had much more potential than any of the other men even though she also tried to get them to go back with her. Travis was the one who could make JA appear in a better light for all to see and to JA everything is shallow and about appearance sake.

She was out of his life. She kept intruding into his personal space. She is the one calling, texting, emailing him constantly using her usual trap of offering kinky sex. She was a 1000 miles away from him. She was the one who called him to set up the sex tape that he had no idea she recorded. So she wasn't in his life. Travis told his friends he was very upset she moved to Mesa after their 'breakup' and was relieved to see her go back to Yreka. Travis had gone to CA just two weeks before his murder and he did not go to see the murderess and IMO he never had any intentions of going. Travis was moving on with his life without JA in it and he was fine with that and relieved she was a 1000 miles away, imo.

None of this is Travis' fault. Men have been lured by sexual demons all through history..many of them powerful men and leaders. That is all JA had to offer anyone. Travis tried his best to rid himself of this plague. He told her flat out to leave him alone. He had told her that many times and they would never be married. She knew the drill yet she persisted anyway by hacking into his private spaces, stalking him, and invading every possible avenue in his life.

Her BPD would not sway me to spare her life. Not for one second. It is a disorder that millions have. Most with BPD go through life without ever murdering someone so to give JA this excuse because she has it too is ridiculous imo. Although she has always been highly manipulative, using sex as a tool, and self centered she lived a rather mundane life before meeting Travis.

Why should I all of a sudden think that this disorder means something now when she has had it ever since her childhood?

That is why no one has anything good to say about JA. She was this manipulative destructive creature long before she tried to snare Travis into her web.

Travis was too good for his own good. He had patience with her at times I am sure no one else could have had. He forgave her for many of the terrible things she did to him over and over again. He tried to help her any way he could. But even Travis had finally come to realize how dangerous she was even though Travis was known to try to see the good in everyone.

Travis was a victim of domestic homicide. His story of domestic abuse done by JA is no different than the many other tragic stories we have read here. What abusers do is first start with pouring on the charm in order to snare their target and from there they totally consume the life of the victim. Then they begin to show obsessive traits such as stalking, unhealthy jealous rages, and so often, just like Travis, when the victim has finally had their fill of the abuse they tell their victimizer they want out of the relationship and to leave them the hell alone.

Once that has been said tragically it is the most dangerous time for a victim and so many times the abuser will murder the victim who has tried to get them out of their lives.

I have no doubt, Travis like most victims of DV... tried to appease JA because he feared what would happen if he did not.
Excellent post!:goodpost:
 
Kind of fuzzy on this, but IIRC Travis knew JA was breaking into his computer. So did some of his PPL friends because she was redirecting some of his new PPL signups to her own account to receive the commission.
OMG! Didn't know this. So Jodi actually did make some money off PPL, just not her own?? That's not how a pyramid scheme works.
 
I've been under the impression that Arizona doesn't have LWP only LWOP???? Perhaps I'm wrong or just misunderstood something (been known to happen :shush:)

"If jurors don't then reach a unanimous agreement on the death penalty, the judge sentences Arias to either the rest of her life in prison or life in prison with the possibility of release after 25 years."

Source: CBSNews.com
 
Totally agree Shady Lady, I have seen similar posts from another poster using anonymous that sound exactly like Lulus'. I think ALV could be using these anonymous names to put this drivel out. The posts sound very similar in the writing. I am no expert but it comes across as praising ALV and no one else. I find that strange. She was a disaster on the stand. I also know REAL DV victims and none of them that have followed this trial believe Jodi was a victim. Amazingly they were more upset about the wooden spoon testimony. The ladies I know suffered real DV and Child Abuse not these uncorroborated allegations Jodi made. As far as TA they don't believe a word of it. I am not a victim of either DV or CA but I didn't believe a word of either. I trust these women and find their outrage equally appalling. We all come from our own perspective and background and carry our own baggage and biases. For me I have four sons and three brothers and can see the outrage of females claiming abuse where there is none to get out of trouble or cause the men trouble because they are just mad at them. I had to go to the principals office once when a young female student reported my son for calling her bad foul names. He denied it and said she was crazy, he never called her anything. According to the principal they had a 0 tolerance to this sort of thing and was going to suspend my son for three days. I said if they did this I was going to my attorney and sue the entire school for judging my son on the say so of one person with no corroborating evidence. The principal was shocked I would take it so far and asked why. I explained I hated injustice in any form and I believed my son. (This son had never lied to me even to get out of trouble so I trusted him on this.) The principal said he would let it go this time but if it happened again more serious consquences would be leveled. Of course I was not happy with this and would not let it go. I called my attorney and he agreed with me. He said it would put on my sons permanent record and if the girl decided to do it again it would not be good. He questioned my son without me present and got the lowdown. The girl like my son but he didn't return her feelings and she got mad and said she could make it bad for him. (this was a ja in the making) We filed suit and the school board called her parents and her in for a talk. She finally admitted she made it up because he refused to return her feelings. Just like my son said. This cost me $800.00 in legal fees but I got justice and a clean record for my son. I even got an apology from that horrid FEMALE principal in person and in writing. I felt vindicated and my son's football coach was behind him 100%. No more problems after that. This ALV wantabee knew better than to abuse my sons rights again. Best $800.00 I ever spent.
 
