Revisit - Did CA/GA cover up 7-16-08

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Oh, yes Jose has said a lot...there's a Zanny and there's even a picture of her that we have yet to see, but we just have to "trust" that it's there. Reminds me of when Cindy said "well I can't see God, but I believe he's there" in response to a reporter that asked if she had seen Zenaida. I'm not a trusting person I guess.

Jose is also "seeing evidence of his client's innocence everyday" ? Wow, I would love to see some of that "evidence". I know, I know, we'll have to wait for trial. I got it...talk a big game and hopefully by the time you go to trial everyone will have forgotten what you said a year or so prior. I know that Jose is going to "explain" everything at trial, he said this too. It beats me, because I have given much thought to all of Casey's actions, the 31 days, the decomp, the location of Caylee's remains and I can not think of one single explanation that says anything but...GUILTY.

ITA! If JB or anyone else had ANY evidence that pointed toward KC's innocence, they would be presenting it to the judge and the SA trying to get the charges dropped or at least a bond set. If there was ANY evidence that pointed towards KC's innocence, JB would be on GR every night talking about it and the travesty being done to his innocent client. If there was ANY evidence that pointed towards KC's innocence, CA & GA would be on every talk show that would have them "reaching out" to everyone to get KC released. Instead, we have JB making promises that he will show us the truth at trial and CA & GA blaming a nanny that no one, besides KC, has ever seen. :bang:
 
Well if they didn't enter the garage that night to check out the car they failed miserably.
Snipped from the 911 transcript:

CA "I just found her today, but I cant find my granddaughter.And she's just admitted to me that she's been trying to find her herself. Theres something wrong. I found my daughters car today, and it smells like theres been a dead body in the damn car".

So grandma is saying it smells like death, and they dont even check it out? They didnt need a search warrant to smell the car, for goodness sakes.They had already been invited into the house.
besides, lee said the smell was so overwhelming that it could even be smelt from outside the garage.
JMO

At the risk of being redundant, I think this has been covered many times on various threads. (Please see my post #80 on this thread, page 4) YM, the child neglect officer had already been dispatched to the house to investigate a missing child before the "dead body" 911 call came in and the entire content of the final call may not have been relayed to him, as he was on his way, but simply recorded and added later to the entire incident report complaint. I am sure that the dispatcher was reassuring CA during that call that someone was indeed on the way to look for her missing granddaughter.

When LE arrived, we do not know if the garage door was opened or closed or what the Anthonys told them about the odor in the car. We have seen CA many times since the incident angrily tell the media "it was pizza" or that she had only included that "dead body" phrase because she was desperate to get LE to respond quickly. We also know that GA told the FBI and LE in his interview about the tow manager finding the bag and telling an anxious GA that it was probably only the garbage that smelled up the trunk. I think the tow manager did that out of compassion to ease a worried grandfather. GA, as an ex-LE officer said in his interviews he immediately knew that smell was human decomp and we know he immediately knew his daughter was not missing (she was texting her mom) but that he had not seen Caylee in a month and his daughter had been extremely evasive about her whereabouts. IMO he knew he was driving home part of a crime scene - whether he suspected it was Caylee's body or from some other nefarious thing his daughter had done, as she had been lying about it and her whereabouts, and did it on purpose.

If GA and CA downplayed the smell that evening and told LE it was from the trash bag, it certainly did not stop LE from retrieving the bag of garbage that very night from Johnson's to test it. They already knew the trunk had been compromised or contaminated by GA and CA admitting they had removed and even cleaned some items from the trunk. Perhaps they were more concerned with eliminating CA's claim that her granddaughter was missing, giving KC the benefit of the doubt by driving all over Orlando looking for the Imaginanny, before they started considering it a cover up or a potential homicide.

