Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #8

[Hope4More]

Just on the driving time between Mesa & Kingman (does vary depending on route taken):

I dipped back into the thread that includes my trip out there & the group sleuthing (July 2016).

It took me about 4 hours to drive from Mesa to Kingman (12:30PM- 4:20PM), on a weekend day.

I'm pretty sure I subtracted the time of my brief pit stops for iced drinks along the way, but I know I didn't subtract the time I spent stuck in bumper to bumper traffic (on 60, iirc) on a section of road leaving the Phoenix area she would have known to avoid.

The roads & speed limits are fast once one escapes the Phoenix area, and from my experience that day (and from driving literally many thousands of miles on road trips through AZ, New Mexico, and Utah), only a small minority of drivers observe the speed limit on major routes (I'm not typically in that minority, lol), and many drivers, especially after dark, speed along at 10 plus mph over the limit. For a good bit of the way from past-Phoenix to Kingman, that translates into going an average of 75-80 miles an hour.

The road from Kingman to Hoover Dam at the time she drove it (I'd guess it was approximately 10PMish when she flew past Kingman) would have been very sparsely travelled, easy & fast to drive, and no reason to worry about being pulled over by LE (too far out in the middle of nowhere to be worth their while to lay in wait for an occasional car to whizz by).

Adding- the best evidence that the timeline is accurate is that the desperate enough to call Ryan while she was still in Arizona.

 

[geevee]

Available time slot for murder:
7 am - 2pm

I eliminated all other times. See below. Advice.

-Known computer activity :
~4am - 4:30 am- youtube videos, email, blog
2:44 pm (spybot)
3:34 pm, 4:19 pm, 4:54 pm. -Detective's testimony
(geevee, detetive Brown testified that T's computer was set to Pacific Standard time, so the time on computer equals Arizona time.)

Not available for murder:
4-5 am computer usage
5-6 am Roommate home
6-7 am Roommate home

2-3 pm: computer usage
3-4 pm: computer usage
4-5 pm: computer usage
5-6 pm : According to Ryan's testimony, he received a call from around 10:30 pm and they spoke for 30min to an hour. He said she may have called back one more time and they spoke some more. He is in Utah so is calling him at 9:30 pm Arizona time.

Detective Gladysh placed the location of the caller at 45 miles north of Kingman, which is about 27 miles south of the Nevada border.
(Caveat: That is where called Travis. I'm going to assume she called Ryan at this spot for calculation below. testified she called Ryan, Leslie, and Travis after passing Hoover Dam. I don't know why she lied. Maybe she didn't want police to look for any evidence she threw out in the Kingman area. JM revealed during cross that she also attempted to call MM and Brewer.)

So, From 11428 E Queensborough Ave Mesa to Kingman during rush hour takes at least 4 hours. Add about 40 min to drive 45 miles more.

5:30 pm murder photo + at least 30 min clean up time (I'm being generous. I think it took longer)+ 4 hours 40 min driving time = 10:40 pm (Arizona time) is the earliest time she could have called Ryan. Time in Utah= 11:40 pm

Murder at 5:30 pm is not possible.

I think by 4:54 pm (last computer usage), She was all cleaned up and ready to go and left immediately after 4:54 pm.

But wouldn't Pacific Standard Time be an hour earlier than AZ Standard Time (all year, since AZ does not do Daylight Saving Time)? I thought that's what JM was trying to get across to "Mr. Smith" during the hard drive hearing and the first mention of the Spybot file going off.

In any case, nice work Pocket, I too don't think she had enough time to clean up, wash clothes and get out of there before Enrique got home. I also think the camera was set on PST, giving her the extra hour she needed.

 

[pocketaccent]

But wouldn't Pacific Standard Time be an hour earlier than AZ Standard Time (all year, since AZ does not do Daylight Saving Time)? I thought that's what JM was trying to get across to "Mr. Smith" during the hard drive hearing and the first mention of the Spybot file going off.

In any case, nice work Pocket, I too don't think she had enough time to clean up, wash clothes and get out of there before Enrique got home. I also think the camera was set on PST, giving her the extra hour she needed.

