Retrial for Sentencing of Jodi Arias - Day 17

[Steft50]

David Wallace from azcentral posted that Juans boss?? was in court speaking with Juan/Det Flores today. Any thoughts on that?

https://twitter.com/davidwallce/status/545334058080018432

 

[T-4-2]

It's so frustrating watching the way JM is having to "stoop to conquer." Why does the defense get to set the tone for these proceedings? Is there any sort of national standard for "contempt of court," or is it just at the judge's discretion?

What about "contempt of humanity?" Jodi passed that particular milestone years ago and has been steadily digging down to new levels of awful ever since. I guess she learned early on that you can have a high time being a lowlife. She and her sleaze team have shown over and over again that there really is no limit to how offensive they can be, and JM doesn't have the luxury of not dignifying their **** with a response. He has to respond. And so here we are.

 

[LambChop]

You wrote exactly what I have been thinking!

I'm betting by now most of these jurors don't even need Juan to point out how disturbed, immature and obsessed Arias was. The defense is revealing a lot about her in her own words all the while trying to cast Travis in a very negative light.

Unfortunately, today ended with journal entries around October 2007, so there is still almost 8 more months to cover. I'm hearing rumblings that Geffner is going into this detail because Arias will not be taking the stand again, which means Geffner will tell about the pedo incident yet again.

All it takes is one juror to hang against the death penalty. Martinez has Karp as a witness- she was the first defense psych witness who was supposed to testify about Travis' deviant sexual behavior and violent tendencies. Travis' friends Zach and Taylor are also on the witness list and can help to counter a lot of this testimony, painting Arias as the obsessed stalker and by no means a victim. Time will tell.

BBM: But there wasn't anything in her diary about that, was there? Not sure he can bring it in when she never documented it.

 

[Kamille]

All Juan has to do is make Doctor G read this portion of her 'journal' to the jury.

" Travis is dead. What happened?!? Travis, what is this?"

"Last night was so hard... I wanted so badly to call Travis, but knowing he wouldn't answer was too much to bear. And knowing he wasn't calling me anytime soon was just killing me. I broke down as I climbed into bed and just cried and cried and cried until I fell asleep."



That will totally invalidate all of the Bullchit they have been tediously plodding through all week long.

Funny there was no talk of suicide or depression when she made those entries. :waitasec:

The DT, at the insistence of JA have effectively figured out a way to tell JA's entire story about her relationship with TA and why she had to kill him to this jury. Because that's what she wants. That's what she insists on. Because she thinks if only people could see that she was telling the truth and that she had to kill him self defense, then not only would they not sentence her to death, but she will also walk free on appeal.

But I think at the same time as giving their client what she wants, the DT are also underhandly, unbeknownst to their client, bringing in her obvious mental issues. Which she doesn't think she has. She doesn't see those journals the way most of us do. To her they are normal and show that she was being treated badly. To us they scream mental illness.

So she deserves her first degree murder verdict and I can't see any reason why it would be reversed on appeal. But her DT is trying to find some mitigating factor to prevent her from being sentenced to the DP. Because it will reflect badly on them and their careers if, after all of this ridiculous time and money wasting, it results in her getting the DP anyway. Not to mention they just want to stick it to JM. And their client is not making it easy for them. So IMO it looks like they're trying to pull one over on her. This "doctor", if he wasn't a hired gun, would be all over this information and screaming personality disorder IMO.

It's all a game. :sigh:

MOO

 

[Kamille]

David Wallace from azcentral posted that Juans boss?? was in court speaking with Juan/Det Flores today. Any thoughts on that?

https://twitter.com/davidwallce/status/545334058080018432

I pray that JM has asked for someone above him to step in and figure out how to stop this circus.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

BBM: But there wasn't anything in her diary about that, was there? Not sure he can bring it in when she never documented it.

That hasn't stopped him from bringing in everything else. Everything except that so far but I don't think we're up to that timeframe yet.

MOO

 

[T-4-2]

All Juan has to do is make Doctor G read this portion of her 'journal' to the jury.