It is clear that LE added a homicide detective to the group that was interviewing KC the next day when she was at Universal (whether due to the fact they had the complete report of their own actions and the transcripts of all the 911 calls) and that was the day they impounded the car, after they realized that the car smell was most likely directly connected to the "disappearance" of Caylee a month earlier. If they already knew the car had been compromised, there really was no real hurry to impound it initially, particularly until they had first exhausted all means to find little Caylee alive.

CA and GA both snidely criticized LE for not impounding the car earlier (as they also made much of the fact that LE did not issue an Amber Alert - which was patently ridiculous as a child not reported missing for a month and with no license plate to include in a report pretty much eliminates that as a reasonable search tool).

If LE suspected that the car had already been tampered with, that CA and GA were downplaying the smell as "garbage" or "pizza" - they may have realized there was no real hurry in impounding the vehicle then until they had proof from the garbage bag at Johnson's that the horrible smell could not be food and that CA's later insistence she had "exaggerated" the smell to expedite LE was not true.

I think LE may have realized very early on that the Anthonys were not being completely truthful with them on various levels and they played everything by the book. If they were being told the smell was simply "garbage", they made sure that very night to gather the evidence to see if it was true.

While LE may have done a few things a little differently then knowing what they know now the only oversight I think they made that night (and very innocently) was judging just how mendacious every member of that family could be and were. I am really amazed at how easy it is for people to pick apart the actions of LE, who probably would have done many things differently, if they had known they were dealing with a family Olympic Gold Medal Liars, instead of concentrating on the real culprits here. LE always has to walk a delicate line when investigating, and not jeopardize getting evidence by showing their hand too soon. If I hear other trained LE professionals criticize the actions of OCSO that evening, I'll consider paying attention to their comments, but at this point I just have to ignore those of us amateurs out here who are Monday morning quarterbacking LE's actions that night after many of us have come to our conclusions after almost a year of access to Sunshine Law evidence and doc dumps to pore through and analyze.
 
But he knew that smell, and knew it well from his line of work, and stated that it was similar to the smell of the suicide car, but not as overpowering. I think they were both relieved to see the trash,rather than a dead body, and both put the stench down to that.

I feel bad for the guy, and anyone else who has been dragged into this because of KC, but I dont agree that there should be one set of rules allowing mistakes like this for people outside the A family, and another set that makes any error or bad judgement by the A's a deliberate attempt to cover up for KC.

Even LE didnt seize the car immediately with the smell of decomposition, and declare there must have been a dead body in there at some point.
JMO

CA/GA/LA/KC do not have the right to deflect guilt upon others.

Bold is mine. LE didn't smell the car immediately. The Pontiac was parked in the garage and LA and KC were the only two in the garage. At that point and time no one was under arrest and LE had no search warrants. LE was looking for a 2 year missing child that according to the Mother the Nanny took. According to LA's statement the smell was so bad LA had to keep going back and forth in and out of the house. LE never entered the garage that night.IIRC.

Agreed to a point. We don't know what the working notes state, only what is in the released reports. This is something that I would like to read; their working notes.

Well if they didn't enter the garage that night to check out the car they failed miserably.
Snipped from the 911 transcript:

CA "I just found her today, but I cant find my granddaughter.And she's just admitted to me that she's been trying to find her herself. Theres something wrong. I found my daughters car today, and it smells like theres been a dead body in the damn car".

So grandma is saying it smells like death, and they dont even check it out? They didnt need a search warrant to smell the car, for goodness sakes.They had already been invited into the house.
besides, lee said the smell was so overwhelming that it could even be smelt from outside the garage.
JMO

bbm:

We don't know this as fact that LE did NOT enter the garage at some point in time. LE MUST have a search warrant to proceed in investigating. LE obtained a warrant for the car less than 12 hours later. Also LE was at the tow yard immediately while KC was being interviewed at the jail and retrieved the trash bag the tow yard guy tossed. So they were aware immediately of the decomp odor.
 
Well if they didn't enter the garage that night to check out the car they failed miserably.
Snipped from the 911 transcript:

CA "I just found her today, but I cant find my granddaughter.And she's just admitted to me that she's been trying to find her herself. Theres something wrong. I found my daughters car today, and it smells like theres been a dead body in the damn car".