Arizona's time zone is Mountain Standard Time but AZ doesn't observe Daylight Savings Time from March to November.

Therefore,
Spring/Summer: Arizona time = Pacific Daylight Time (California)
Fall/Winter: Arizona time = Mountain Standard Time

The time on Travis' laptop was set to PST and changed automatically according to Detective Brown so, the time on his laptop was always wrong for half the year.

It's very confusing. In any case, in June, whatever time on T's computer is Arizona time.

I think it was Neumiester who got confused during cross with JM. So JM suggested 2:44pm must be 1:44 then. But it wasn't true. I don't remember which video though.

 

[TrialWatcher]

The discussions around timestamps and photographs frustrate me because the court evidence is very strong and all of the arguments have been rebutted by facts. TexMex (I miss his contribution. Is he ok?) and others countered every point, if memory serves me correctly. The expert witnesses explained points of confusion around the camera. The jury believed they had sex on the day and the camera evidence suggests a sexual encounter. It wasn't a still life art study being set up.

Both juries and Travis' family went with the court evidence on these matters. This has been discussed in huge detail on the forum. If anyone has new theories or actual evidence, please bring them forward.

Same with the points on sex. It is simply common sense to conclude that a sexual encounter took place that day presented with all of the evidence. Has there ever been a murder with more sexually suggestive photographic evidence? If the photographic evidence was wrong. it would be very easy to have proven this. If photos had been placed by Arias (from another time) it would have given her a partially strong alibi. Let's not forget that Juan Martinez clearly stated in his book that the strength of the photographic evidence placed Arias there that day and allowed him to charge her.

Are some sleuthers on WS trying to make a case for her release? I say this in jest. I appreciate that people become attached to theories. Yet, for me, WS is about matching evidence to theories. Without that, it is mere opinion. Finally, I would add that disagreeing over these points does not mean that I disrespect or dismiss other points from individual posters. I have learnt so much from this forum by considering every possibility and theory. I always come back to the evidence though.

 

[TrialWatcher]

I don't believe any of what she said about the day either, but I also don't believe she was capable of sleep after she reached his house. I think kid in a candy store excitement: his phones, computer, and journal to snoop, and a murder plan she needed to put in motion, perhaps including precautions & locating items & checking on roommates....so much to do.

Pretty much everything she said that day I am suspicious of. The photographic evidence and timings of the sexual encounter and murder, I believe.

Even seconds before the murder, there is so little to go on. I am intrigued by Juan Martinez' concession (around the eye-iris photos) that Arias was not holding a knife at when photographing Travis in the shower. Technically, I see why he did this but it leaves so much open. Travis did not look comfortable or willing in those poses. That haunted look in his eye (when he was staring at the camera) will haunt me forever.

 

[Hope4More]

But wouldn't Pacific Standard Time be an hour earlier than AZ Standard Time (all year, since AZ does not do Daylight Saving Time)? I thought that's what JM was trying to get across to "Mr. Smith" during the hard drive hearing and the first mention of the Spybot file going off.

In any case, nice work Pocket, I too don't think she had enough time to clean up, wash clothes and get out of there before Enrique got home. I also think the camera was set on PST, giving her the extra hour she needed.

IF TA’S CAMERA WAS ON PST, SO OFF BY ONE HOUR (ONE HOUR “EARLIER”) June 3 into and on June 4.
--------------------------------

2:02AM. Last text of TA’s day (June 3rd) sent by TA, to Maria.

4:30AM. (Simplified timeframe for the last use of TA’s computer of June 3rd into the wee hours of the 4th; the viewing of Daft Punk, etc).

5:53AM. Text from Brooke. Marked as read.

6:55AM. Text from Maria. Marked as read.

10:51AM. Text from Chris Hughes, marked as read, a general PPL-related broadcast text (urgent!) advising PPL team leaders to be sure their teams have tickets to a Mark Smith endorsed success seminar.

12:13PM. Last outgoing text from TA’s phone, a reply to Chris. “Did you buy me one???”


