Several' bodies found at Mandan, North Dakota business, 1 April 2019 *Arrest*

[Subiechik21]

I have to add, the fact that he was able to find and recover all nine of his shell casings is amazing to me. I can go out and shoot my pistol on my pasture and I almost always am unable to find a couple of my casings and I am totally calm and have all the time in the world and have a pretty good idea where they should be. I am assuming the murder scene(s) was very chaotic, things moving fast, his casings flying who knows where. Any yet he was able to go back and pick up every single one. Just lucky I guess.

BBM
In the Rhoden massacre, the family of murderers used what are known as "shell catchers" which attach to your gun to catch the spent shell casings, this may be what he used but also maybe not. Just a thought.

 

[Mountain Misst]

Certainly one of my unanswered questions as well. I am currently thinking that the wrong dispatch on the initial 911 call is just that: a mistake by the dispatch and they are probably in hot water over it. Not that Isaak's premeditation could not include a fake 911 call to throw people off. I guess once it becomes a matter of public record we will know but I'm going with human error for now.

IMO

From what I've garnered, the original call was a medical emergency for victim RF - this call has not been reported to my knowledge. LE attended at 7:30 and it was only when they explored the premises further that they found other bodies. The audio file at 7:49am fleshes-out this knowledge, when you listen to it.
The audio file also cancels further medical units. I don't have the link - it's up- thread - probably posted on Wednesday from memory. I can't find it now - mods may have removed it.

911 call of 4 slain in Mandan, North Dakota not released

 

[Trudie]

BBM
In the Rhoden massacre, the family of murderers used what are known as "shell catchers" which attach to your gun to catch the spent shell casings, this may be what he used but also maybe not. Just a thought.

Good thought. Being familiar with guns, he prob did use the catchers. Jmo
(Haven’t read about a catcher being recovered).

 

[ilovechili]

Were his other bloody clothes wadded up in the jacket?

BBM
Not only did he kill 4 people in 13 minutes, he shot and stabbed them, cut the woman's throat, found and picked up all nine shell casings, changed clothes, got truck keys and walked out. He was hustling!

That was very quick if one thinks about it. How could he possibly know either where people would be in this building? I mean if he shot one or two in the front and someone was in the back and heard it, how could he be sure the person would not flee, hide or call for help if they had a cell phone? Did he stab first (silent) and then go search to find everyone who may be in the building? And shoot all last upon leaving?

Even though we now know a lot more than we did just yesterday morning, there are still many questions.

 

[Inthedetails]

I'll try.

Surely he'd be intelligent enough to know all of the security cams couldn't be evaded?

Snipped.

He went in wearing colorful clothes and colorful "head gear." What head gear? Bike helmet? Motorcycle helmet? He was wearing a ski mask later, but most people wouldn't call a ski mask "head gear."

I'm guessing a helmet and I'm guessing he wore it to avoid being identified on the cameras. (Like SWAT perp, for those who followed Missy Bever's case.)

jmo

 

[zecats]

Certainly one of my unanswered questions as well. I am currently thinking that the wrong dispatch on the initial 911 call is just that: a mistake by the dispatch and they are probably in hot water over it. Not that Isaak's premeditation could not include a fake 911 call to throw people off. I guess once it becomes a matter of public record we will know but I'm going with human error for now.

IMO

How about this scenario. CI arrives (walks in) at 6:47am. Someone's personal truck is seen on video arriving and parking at 7am. RJR vehicle leaves 4 minutes later, now known to be driven by CI, 911 call comes in 7:30am, and police arrive shortly after, GK arrives to the business to pick up her son, Mitchell K, an employee there, who called her and told her something is going on. He didn't say what.

*Questions - what time did Mitchell arrive to work? What time did he call his mom?
What time did his mom arrive? Why did he call her - he didn't go home with her? Possible he's the driver of the pickup truck arriving at 7am and also the 911 caller? Maybe tried CPR on one victim (RF - was stated by LE someone tried to revive him).

GK and her son hugged, she said, both crying, and he went back behind the police line.

*This is one timeline that fits with my thinking. JMO

Police: 'Several' bodies found at Mandan, N.D., business

 

[Jabarn]

That was very quick if one thinks about it. How could he possibly know either where people would be in this building? I mean if he shot one or two in the front and someone was in the back and heard it, how could he be sure the person would not flee, hide or call for help if they had a cell phone? Did he stab first (silent) and then go search to find everyone who may be in the building? And shoot all last upon leaving?

Even though we now know a lot more than we did just yesterday morning, there are still many questions.

Looking back on the media accounts today, do any of you see evidence one of the RJR employees saw CI before he left the scene?

 

[Trudie]

How about this scenario. CI arrives (walks in) at 6:47am. Someone's personal truck is seen on video arriving and parking at 7am. RJR vehicle leaves 4 minutes later, now known to be driven by CI, 911 call comes in 7:30am, and police arrive shortly after, GK arrives to the business to pick up her son, Mitchell K, an employee there, who called her and told her something is going on. He didn't say what.