" Travis is dead. What happened?!? Travis, what is this?"

"Last night was so hard... I wanted so badly to call Travis, but knowing he wouldn't answer was too much to bear. And knowing he wasn't calling me anytime soon was just killing me. I broke down as I climbed into bed and just cried and cried and cried until I fell asleep."



That will totally invalidate all of the Bullchit they have been tediously plodding through all week long.

Nice pick. Knowing he wouldn't answer didn't seem to be a huge concern when she left her post-murder voicemail. And knowing he wasn't calling her anytime soon resulted in his death, not hers. She cried and cried and cried until she fell asleep? I guess she got it all out of her system that night.

At least Scarlett didn't stab Rhett 27 times, slash his throat, and shoot him in the face.

Hm... any chance Jodi saw the movie?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-OoIvgtuzs

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0031381/quotes

 

[gcharlie]

IMO, if the DT had taken this tack, sans villianizing of Travis, it would have been pretty effective. They could have pointed to the dysfunction of the relationship and point out how warped Jodi's mind was and how she couldn't deal with rationally. Juries usually have some mercy on those disturbed individuals who kill because of unrequited love, even if there's some level of premeditation involved.

The defense wants to say Jodi was writing these things because of how terribly Travis treated her. But it's obvious she was feeling these things whenever things weren't going well, or as well as she'd hoped (weren't going her way), with Travis. That's how borderlines work. They exacerbate others' actions, they perceive small things as slights or betrayals. Not putting her first on his MySpace friends sent her crying to the Hughes'. Travis not calling her back for two hours made her suicidal.

I just think if they'd have avoided making Travis the bad guy and Jodi the saint and stuck with a slimmer narrative they'd have been more successful. But there goes Jodi, shooting herself in the foot again.

I think if I were on this jury and all those lies about Travis hadn't come out I might have been able to spare her life. But when the pedophile stuff comes out, and the physical abuse (that's noticeably absent this time around) and just making every little thing seem like his fault, that speaks to a lack of remorse. She can say she's remorseful all she wants, but she obviously isn't. And there goes her mitigating factor. Remorse is an important thing to people.

Sorry if I've said this before. My sense is that Nurmi wanted to go the route of Arias being mentally disturbed, but Arias absolutely would not have it. She has to be the victim and she wants Travis to be seen as a monster. What we are left with is a hybrid.

Can you imagine how Arias would react if her own experts put forth a candid and honest psychological evaluation of her and her history? The stun gun might even have come into play. I just can't imagine her being able to contain her reactions to hearing some very negative, but true things about her as a person.

 

[Amster]

I wish there was some way for the Alexander family to do something about JSS. Her incompetence and obvious bias towards JA has allowed Travis to be portrayed as the defendant. It's cruel. She should be held accountable for what she has allowed to happen.

 

[gcharlie]

I think in a twisted way we are getting as close to the truth as we may ever get when it comes to the murderer. I think there has been pretty solid evidence presented (in both the trial and here) that JAA is personality disordered (BPD) with anti social tendencies along with hints of narcissism. The fact that several people in her inner circle thought she was Bipolar seems close to accurate in light of the fact that Bipolar and BPD can often be misdiagnosed- one for the other- as they have similarities that may overlap (thanks BritsKate).

The fact that she never got help for it seems to go along with her diagnosis, as well, but as we have wonderful posters who have been diagnosed BPD... that doesn't explain everything, especially the murder. Hence the sociopathy/psychopathy aspect.

She did NOT want the diagnosis in the first trial- not even the hint of it- which leads me to believe this is very close to the truth. Also, why the people who knew or cared about her were unable to get her to seek help.

My sister was diagnosed BPD and abruptly halted therapy and she is not a psychopath.

What really could have been done?

Even if Travis had sought a restraining order- we know how that goes- it never really stops anything and almost seems to escalate the violent behavior of perpetrators.

Sadly, I think she would have killed him- no matter what- and no one could have put her away before the fact.