12:20-12:47PM. Timestamps on naked photos.


(No known evidence, whether disputed after trial or not exists about what took place between 12:47PM-3:34PM.


2:44PM . (Spybot -automatic scan, doesn’t indicate anyone was using the computer).

2:52PM. Text from Regan. Marked as read.

3:00PM. (approximately). Zach returns, stays for an hour. He typically parked in the driveway, and had just picked up his car from being repaired. It is unknown whether he entered the house through the front door or by going through the garage.

(If the wasn’t in the house between 3-4, but was watching the house, she would have known when Zach left)

Zach doesn’t hear or see Travis (or the ), doesn’t see an unfamiliar car parked in the driveway or garage (if he went through the garage on his way in or out).


He told Flores that when he returned around 3PM, he noticed the tile cleaner was out/furniture put up on the living room couch. He doesn’t mention seeing the doggie gates up.


3:34PM. Activity on computer. (Is it known what kind of activity? Don't remember.).

4:00PM. Approximate time Zach left.


4:00PM. Text from N/A11. Marked as read. “ Hey Travis. I am moving out there and I was wondering if you have any rooms available and if not if you know of somewhere I could rent. “

4:19 PM. Activity on computer. (Is it known what kind of activity? Don't remember).

4:22-4:32PM. Shower photos; TA is clean-shaven; he’s either just shaven or did so earlier in the day. If he shaved just before taking this afternoon shower, he would have been upstairs for at least 5 minutes or so before the first time- stamped shower photo. Time enough for the , with or without his knowledge, to have been in the house and (without his knowledge, I imagine), on his computer at 4:19.


The last photo indicates she is in already in the process of dragging him down that (short) hallway to the shower.


22 minutes pass between the last photo taken and the final activity on TA’s computer.


Based solely on the evidence, no speculation, we know this is what she did after killing Travis and before she left the house (not taking sequence of actions into account): shot Travis; put Travis in the shower stall; threw water on the tile hallway floor; wiped off some blood evidence on the hallway walls and mopped up/blotted some of the slit-throat blood pool (doesn’t matter why, could have been a quick attempt to alter the crime scene, not to clean it up per se); took a shower with TA’s body in the shower stall; gathered up TA’s clothes, her own bloody clothes, towels, and the camera, took the bundle downstairs into the laundry room, put the bundle in washing machine (she may or may not have first transferred already washed bedding into the dryer); deleted photos from his camera; put bleach into the washer, turned the washer on; washed off blood and/or put bandages on her hand in the downstairs bathroom near TA’s study; dressed; left carrying the weapons and her bloody clothes (at least) packaged up or in whatever she used, water-tight enough not to leave a blood trail/traces anywhere downstairs or in the garage or on the sidewalk near TA’s house.


4:54PM. Last use of TA’s computer (an email, iirc, relating to Cancun trip). Knowing what was in that email would be very helpful, eh? Might make the difference in knowing or having to speculate who sent the email).


6:00PM. (approximately). Enrique returns home. He doesn’t have a car, commutes to work by bus. He mentions that the front door was locked, which was unusual, and seeing the doggie gates up, which he also thought was unusual.

------------------------------------------------------------------

It would have most likely taken the no less than 4 hours (would have been a reckless , speeding demon to make it that quickly, but it's not impossible)to reach the place between Kingman, AZ and the Hoover Dam where she stopped (to at least) to try to call MM (didn’t get through) and Ryan, and to leave a VM on TA’s answering machine .


Again assuming the camera time was off by an hour, and assuming that the , not TA, used TA’s computer at 4:54PM and left shortly or immediately thereafter, she would have arrived at her pre-Hoover Dam stop in AZ no earlier than approx. 9:00PM, but comfortably by 10:00PM, AZ time.



--Ryan testified at trial that the called him at about 10:30 PM (Utah time, and as Pocket noted, 9:30 AZ time).

--In his initial investigation report, Flores notes that Ryan told him the called him at 2300 (11:00PM, Utah time, 10:00PM AZ time).