BBM: I think her actions speak for themselves ... and NO Court, again today, clearly shows JSS's poor time management skills, her lack of respect for the jurors' time and work schedules, and most importantly, the years and years of waiting for justice for the Alexander Family!

JMO but I do NOT trust JSS to do the right thing when it comes to Justice for Travis ... her actions and inactions speak volumes.

JMO and a big fat MOO !

Something came up yesterday and I don't think JSS had a choice but to cancel court, it was something that involved Wilmott. Perhaps she had a death in the family or a funeral to go to today. Plus there is another issue involved as to why she had to question all the jurors. Quit blaming her for everything without knowing all the facts!.
JSS was blamed for the Super Bowl being in Phoenix too.


Here is the reason the DT couldn't be in court today: This is what is happening in court today:

Jodi Arias: Arizona Supreme Court will review defense appeal of secret testimony on Tuesday

http://www.courtchatter.com/2015/02/...ourt-will.html
 
I do believe that, if it comes down to it, JSS would give JA Life WITH a chance at parole. JSS is either too soft or too stupid, and has let this trial get completely out of hand. I think she's fallen for JA's phony charisma, just like all the men in Jodi's life have. Also, I feel the Defense Team has intimidated and confused her.

No she won't. There is no way JSS will give Jodi LWP. She has worked too hard to preserve this conviction, has seen evidence we haven't, and knows exactly what Jodi's capable of. Judge Stephens is very smart. It's just not Florida with the Sunshine State laws, so we aren't party to alot of what goes on behind the scenes, and I'm okay with that.
 
I also hate that she is being presented as BPD as I would think the majority of BPD sufferers are not violent towards others. Self harm and suicidal actions are much commoner than hurting others. I definitely think she has another disorder. I wonder about sociopathy, as she is extremely cold and calculating. She is narcissistic definitely. She doesn't seem to present with the self doubt/struggle with self that a lot of BPD's do. She certainly didn't seem to have problems with photos of her being taken which I've found in my experience of being around other BPD's is common. We have all had a deep self loathing which has reflected in not wanting to have photos taken/be seen by others as we hate how we present. She does seem to adjust her behaviour depending on who she is with. For example jumping into Mormonism and trying to give the impression of being the studious, pious mormon to others.

Someone said in a post about killing Travis not being a good way to stop him abandoning her. However BPD people view others in a very black and white way. You are either on a pedestal and can do no wrong, or you are evil and you don't deserve the time of day. There doesn't need to be a reason why you are viewed that way. So killing Travis could be because she had moved her focus on to Ryan, and so she despised Travis and wanted him gone. Killing him was a way to remove him. But again I wonder about maybe her having some sociopathic tendencies.

She certainly isn't a typical BPD. I could say with 99.95% certainty that she doesn't have PTSD. Her "fog" isn't typical of dissociation at all in my experience.

I also don't believe Jodi is a true BPD, Val1 posted this most excellent article:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evil-deeds/201305/jodi-joran-and-casey-the-psychology-evil

The whole article is worth reading.
According to the prosecution, and a jury of her peers, much the same may be said about Jodi Arias, who told police at least three different versions of Alexander's death, initially totally denying any involvement, then that they were attacked by two ski-masked men who killed Travis, and, finally, admitting to the grotesque crime but claiming self-defense. Narcissistic Personality Disorder describes someone who is "interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends," "lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings of others," and "shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes" (DSM-IV-TR). snip

The ability to deceive and manipulate others toward one's own self-serving ends is one of the hallmarks of sociopathy and an expression of the profound pathological narcissism and anger underlying it.

I think she is saying here it's a combination of both disorders:

However, much more so than in borderline personality disorder, a sense of "narcissistic entitlement" is characteristic of both narcissistic and antisocial personality disorder.
 
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