Russian passenger plane crashes in Sinai, Egypt Prime Minister says, 31 OCT 2015

[Isabelle]

CNN asking what the White House has to say about the theory that a bomb was on the plane. I want to know what Russia has to say about this. Starting to sound quite credible. Will Russia deny this possibility?

 

[CARIIS]

CNN asking what the White House has to say about the theory that a bomb was on the plane. I want to know what Russia has to say about this. Starting to sound quite credible. Will Russia deny this possibility?

yeh it is but I was kinda hoping the shrapnel stuff was to the front folks that would make it more for sure bomb , if the tail fell off cause of tailstrike those folks would have sharpnel, but since it is all breaking so fast - it seems like they wil have bomb residue in that part of the plane

but it still does not explain the tail -- the tail looks much much more like a strutureal issue as oppossed to being blown off - it pretty much a clean break just like (i visualize ) it looks like the top started to rip off more than the bottom whhich makes sense in struckure break!

I dont know why they do not definatly state , we found exlosive resdue in the rear of the plane- done deal. Pan Am Lockerbie was a much bigger aircraft - much.

The "unusual" sounds reported on CVR are much more congruent with a structurAL event (think creeky door)as oppossed to bang.

Moreover, the fact that the recorder, recorded "unusual" sound indicates it remained working - they are in the rear, a bomb that blows off the tail woudl result in recording just stopping instantly, a little bomb??

YOu know what a little bomb actually sounds somewhat congruent . They can tell over time- how many passengers had shrapnel in them-8 or 90 it seems like that would tell us size of intially blast ?

I am going nuts here - then I think well there would be "metal" in some people while an aircraft is disintergrating around you due to the tail falling off. Gotta be up to residue

These just dont look "bomby"! There even nice and shiny for a crash.

Bomb in baggage area? This would make it, if bomb, it was carried on no? The bags look MUCh more like falling as oppossed to be blown out by a bomb no?

Black box, is in rear --no charring ? Again pretty pristine even for plane crash?

Rear passengers are where they are saying shrapnel - look at the break here nothing with fire And it does break like structural - not like it was ejected off at high speed- it looks like a creaking rip if that makes sense ?

its actually bizaire even if we go back to tailstrike - looks like intense fire at wing box but :

 

[CARIIS]

not sure what you mean by this?
The report was covered here by all media - tv, press, radio, internet - quite thoroughly including live televised event of the report's findings.

I am "newsy" and love aviation - I never saw one thing!

 

[Isabelle]

Does anyone know whether this Russian carrier has continued to fly this route since the crash? Thanks

 

[DanceCard]

I am "newsy" and love aviation - I never saw one thing!

Well, that's very surprising, but if it's the case that there was no media attention, maybe something else was going on in the US at the same time that was more newsworthy, or of more interest to an American audience?

It was just a couple of weeks ago.


So anyway, I just Googled 'MH17 report' and here are some links from the top 5 hits. It was also on our news channels as the officials presented their findings. Vid may be on you tube.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34511973

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28357880

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...isaster-in-ukraine-live-updates-a6691996.html

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...orts-were-made-to-cover-up-causes-of-disaster

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d644ddd6-718c-11e5-9b9e-690fdae72044.html

those are all MSM here in England.

 

[DanceCard]

Ok well I need to sleep, 1.45am here.

TV seems to be 99.9% that there was a bomb.

My hinky meter is going off when I think about the aft galley and lav in the rear section of the plane, and persons who would have had access to it pre-flight.
But I'll try to keep an open mind until there's a definitive statement from officials.

 

[CARIIS]

This is from 7 months ago -stunning-there is clearly a large crack right where it came off......................I do not blame the copilot for not wanting to fly the thing!

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/video/fragments-airbus-found-over-30km-183502622.html

keep watching 1:57 sideways angle - "perfect " fit

Tid bits - many!

I tried to get fonts all the same but I was on a lots of pages - not tired yet !

preliminary tests on bodies recovered from the crash site have not revealed any traces of explosives....Russian source inside the centre carrying out forensic tests on the remains.

plane's voice recorder was damaged in the crash, preventing it from being analysed, according to a spokesman for the German Federal Bureau of Aircraft Accident Investigation.