-- All the other times Flores writes from his notes of his interview with Ryan were provided by Ryan, and are in Utah, not AZ time.

VHM

 

[Hope4More]

A little something odd from TA’s text records. Was this already discussed and I’ve just forgotten the whole enchilada?

-----

There are 5 peculiar post-murder texts in TA’s text log/record provided by his phone company for trial, and later put into usable order by a wondrous volunteer over at BK’s site.

The text log indicates that all 5 texts were sent by “Travis Alexander” and logged as “incoming” to….Travis. All 5 are marked as unread, which isn’t as obvious a thing as it seems, since a great many of TA’s incoming messages between post-murder on the 4th through June 10th are marked as read.



--I think the XXXX’s are BK edits for privacy.

--Travis was found on June 9, around 10:30PM.

-- Flores arrived TA’s house at 11:50PM on the 9th. He began speaking to the friends still at scene who had found TA. Some of those friends told Flores the had already called them and wanted to know what was going on, and as Flores noted, “she had also mentioned she wanted to talk to the investigating Officers."



----------------------------------------
6/10/08. 1:43 PM. 602 *advertiser censored* *advertiser censored* (area code for most of Phoenix proper).


6/10/08. 1:44PM. 480 *advertiser censored* *advertiser censored* (eastern/northern Phoenix area code, including Mesa).

6/10/08. 1:44PM. 951 *advertiser censored* *advertiser censored* (California area code, includes Riverside and Murrieta)

6/12/08. 1AM. 801 *advertiser censored* *advertiser censored*


( is taken into custody on June 19).


6/20/08. 9:52am. 480 *advertiser censored* *advertiser censored*

------------------------------------------------

Huh?

 

[RickshawFan]

If you use the link I put upthread, your head won't have to spin with PST and Utah time and all that. Just use this to enter whatever time you want and it'll give you other time zones.
The World Clock - Time Zone Converter - USA – Utah – Salt Lake City vs USA – Arizona – Phoenix

 

[Wing Ding]

This goes along with my concept of her not arriving 'til after 4 pm and the text regarding renting had been sent?

IIRC, TA wasn't on the phone the whole afternoon. But he was on the computer.

And could have backspaced to see the dawn YouTube videos OR copied the link and looked it up later on her own computer?

Then, all she'd have had to do in the study at cleanup time was to leave the check and take TA's money?

I think might have been thrown off earlier in the day because TA didn't respond to her text about the rental room, and that caused her to delay. She could have assumed he wasn't home and she needed him to be home for the murder. So, she waited and tried again at 4 pm in the neighborhood and observed him returning from a bike ride (which might explain why he didn't text back, it being difficult to text while riding a bike). Then she heard his post-bike shower, and she was off and running, knife and gun secreted in her pants.

Until reading someone's post the other day about a bicycle found laying on T's garage floor (instead of hanging on bike hooks), I didn't even know a bike may have been part of the puzzle for that day. But if TA did go for a mid-afternoon bike ride (delaying Arias' itinerary for the day)...

A: who replied to Chris Hughes' text (between 11.00 am and noon)? Iirc, the reply was a-typical for Travis -- something along the lines of "did you buy one for me? lol" to whatever Hughes' question was.

If Travis was awake to go for a bike ride in the afternoon, and therefore still alive, wouldn't he have replied back to Chris Hughes' text? There were a lot of comments that the reply sounded like something Jodi would've said, and not something Travis would have said.

And B: when was the pic of a blurry-eyed Travis taken? (the one of him naked on his bed holding a thing of lube and flashing the peace sign)

Most people assumed it was taken in the late morning, but if Jodi wasn't there yet... then when?

All I'm trying to do by asking those two questions, Rickshaw, is work your bike-riding theory into two bits of evidence that we already know of from earlier that day.

Regarding the timezone setting on TA's camera... does anyone know when TA bought the camera and would have selected a timezone setting as part of the basic set-up? Didn't he buy it after Arias had already moved back to Yreka with her 3-pointed tail between her legs? That would have been after the daylight savings timechange, right?