So grandma is saying it smells like death, and they dont even check it out? They didnt need a search warrant to smell the car, for goodness sakes.They had already been invited into the house.
besides, lee said the smell was so overwhelming that it could even be smelt from outside the garage.
JMO


If they needed a warrent one cop could have stayed at the house right outside of the garage while the other went for a search warrent. They do that all of the time.
 
Didn't George and Cindy consent to LE taking the car, computers etc.? I thought I saw the signed forms somewhere in released discovery.
 
[/B]

Bold is mine. This is something that has always bothered me. CA called and admitted the car smelled like a dead body had been in the car. Why didn't LE check the car? If they would have checked it and smelt the odor, could some other action have taken place legally?
I feel certain if LE had been near the garage and smelled it that their investigation would have turned immediately.
Remember,CA reported the car stolen,but retrieved ,and she wanted her daughter arrested.This was a car they allowed KC to use.That makes a huge difference and it appeared to be a domestic dispute.I think LE honestly thought this was a family fight and KC was with holding Caylee from Cindy.
Who knows if the 911 call was relayed to LE as a smell of a dead body being in the car.Cindy's calls had escalated throughout the evening with wilder claims each time.They were true,but I suspect the dispatchers deal with this every day when LE doesn't respond as quickly as the reporter would like.Why didn't Cindy tell them about the smell on the first call? I realize it was because she just learned Caylee was missing,but the dispatcher may have been viewing it differently.
It wasn't until all of KC's statements were shown to be lies that LE knew they had a bigger issue on their hands.That's when KC and her car became more of the focus.JMHO
 
Didn't George and Cindy consent to LE taking the car, computers etc.? I thought I saw the signed forms somewhere in released discovery.

GA signed an affidavit to give custody of the HP tower computer and camera. He also signed another separate affidavit to release the car to LE for impound.
 
The bigger Elephant in the Room to me is why GA and CA didn't focus LE's attention to the car and the smell of a dead body as soon as they walked in the door. This was a huge attempt at a cover up IMO. And that's the point of this thread.
GA knew and in his statement talked about the smell at the towyard,so why didn't he insist LE check it out RIGHT AWAY!
CA speaks right up.If she frantically told the dispatcher of the smell,why not tell LE,RIGHT AWAY.
Because by the time LE arrived the family had decided to try and cover that part up.Eventually it had to come out because they knew the towyard guy would be questioned.MO
ETA If your car smelled that bad from trash in the trunk ,wouldn't you air it out outside? Yes,of course.But they were HIDING the car.
 
And another thing........LOL, I believe the reason GA was more forthcoming about KC's involvement in LE interviews was because he was former LE. He KNEW LE would find things out and he didn't want to appear to be a part of what happened to Caylee.
The A's knew they had to walk a fine line between telling what they knew while directing LE in other directions.
That didn't last very long,however,since CA decided LE tricked her by videotaping her and were now the enemy.
 
And another thing........LOL, I believe the reason GA was more forthcoming about KC's involvement in LE interviews was because he was former LE. He KNEW LE would find things out and he didn't want to appear to be a part of what happened to Caylee.
The A's knew they had to walk a fine line between telling what they knew while directing LE in other directions.
That didn't last very long,however,since CA decided LE tricked her by videotaping her and were now the enemy.

Oh you are so right on the money with that one! And I love how they tried to throw LE under the bus by involving the FBI right away - I believe THEY called the FBI in. Probably because they needed to legitimize the "kidnapping" story and LE just wasn't buying it. I always have to remind myself that the FBI interviews happened in late July and the ones we have on transcript from LE (at least GA's)are early August, IIRC.