Downing Steet said it could not say "categorically" why the Russian jet had crashed.

The suspension of flights is a further blow to Egypt's troubled tourism industry, which has suffered in the unrest that followed the 2011 Arab Spring

there may be political and commercial motives behind the British statement.

Does this look like a bomb just exploded?

Russian cargo plane just crashed overlaoded 40 dead

Those with holidays booked within the next 48 hours to Sharm el Sheikh are advised to contact their travel company to discuss their options. If you have booked a package you will be entitled to a refund or alternative holiday.

arrangements for any customers due to return home tomorrow to remain in their accommodation free of charge. (UK)

US airlines don't operate out of the Sharm el Sheikh region.

foreign minister attacking the British move as "premature and unwarranted"

Passengers on the ground will be returned to the UK. We are working with the Egyptian authorities to put in place additional security and screening (at the airport)

We will not allow any British bound aircraft to leave Sharm el Sheikh airport until we are confident it and its passengers are secure.

possibly a checked bag was interfered with and the device put inside that, alternatively in cargo or member of staff took it onto the aircraft in guise of cleaning or something similar.

Sky news reporting Russian news as saying those in front died from blunt force while those in the back from burns and blast trauma.......

Cnn said that the reason the saying it might have been an employee is because the passengers "checked out" -whatever that means!

tenth Airbus crash in as many years:

2015: Germanwings A320Crashed in the French Alps. The German co-pilot deliberately crashed the plane, investigators said. Fatalities: 150
2014: AirAsia A320Crashed in Indonesia in December 2014. Fatalities: 162
2010: Airblue A321Crashed in the Margalla Hills near the Pakistani capital Islamabad in July 2010. Fatalities: 152
2010: Al Afriqiyah A330Crashed at Tripoli airport. Fatalities: 103. Survivors: One 9-year-old boy
2009: Yemenia A310Crashed in the Indian Ocean, minutes before it was due to land. Fatalities: 152. Survivors: One 14-year-old girl
2009: Air France A330Crashed in the Atlantic during a flight from Rio de Janeiro to Paris. Fatalities: 228
2007: TAM A320Crashed into a warehouse at Sao Paulo airport. Fatalities: 199
2006: Russian A310Crashed while trying to land in the city of Irkutsk in Siberia. Fatalities: 140
2006: Armavia A320Crashed in Sochi, Russia in May 2006. Fatalities: 125

Tommorrows front pages:
http://news.sky.com/gallery/1581950/thursdays-newspaper-front-pages

20,000 Britains stranded

Jim Hall, a former chairman of the US National Transportation Safety Board, said that enough time has transpired for Egyptian and Russian investigators to determine what took down the plane, but in his experience Egyptian investigators were "very reluctant to suggest anything that is not approved at the highest levels of the Egyptian government."

He said the anonymous statements of intelligence officials to US media indicate that the US does not trust the Egyptian investigation.
"I don't think we would have seen these reports today out of US intelligence if they felt the Egyptians would have made that information public themselves."

...much of the analysis is taking place in Moscow,"Since Glasnost the Russian investigation agency has been very transparent and very forthcoming. But it appears that under President Putin's leadership, that may have changed


....Hammond says of Egyptian foreign minister who has criticised UK moves on #metrojet: 'He hasn't seen all the information that we have.'

Cameron's announcement will infuriate Putin......represent a significant blow to his prestige.

temporary suspension will remain in place "for the forseeable future" until security at the airport is improved.

Tourist I must say that to be honest, the security at the airport leaves much to be desired. Last time we travelled circa 2 years ago there was 1 baggage scan with a nonplussed security guard and 1 metal detector for all passengers.

Kind of strange as I am cruising around foreign media most of them are presenting it as US Intel are the ones who have stated it was a bomb. Over here it is playing out differently focusing on Britain claiming it - very interesting !

worst aviation disaster in Russian history has massive implications for the Russian government and the public.Putin and his advisors will have to think hard about how to respond.

Intercepted communications played a role in the tentative conclusion that the Islamic State group's Sinai affiliate planted an explosive device on the plane

Pollsters say Russian public support for the Syrian adventure, though high, is fragile.