 

[geevee]

I have it posted on another thread but I believe he bought the camera on or about April 23, well after she blew town.

 

[geevee]

A little something odd from TA’s text records. Was this already discussed and I’ve just forgotten the whole enchilada?

-----

There are 5 peculiar post-murder texts in TA’s text log/record provided by his phone company for trial, and later put into usable order by a wondrous volunteer over at BK’s site.

The text log indicates that all 5 texts were sent by “Travis Alexander” and logged as “incoming” to….Travis. All 5 are marked as unread, which isn’t as obvious a thing as it seems, since a great many of TA’s incoming messages between post-murder on the 4th through June 10th are marked as read.



--I think the XXXX’s are BK edits for privacy.

--Travis was found on June 9, around 10:30PM.

-- Flores arrived TA’s house at 11:50PM on the 9th. He began speaking to the friends still at scene who had found TA. Some of those friends told Flores the had already called them and wanted to know what was going on, and as Flores noted, “she had also mentioned she wanted to talk to the investigating Officers."



----------------------------------------
6/10/08. 1:43 PM. 602 *advertiser censored* *advertiser censored* (area code for most of Phoenix proper).


6/10/08. 1:44PM. 480 *advertiser censored* *advertiser censored* (eastern/northern Phoenix area code, including Mesa).

6/10/08. 1:44PM. 951 *advertiser censored* *advertiser censored* (California area code, includes Riverside and Murrieta)

6/12/08. 1AM. 801 *advertiser censored* *advertiser censored*


( is taken into custody on June 19).


6/20/08. 9:52am. 480 *advertiser censored* *advertiser censored*

------------------------------------------------

Huh?

Those are odd, could they have been spoof spam? Not sure if tech was as able back then on cells but they could spoof e-mails to read as if you'd sent them (I was getting spam back then that said it was sent by me, to me.)

m

 

[Wing Ding]

I have it posted on another thread but I believe he bought the camera on or about April 23, well after she blew town.

Right, geevee. So when initially selecting the settings on start-up, Travis could have set the timezone to either Pacific or Mountain and the timestamps on all the pics taken in April, May and June would have been correct either way, right?

Now if he, for some strange reason, selected the EST timezone (or if that was the system default and he didn't change it), then the shower pics were taken around 2.15 pm Arizona time, and he was dead by around 2.35. And the nudies were actually taken after 10.00 am and that might very well have been Jodi who returned Chis Hughes' second text at around noon-ish. Hmm... even more rabbit holes! lolol

 

[pocketaccent]

Until reading someone's post the other day about a bicycle found laying on T's garage floor (instead of hanging on bike hooks), I didn't even know a bike may have been part of the puzzle for that day. But if TA did go for a mid-afternoon bike ride (delaying Arias' itinerary for the day)...

A: who replied to Chris Hughes' text (between 11.00 am and noon)? Iirc, the reply was a-typical for Travis -- something along the lines of "did you buy one for me? lol" to whatever Hughes' question was.

If Travis was awake to go for a bike ride in the afternoon, and therefore still alive, wouldn't he have replied back to Chris Hughes' text? There were a lot of comments that the reply sounded like something Jodi would've said, and not something Travis would have said.

And B: when was the pic of a blurry-eyed Travis taken? (the one of him naked on his bed holding a thing of lube and flashing the peace sign)

Most people assumed it was taken in the late morning, but if Jodi wasn't there yet... then when?

All I'm trying to do by asking those two questions, Rickshaw, is work your bike-riding theory into two bits of evidence that we already know of from earlier that day.

Regarding the timezone setting on TA's camera... does anyone know when TA bought the camera and would have selected a timezone setting as part of the basic set-up? Didn't he buy it after Arias had already moved back to Yreka with her 3-pointed tail between her legs? That would have been after the daylight savings timechange, right?

There was no timezone setting available for TA's Sony.
He had an option to set year, month, day, time am or pm.
I uploaded the manual for Sony a few posts earlier but now I can't find it.. ugh.