GA tried to complain about how LE wasn't taking them seriously in his comments to FBI. He probably thought it would also create a turf war and muddle things up. I think he realized that the fact that LE had not bothered to do much more than take initial statements from himself and CA meant they did not trust their stories. I don't remember the date of CA's little voicemail monologue telling LE how to do their job and threatening to "go to the media" if certain people weren't looked into right away, but it just seems to me that LE had their number from the get-go.

Trying to throw a wrench into the investigation by assuming LE and FBI would be adversarial was one of the dumbest things CA and GA ever did. It made all of the forensic evidence that was sent to FBI labs, or any other portion of the investigation they conducted completely immune to Sunshine Laws in FL and may be why some really critical stuff has not yet been released to the media.
 
I believe they did attempt to cover up the truth. I don't believe for one moment they didn't know the truth the instant they smelled the decomp odor in Casey's car. They knew what Casey had done. As much as they didn't want to admit it to their hearts, they knew.

I'm sure many have said this, the true shame here is they didn't love Caylee enough to make her the highest priority when she went "missing". Everything became about protecting Casey. They knew Caylee was no longer alive. They suspended themselves in disbelief to an extent that I cannot fathom.

I'm not saying I wouldn't have an extremely difficult time had I found myself in the same situation. However, there is no way in hell I would hide, misdirect and thwart any LE investigation for my missing grandchild. Even if it meant one of my own children would go down. I would have to do everything right for my grandchild.

So, yes, I do believe they covered up big time. In more ways than I care to admit.
 
I still think we need to remember that even though GA knew the smell of human decomposition, the smell of animal decomposition is very similar. That is the reason we have cadaver dogs and the testing facilities like the body farm. The human nose cannot differentiate between the odors other than by intensity. The trunk is a very small confined area and a decomposing animal in there could produce a strong odor. Jonathon Hayes, the senior forensic pathologist at the New York Medical Examiners Office has stated that the smells are quite similar. I am not by any means defending their position of not taking LE out to the car right away, but in defense of the tow yard guy, he had no idea if a dead animal could have been in there.

The reason I am, personally, so sure of the smell similarities is twofold. When we bought our house, the roof was bad and in a tiny side room we found at least five dead squirrels. The smell was overwhelmingly pungent from decomp. I also grew up in a funeral home and there were several times my father dealt with
decomposing bodies found days after death. It was because of this memory
from childhood that I immediately could smell death in our home. However, I knew there was no dead human there and the squirrels were the source of the smell. I am merely stating that GA and the tow yard guy could not know
for sure that there was a dead human being in that trunk at one time. Yes,
the tests answered that question, but at the initial discovery, I don't think
GA's mind continued to picture a dead Caylee or KC after the trunk was opened and nothing was evident. After all, they had been talking to KC regularly. He was probably relieved that nothing was in there and then he was more angry than worried.
 
I still think we need to remember that even though GA knew the smell of human decomposition, the smell of animal decomposition is very similar. That is the reason we have cadaver dogs and the testing facilities like the body farm. The human nose cannot differentiate between the odors other than by intensity. The trunk is a very small confined area and a decomposing animal in there could produce a strong odor. Jonathon Hayes, the senior forensic pathologist at the New York Medical Examiners Office has stated that the smells are quite similar. I am not by any means defending their position of not taking LE out to the car right away, but in defense of the tow yard guy, he had no idea if a dead animal could have been in there.

The reason I am, personally, so sure of the smell similarities is twofold. When we bought our house, the roof was bad and in a tiny side room we found at least five dead squirrels. The smell was overwhelmingly pungent from decomp. I also grew up in a funeral home and there were several times my father dealt with
decomposing bodies found days after death. It was because of this memory
from childhood that I immediately could smell death in our home. However, I knew there was no dead human there and the squirrels were the source of the smell. I am merely stating that GA and the tow yard guy could not know
for sure that there was a dead human being in that trunk at one time. Yes,
the tests answered that question, but at the initial discovery, I don't think
GA's mind continued to picture a dead Caylee or KC after the trunk was opened and nothing was evident. After all, they had been talking to KC regularly. He was probably relieved that nothing was in there and then he was more angry than worried.