*Questions - what time did Mitchell arrive to work? What time did he call his mom?
What time did his mom arrive? Why did he call her - he didn't go home with her? Possible he's the driver of the pickup truck arriving at 7am and also the 911 caller? Maybe tried CPR on one victim (RF - was stated by LE someone tried to revive him).

GK and her son hugged, she said, both crying, and he went back behind the police line.

*This is one timeline that fits with my thinking. JMO

Police: 'Several' bodies found at Mandan, N.D., business

It does sound possible things went down this way.
Poor Mitchell K.

 

[Gardenista]

Wondering if LE asked RJR to do the PC today to check the behavior of RJR employees during the PC. Or maybe I'm just over-thinking it since we don't have a motive yet.

 

[Subiechik21]

This article states RF was still alive when EMT arrived

"The police affidavit portrays a grisly crime scene in which the Cobbs and Fuehrer were shot and stabbed several times. Fakler had multiple lacerations and stab wounds, and first responders tried in vain to resuscitate him."
Police: North Dakota suspect planned carefully, hid evidence

 

[Rocco]

It is sure amazing how bond varies by case and state. He killed four people, I know of someone charged with killing one who has a one million dollar bond and he has a criminal history, another who killed two charged with a 5 million dollar bond. Different state though. Then I know of people who have killed released on like a $20,000.00 bond and free until trial.

Remember William Hoehn? His bail was 2 million.

 

[LietKynes]

Snipped.

He went in wearing colorful clothes and colorful "head gear." What head gear? Bike helmet? Motorcycle helmet? He was wearing a ski mask later, but most people wouldn't call a ski mask "head gear."

I'm guessing a helmet and I'm guessing he wore it to avoid being identified on the cameras. (Like SWAT perp, for those who followed Missy Bever's case.)

jmo

Yes, I wondered about that "head gear", as well.
"Colorful" makes me think a bicycle helmet.

 

[Inthedetails]

Welcome newbies! Glad to have newcomers to the discussion.

If you're unfamiliar with Websleuths, here's the rules for posting (often referred to as TOS): The Rules

 

[LietKynes]

It does sound possible things went down this way.
Poor Mitchell K.

Agreed.
That would be tough.

 

[Jabarn]

Yes, I wondered about that "head gear", as well.
"Colorful" makes me think a bicycle helmet".

It would make sense he would want something very noticeable walking in to differentiate him walking out. Again. What the heck kind of person thinks this will work?

 

[LietKynes]

It would make sense he would want something very noticeable walking in to differentiate him walking out. Again. What the heck kind of person thinks this will work?

I know.
Crazy !
He seems like a person with enough brains to realize this was evil and stupid. Maybe not in that order .

 

[ilovechili]

Looking back on the media accounts today, do any of you see evidence one of the RJR employees saw CI before he left the scene?

I am not sure why this was in response to my comment as I do not see the relation?

In response to your question though, I think it is odd that someone pulls in at 7 and CI leaves at 7:04. To me that means either the 7 am person who pulled in was one of the victims and was likely the last killed or it was an employee that was not killed but, if so, the employee showed up a good four minutes before CI left...

 

[Inthedetails]

I know.
Crazy !
He seems like a person with enough brains to realize this was evil and stupid. Maybe not in that order .

In the Missy Bevers case, the perp(s) wore head gear, wandered around a building on camera, committed murder, and has never been found. I have no clue if CI was familiar with that case (I am assuming he wasn't), but I think that was indeed the plan - to be on camera but not identifiable. And, I guess, also protects him from injuries to his face that he would have to explain or hide later.

jmo

 

[ilovechili]

How about this scenario. CI arrives (walks in) at 6:47am. Someone's personal truck is seen on video arriving and parking at 7am. RJR vehicle leaves 4 minutes later, now known to be driven by CI, 911 call comes in 7:30am, and police arrive shortly after, GK arrives to the business to pick up her son, Mitchell K, an employee there, who called her and told her something is going on. He didn't say what.

*Questions - what time did Mitchell arrive to work? What time did he call his mom?
What time did his mom arrive? Why did he call her - he didn't go home with her? Possible he's the driver of the pickup truck arriving at 7am and also the 911 caller? Maybe tried CPR on one victim (RF - was stated by LE someone tried to revive him).

GK and her son hugged, she said, both crying, and he went back behind the police line.

*This is one timeline that fits with my thinking. JMO

Police: 'Several' bodies found at Mandan, N.D., business

So where was CI when Mitchell arrived 4 minutes before CI left?

 

[Jabarn]

I am not sure why this was in response to my comment as I do not see the relation?

In response to your question though, I think it is odd that someone pulls in at 7 and CI leaves at 7:04. To me that means either the 7 am person who pulled in was one of the victims and was likely the last killed or it was an employee that was not killed but, if so, the employee showed up a good four minutes before CI left...

Oh, no, it wasn’t a response directly to you- something I was thinking about with the attempts for CPR, probably for RF. IMO. Only wondering if one of the employees left alive actually saw CI.

I tend to the think the last car pulling in might have been an employee and the one to call 911. No way to know, for now, really, but hoping some others of you caught that information in the media, regarding the call and attempt at
resuscitation.

Edited for clarification.