 

[pocketaccent]

This goes along with my concept of her not arriving 'til after 4 pm and the text regarding renting had been sent?

IIRC, TA wasn't on the phone the whole afternoon. But he was on the computer.

And could have backspaced to see the dawn YouTube videos OR copied the link and looked it up later on her own computer?

Then, all she'd have had to do in the study at cleanup time was to leave the check and take TA's money?

I think might have been thrown off earlier in the day because TA didn't respond to her text about the rental room, and that caused her to delay. She could have assumed he wasn't home and she needed him to be home for the murder. So, she waited and tried again at 4 pm in the neighborhood and observed him returning from a bike ride (which might explain why he didn't text back, it being difficult to text while riding a bike). Then she heard his post-bike shower, and she was off and running, knife and gun secreted in her pants.

BBM
It was the who was on the computer. The whole afternoon.

 

[Wing Ding]

There was no timezone setting available for TA's Sony.
He had an option to set year, month, day, time am or pm.
I uploaded the manual for Sony a few posts earlier but now I can't find it.. ugh.

I see. If that's the case, it sounds like if Travis set the time and am/pm correctly (and why wouldn't he?), then all the pics that day are indeed Arizona time, right?

 

[Wing Ding]

BBM
It was the who was on the computer. The whole afternoon.

So if Travis wasn't dead until 5.30 (ish), could he have been on that afternoon bike ride after all? If so, that was the perfect opportunity for him to call the cops to get her out of his house.

 

[Hope4More]

Don't know how to do a multiple post response in this new format, so:

1. Travis bought his camera in May 2008, well after the left Mesa.

2. I have no idea what a spoof spam text is, and respectfully, Sister Geevee, am not going to go look that one up. The post murder texts from TA to TA are the only texts like that in the entire text record. There's additional odd about post-murder texts as well, but if it comes down to tech discussion, I'm out.

3. Mimi is the only one who commented on seeing TA's bike on the garage floor. Unfortunately, she is one of the least knowledgeable friends or witnesses about what was normal or typical for Travis anywhere, much less at his house, which she had visited only, at most, a small handful of times.

I think her mention of the bike is a pretty slim & fragile reed on which to hang any theories about what Travis did or did not do that day.

((One reality check- late afternoon in Arizona summer, even in early summer, isn't a particularly obvious choice of time to go outside to exercise. Temps in Mesa on the 4th reached a high of 93. TA wrote in his journal in May that it was already hot, time to pull out his shorts.

No shorts were found in the wash. Sweatpants were, though.))


Mimi's mention that the bike was on the floor may or may not be relevant at all, but even if the bike was out of place (no way to know), there are multiple reasons why it might have so that have nothing to do with Travis using it that day (one possibility, at random: someone moved it from off the wall because it was in the way of trying to access something else in the garage...like a license plate or screwdriver, even.

 

[Hope4More]

BBM
It was the who was on the computer. The whole afternoon.

Is there evidence for this assertion, or is it a theory? I don't remember ever hearing details about June 4 computer activity other than Daft, Spybot, and what iirc was the email sent as final use of TA's computer that day.

 

[pocketaccent]

I see. If that's the case, it sounds like if Travis set the time and am/pm correctly (and why wouldn't he?), then all the pics that day are indeed Arizona time, right?

I think he bypassed the time setting option. So the camera retained its factory default time.

When Travis received his laptop (a gift from Deanna, registered uner her name, already set to PST), he never re-set it to MST. The time on the laptop was always wrong from Nov to March. I think it was ok with him to not have correct time on his electronics in general.

 

[pocketaccent]

Is there evidence for this assertion, or is it a theory? I don't remember ever hearing details about June 4 computer activity other than Daft, Spybot, and what iirc was the email sent as final use of TA's computer that day.

Not really a theory. Only a speculation because I think 5:30 pm murder seems not possible, based on when called Ryan.

The 3:34 pm (Melendez on day 6 of 1st trial), 4:19 pm (Flores report), 4:54 pm (Melendez, don't remember what day) computer usage was either noted by Flores or testified to by Melendez during trial.