It seems almost inevitable watching her all consuming obsession with Travis and anyone that had anything to do with him- too.

What was so different about Travis?

I think his personality attracted and repelled her all at the same time.

Her empty, false sense of self was magnified next to him- to the highest power imaginable. His joy for life, his magnetism, his determination and drive... his generosity and his humor. I really believe someone like Jodi is not able to find genuine humor- gut wrenching, belly laughing, wet your pants kind of humor- in anything.

Why would someone else's bright light extinguish anothers?

It wouldn't.

It would only make evident the fact that the other had no light within- to begin with.

Why the hell didn't she just kill her own, damn, sorry self? Because she HATED Travis- not because he didn't want her it was because having known him she came to the recognition that she was an empty, dark, black hole of a soul and he had figured it out too. There would be no lingering friendship for her, no well wishes for her future, no future manipulations by her. He was going to tell her secret to everyone- her family included- remember?

To all who would have ears to listen. The moment JAA knew that, her plan went in to action. It was inevitable. She had to snuff that life force out- the one she would never have herself. She didn't want to have Travis, she wanted to BE Travis.

I don't even think Travis would have followed through with his threats, I think he would have moved on and tried to forget her. I have no doubt that he would have been a more cautious person and maybe not so all forgiving.

Who knows what his life may have been. Sadly, I believe the day he crossed paths with her was the day the time started ticking down on the clock of his life.

She will always be the worst thing that ever happened to him... to many more people now, as well.

I look at the picture of her as a darling toddler with pigtails and wonder how does someone like her even come into being?

This made me cry.

RIP Travis

 

[Hatfield]

Sorry if I've said this before. My sense is that Nurmi wanted to go the route of Arias being mentally disturbed, but Arias absolutely would not have it. She has to be the victim and she wants Travis to be seen as a monster. What we are left with is a hybrid.

Can you imagine how Arias would react if her own experts put forth a candid and honest psychological evaluation of her and her history? The stun gun might even have come into play. I just can't imagine her being able to contain her reactions to hearing some very negative, but true things about her as a person.

Exactly. A good word for it. The "hybrid defense"

I hope the jury is seeing this as clearly as our WS posters.

 

[LambChop]

That hasn't stopped him from bringing in everything else. Everything except that so far but I don't think we're up to that timeframe yet.

MOO

But, then you have to think. Here she is going on and on about everything in their relationship, basically how much she worships him but she leaves that one little detail out. Could it be because at the time it was not relevant because it never happened. jmo

 

[Tuba]

Dr. Geffner seems to be moving through the relationship but more importantly, the instances of "physical abuse", chronologically. The grabbed wrist in the spring of 2007 then the shove in October 2007 which pushed her to her knees and the other three incidents she asserted yet to come. I don't remember Travis grabbing her wrist, which caused her pain.

 

[RickshawFan]

"cardinal" significance, not the more common "utmost" or "primary" ... and "more greatly than" (?) gold, rather than "greater than" gold ... I'd love to know how much time JA took over her ornately worded msgs. I bet far "more greatly" than average.

JA copied these phrases from something. I would venture to bet from one of the Mormon teachings. Maybe someone here knows? "...value more greatly" actually isn't incorrect grammatically, but it's very 19th century, as is the order of the words in that sentence, with "I value" in an archaic location. I used to grade college-level literature papers, and bad freshmen essays would sound like this, 'cos they'd imitate whatever they were reading. The language in this diary entry is very similar to the "whoredom" message to Lisa, which also must have been lifted from somewhere. It would be very like JA to copy......

 

[elementary]

I think in a twisted way we are getting as close to the truth as we may ever get when it comes to the murderer. I think there has been pretty solid evidence presented (in both the trial and here) that JAA is personality disordered (BPD) with anti social tendencies along with hints of narcissism. The fact that several people in her inner circle thought she was Bipolar seems close to accurate in light of the fact that Bipolar and BPD can often be misdiagnosed- one for the other- as they have similarities that may overlap (thanks BritsKate).