But when GA got home that evening,shortly before LE arrived,he heard the story that Caylee had been missing for 31 days and KC hadn't told anyone.
I give a pass to the towyard guy,but GA-no way. He had to suspect the smell was Caylee.
 
But when GA got home that evening,shortly before LE arrived,he heard the story that Caylee had been missing for 31 days and KC hadn't told anyone.
I give a pass to the towyard guy,but GA-no way. He had to suspect the smell was Caylee.

Yes, by that time I agree. LE arrived shortly after that and he told them about the smell, etc at the interview. Picturing the scene at home with all of the clan trying to talk at once and arguing, GA probably didn't get a word in edgewise. Not sure, since I've never been part of a police interview, but I would guess the police were asking a lot of questions on a description of Caylee and ZG, etc. That seems the logical first step anyway. The car should have been brought up by LE and examined right away.

I simply meant that between the tow yard time and leaving for work, he really didn't know. Once he returned home, then he found out Caylee was missing. I just don't think he was doing a cover up before he knew she was missing.
 
What I don't get is why C & G wouldn't have called LE immediately upon finding the car. Nevermind the smell. They are presented with kc's car that had been towed. They don't know where kc and Caylee are. CA texted kc (I believe twice) and didn't get a response. Wouldn't that be the point when a parent would panic and call LE? Abandoned car, no sign of kc or Caylee? But, instead, GA goes back to work, CA does whatever she did through the afternoon and then tracked down AH that evening to go to kc. That's a huge red flag to me already, but then when you do throw the smell of death they all smelled . . . . there's definitely a reason C & G didn't call LE right away.
 
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68134"]Decomp smell - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
 
Yes, by that time I agree. LE arrived shortly after that and he told them about the smell, etc at the interview. Picturing the scene at home with all of the clan trying to talk at once and arguing, GA probably didn't get a word in edgewise. Not sure, since I've never been part of a police interview, but I would guess the police were asking a lot of questions on a description of Caylee and ZG, etc. That seems the logical first step anyway. The car should have been brought up by LE and examined right away.

I simply meant that between the tow yard time and leaving for work, he really didn't know. Once he returned home, then he found out Caylee was missing. I just don't think he was doing a cover up before he knew she was missing.


BBM --

In all reality, however, Caylee had been missing from G & C for 31 days. When he smelled the smell of death and put that with the fact kc hadn't let them see or talk to Caylee for over a month, he had to know.
 
As time goes by, the A's actions following/in response to the tragic loss of their granddaughter look worse and worse to most of us. Their strange and, at times, inexplicable, behavior and statements have led many to believe they are covering up for KC. However, my question is specifically for those WS'ers who believe that George and Cindy have been covering for KC ever since the they got the car back and smelled the decomp. IOW, BEFORE the 911 call.

While it is looking more and more as if the A's did perhaps enter "coverup mode" at some point in time, it does not make sense to me that CA would have called 911 that had she known KC had killed Caylee - - - If she wanted to protect/coverup for KC that is . . . I mean, why get LE involved? Wouldn't it have been so much easier just to keep it quiet and maybe help KC to disappear/go away for a while. Perhaps till they could come up with a plan/alibi. No one else knew the poor baby was missing.

So why do you think she called 911? What was the purpose of the call/s?

[I hope my question sounds sincere because it is. I've wondered about this for a long time now - this is my first thread however :) - and I would really like to know what folks believe/theorize about this.

If Cindy knew, and was covering up/getting rid of evidence (via the cleaned trunk, washed pants, removed knife, etc.), why did she call 911 at all?

Thanks in advance guys.
 
Early on, didn't she say to Lee or George to come home "Casey is in trouble." Wouldn't that tell us, knowing what we know now about how CA covers everything for CA, that she was in coverup mode even then?
 
I think calling 911 was the only genuine, honest thing she's done this whole time.
 
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