If Isil’s claims of responsibility turn out to be genuine, it may actually boost public support for Mr Putin’s war in Syria .his government will come under massive pressure to respond, forcefully and visibly, against the perpetrators

Ireland suspends flights

two Easy Jet planes stuck on the tarmac

"No one really knows what to think," said Aaron Thurgood, whose family owns a British pub in the resort town. "The streets are full and people aren't worried but no one really knows what's going on."



"No obvious security presence, with some late half measures at the gate with random checks and pat downs that were half done,"

the Prime Minister last night called President Sisi.

people sent out to review the security arrangements at the airport. When that review is completed we will allow the flights there to depart.".With David Cameron set to meet Egyptian President Sisi tomorrow...arrives in London......suspect Mr al-Sisi will see it as an act of betrayal by a country he regards as once having been a loyal ally.

tour operator, which is legally obliged to get them home.

Egyptian investigation of the black boxes has said that the cause of the crash is looking more like an explosion - but it is unclear if it was caused by fuel or a bomb

studying sand from the plane crash site for signs of a bomb attack

Egyptian newspaper, that "the cause of the crash is an explosion at the engine.
The plane may have crashed after an engine malfunction sent components slamming into the side of the fuselage, Egyptian press have reported. The presence of a powerful explosion, simultaneous loss of all engine power, a fire in part of the fuselage and the destruction of part of the plane in the air,




a massive explosion inside the jet from a spark in the fuel tanks or a rapid fire of something in the cargo hold.
Egyptian doctor: many bodies seriously charred.Around 25 of the bodies he looked at had suffered serious burns.examining about half of the 224 bodies....most of the burns were ante-mortem i.e. had been suffered before death....suggests that a fire broke out in the cabin


security procedures at the entrance of the airport there have been stepped up

Policemen with bulletproof vests were checking cars entering from outside.

Sharm El-Sheikh sees the greatest number of tourists from Russia, followed by the UK - of whom 900,000 visit the resort every year.

mid afternoon 44 of the 224 victims had been formally identified,

The Egyptian government is not happy with the US Embassy in Cairo after the Americans let it be known they were banning their diplomats from traveling

it seems there isn't much of a downside for Isil to take credit even if their claims are later shown to be nonsense.

terrorists said 3'47'' audio to claim again responsibility for the disaster "It was us, die in your rage" ............"We are under no obligation to explain how it came down," the voice says................"Bring the wreckage and search it, bring your black boxes and analyse them, and tell us the results of your investigation........: "Prove that we didn't bring it down, and how it came down. We will detail how it came down at the time of our choosing......It also says that the group will release proof for their claim in their own time..........group claimed that the plane was brought down on the 17th day of the month of Muharram in the Muslim lunar calendar.......

mixed messages from Egypt and Russia last night, with the Egyptians saying that the search at the site is over and the Russian recovery mission saying they will continue to comb the area.

Emergency ministry workers assisted by drones will search "every metre"

...cockpit recorder had picked up sounds of chaos in the flight’s final moments.

Metrojet flights to and from Moscow and Nijni Novgorod continued
Officials have said it could take weeks to fully identify all 244 victims,

intelligence analysts don't believe the operation was ordered by Islamic State leaders in Raqqa, Syria. Rather, they believe that if it was a bomb, it was planned and executed by the Islamic State's affiliate in the Sinai...

New video shot two hours after crash:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11976417/Russian-plane-crash-Video-of-immediate-aftermath-emerges.html


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...e-crash-latest-news.html#update-20151105-2108
http://news.sky.com/watch-live
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11974107/Russian-plane-crash-latest-news.html#update-20151105-2108

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/11/04/world/europe/ap-egypt-russian-plane-crash.html?_r=0Cnn Sky/ News

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11974343/Russian-plane-crash-in-Sinai-aerial-drone-footage-of-crash-site.html

 

[Momoffourboys]

Cariis, fwiw, this does not look "bomby" to me either.

Russia is loving all this bomb stuff! They're in CYA mode.

 

[trigger]

Video of plane crash on Abc David Muir nightly show

http://abcnews.go.com/wn?utm_conten...uir&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=guptamedia

Or


http://abcnews.go.com/US/sinai-flig...cerns-russian-jet/story?id=34967397&source=wn

 

[trigger]

Now another video is released- 2 hours after the crash.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...11974107/Russian-plane-crash-latest-news.html

 

[Hatfield]

This will be huge news and change everything for world carriers if this ends up being a bomb. We thought airlines had procedures in place to stop them. We need a report to be an accurate report one way or another. It seems they had enough time to tell by now. Seems they should have been able to do chemical analysis for bomb chemicles by now. Wonder why its taking so long to confirm bomb or not.