The fact that she never got help for it seems to go along with her diagnosis, as well, but as we have wonderful posters who have been diagnosed BPD... that doesn't explain everything, especially the murder. Hence the sociopathy/psychopathy aspect.

She did NOT want the diagnosis in the first trial- not even the hint of it- which leads me to believe this is very close to the truth. Also, why the people who knew or cared about her were unable to get her to seek help.

My sister was diagnosed BPD and abruptly halted therapy and she is not a psychopath.

What really could have been done?

Even if Travis had sought a restraining order- we know how that goes- it never really stops anything and almost seems to escalate the violent behavior of perpetrators.

Sadly, I think she would have killed him- no matter what- and no one could have put her away before the fact.

It seems almost inevitable watching her all consuming obsession with Travis and anyone that had anything to do with him- too.

What was so different about Travis?

I think his personality attracted and repelled her all at the same time.

Her empty, false sense of self was magnified next to him- to the highest power imaginable. His joy for life, his magnetism, his determination and drive... his generosity and his humor. I really believe someone like Jodi is not able to find genuine humor- gut wrenching, belly laughing, wet your pants kind of humor- in anything.

Why would someone else's bright light extinguish anothers?

It wouldn't.

It would only make evident the fact that the other had no light within- to begin with.

Why the hell didn't she just kill her own, damn, sorry self? Because she HATED Travis- not because he didn't want her it was because having known him she came to the recognition that she was an empty, dark, black hole of a soul and he had figured it out too. There would be no lingering friendship for her, no well wishes for her future, no future manipulations by her. He was going to tell her secret to everyone- her family included- remember?

To all who would have ears to listen. The moment JAA knew that, her plan went in to action. It was inevitable. She had to snuff that life force out- the one she would never have herself. She didn't want to have Travis, she wanted to BE Travis.

I don't even think Travis would have followed through with his threats, I think he would have moved on and tried to forget her. I have no doubt that he would have been a more cautious person and maybe not so all forgiving.

Who knows what his life may have been. Sadly, I believe the day he crossed paths with her was the day the time started ticking down on the clock of his life.

She will always be the worst thing that ever happened to him... to many more people now, as well.

I look at the picture of her as a darling toddler with pigtails and wonder how does someone like her even come into being?

IMO she's a psychopath. His living became an inconvenience to her. He also was willing to expose her and rejected her. To me it's that simple in guessing her motivation.

 

[Kamille]

But, then you have to think. Here she is going on and on about everything in their relationship, basically how much she worships him but she leaves that one little detail out. Could it be because at the time it was not relevant because it never happened. jmo

What I meant to convey is that Dr G has brought in every accusation that JA has made about TA whether or not she wrote about it in her journal. The journal just got pulled out this afternoon. And we know that she says she didn't write anything negative in there even though it happened. Except for that one time when TA made her rip the page out. *massive eyeroll*

But prior to the journal coming out, Dr G has freely told the jury about everything JA told the other jury in the original trial. It is being brought in as information that JA told HIM in their meetings and in information that was provided to him from the original trial I suppose.

A trial up here in Canada just wrapped up that I was following where the exact same thing happened. Only in that trial the defendant is claiming not criminally responsible due to mental illness. But the defendant's entire story was told via a couple of psychiatrists hired by the defense team. So the defendant could not be cross examined. Seems to be a common thing now since these "doctors" are willing to put their careers and reputations on the line for the big bucks that "expert" witnesses get. In fact, most of them consider "expert witness" their actual career. And all they are is people with no integrity, using the degrees that they worked hard for, to tell juries whatever the defense wants them to say for money.

MOO

 

[MeeBee]

What I meant to convey is that Dr G has brought in every accusation that JA has made about TA whether or not she wrote about it in her journal. The journal just got pulled out this afternoon. And we know that she says she didn't write anything negative in there even though it happened. Except for that one time when TA made her rip the page out. *massive eyeroll*

But prior to the journal coming out, Dr G has freely told the jury about everything JA told the other jury in the original trial. It is being brought in as information that JA told HIM in their meetings and in information that was provided to him from the original trial I suppose.