How hard could it be to test for chemicles of bomb residue. Doesn't sound all that hard. If a bomb then surely should be trace of chemicles by now.

 

[CARIIS]

Cariis, fwiw, this does not look "bomby" to me either.

Russia is loving all this bomb stuff! They're in CYA mode.

Hi Hat Mom and Tigger

I just freaked when I saw the crack, and it aint no small crack - how on earth could anyone, pretend like they did not notice - especially on a plane that is at 50000 hours in the wide blew yonder, isn't a spring chicken, while appearring to be doing relatily short segments, up and down, are hard on rivits, (compared to long haul) and had been in a wreck that took a quarter of a year to repair , talk about lack of a concious oh lord

I thinkin someplaces it could be criminal, Maybe

Anyone know how to make that close up shot in the video into a still and enlarge, I dont- but there are lots of smart folks here !!

 

[Mollyandme]

I probably shouldn't have clicked this thread as I have an extreme phobia of flying. Just wanted to say that I witnessed a plane and helicopter crash in the front and back fields of my elementary school during recess. First we heard a bang, and then it looked like fireballs dropping out of the sky. There was no bomb involved, and from what my brain allows me to remember after all these years, the plane and helicopter were in much worse shape than the images I have seen on here of the Russian plane. I seriously wonder if there's some kind of new bomb or something developed that will take down an aircraft but not in the obvious manner of a bomb...ugh. I don't know why I read this stuff. Prayers for the 244 souls who lost their lives. I hope they didn't suffer.

 

[Meryl12]

Here is the picture of the tail section of the aircraft.

 

[DanceCard]

I seriously wonder if there's some kind of new bomb or something developed that will take down an aircraft but not in the obvious manner of a bomb....

RSBM

*If* this was a bomb, this is something I've been thinking about a lot.

I worked in civil aviation for 30 years.
Over that time, the terrorists changed their methods, as the security measures were changed to try to prevent them doing the same thing again.
Time and time again there have been new ways to bring down an aircraft, which either intelligence has picked up on it before it was implemented by the terrorists, or the terrorists achieved their aims, and security procedures were changed as a result.

So, maybe this was a bomb, maybe it wasn't. If it was a bomb, maybe it was a type we're familiar with, but I do think it could be something new. Different method, same result.

 

[jslk]

Why were they satisfied prior to this catastrophe? They didn't know better.

Re security measures at Sharm.

Someone I know who has travelled there extensively and recently said that actually the security is already quite high, in terms of scanning of passengers, searches of luggage etc.

The person quoted up thread as saying security is lax at Sharm seems to be outdated in terms of current procedures.

 

[jslk]

Sharm is very very popular with British tourists, btw. It's within a relatively short flight time and provides an opportunity for autumn sunshine. I'd say Brits and Russian tourists are probably the most common.

 

[CARIIS]

Here is the picture of the tail section of the aircraft.

Does anyone know how to blow up ths pic? like big!There are like no fluid (oil) , so I would think it reasonaable to conclude that the staining is rust

 

[Momoffourboys]

http://mashable.com/2015/11/05/egypt-russia-metrojet-bomb/#aGBZ87JUamqG

Egypt and Russia deny Metrojet bomb

Egypt and Russia are denying claims that a bomb caused a Metrojet passenger plane to crash over the weekend, saying the information that the UK and U.S. revealed on Wednesday was premature.

British Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond said there was a "significant possibility" the crash was caused by a bomb in a statement made Wednesday. The country immediately suspended flights to and from Sharm el-Sheikh, the Red Sea resort where the flight originated, stranding hundreds of tourists in Egypt.

Kremlin press secretary Dmitry Peskov called the theories "unverified information" and "conjectures."

Same report:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia-and-egypt-deny-metrojet-bomb-claims/vp-BBmSbVr

 

[Isabelle]

Am still curious as to whether the airline who's plane crashed is still flying passengers into and out of that route?