A trial up here in Canada just wrapped up that I was following where the exact same thing happened. Only in that trial the defendant is claiming not criminally responsible due to mental illness. But the defendant's entire story was told via a couple of psychiatrists hired by the defense team. So the defendant could not be cross examined. Seems to be a common thing now since these "doctors" are willing to put their careers and reputations on the line for the big bucks that "expert" witnesses get. In fact, most of them consider "expert witness" their actual career. And all they are is people with no integrity, using the degrees that they worked hard for, to tell juries whatever the defense wants them to say for money.

MOO

Luka Magnotta?

 

[angelrae]

I think in a twisted way we are getting as close to the truth as we may ever get when it comes to the murderer. I think there has been pretty solid evidence presented (in both the trial and here) that JAA is personality disordered (BPD) with anti social tendencies along with hints of narcissism. The fact that several people in her inner circle thought she was Bipolar seems close to accurate in light of the fact that Bipolar and BPD can often be misdiagnosed- one for the other- as they have similarities that may overlap (thanks BritsKate).

The fact that she never got help for it seems to go along with her diagnosis, as well, but as we have wonderful posters who have been diagnosed BPD... that doesn't explain everything, especially the murder. Hence the sociopathy/psychopathy aspect.

She did NOT want the diagnosis in the first trial- not even the hint of it- which leads me to believe this is very close to the truth. Also, why the people who knew or cared about her were unable to get her to seek help.

My sister was diagnosed BPD and abruptly halted therapy and she is not a psychopath.

What really could have been done?

Even if Travis had sought a restraining order- we know how that goes- it never really stops anything and almost seems to escalate the violent behavior of perpetrators.

Sadly, I think she would have killed him- no matter what- and no one could have put her away before the fact.

It seems almost inevitable watching her all consuming obsession with Travis and anyone that had anything to do with him- too.

What was so different about Travis?

I think his personality attracted and repelled her all at the same time.

Her empty, false sense of self was magnified next to him- to the highest power imaginable. His joy for life, his magnetism, his determination and drive... his generosity and his humor. I really believe someone like Jodi is not able to find genuine humor- gut wrenching, belly laughing, wet your pants kind of humor- in anything.

Why would someone else's bright light extinguish anothers?

It wouldn't.

It would only make evident the fact that the other had no light within- to begin with.

Why the hell didn't she just kill her own, damn, sorry self? Because she HATED Travis- not because he didn't want her it was because having known him she came to the recognition that she was an empty, dark, black hole of a soul and he had figured it out too. There would be no lingering friendship for her, no well wishes for her future, no future manipulations by her. He was going to tell her secret to everyone- her family included- remember?

To all who would have ears to listen. The moment JAA knew that, her plan went in to action. It was inevitable. She had to snuff that life force out- the one she would never have herself. She didn't want to have Travis, she wanted to BE Travis.

I don't even think Travis would have followed through with his threats, I think he would have moved on and tried to forget her. I have no doubt that he would have been a more cautious person and maybe not so all forgiving.

Who knows what his life may have been. Sadly, I believe the day he crossed paths with her was the day the time started ticking down on the clock of his life.

She will always be the worst thing that ever happened to him... to many more people now, as well.

I look at the picture of her as a darling toddler with pigtails and wonder how does someone like her even come into being?

I am sooo glad you said what I have been thinking all day. I just didn't know how to say it. She was envious of HIS life. What she wanted in life, she knew she could only get via another person. Travis was that person. She knew she was incapable of achieving that on her own. So when she knew she couldn't have that life through Travis, she wasn't going to let him have it either.

ETA - And by "life", I don't mean the life "style", I mean HIS life "force"

 

[Kamille]

Luka Magnotta?

Oui.

 

[MeeBee]

Oui.

Brief OT, me and my husband are pretty sure he was summoned for this jury but he had to get an exemption because he lives in Houston now, thought still listed as a resident in Montreal. Kind of crazy to think about.