Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #2

[Ruthbullock]

Actually, I vehemently disagree. It's a steep trail (at one point with cables for assistance) and not at all flat, it's zigzag, there's scree underfoot, trails are unclear because of terrain, and there are mini-lakes that you can step off the trail and right into. Then there are the rocky areas where water feeds the lake near the refuge.
I have trouble navigating that stuff even with a headlamp. I've had to bivouac on a day hike a mile from town when I couldn't see more than about 2 steps in front of me. I had no idea what I was walking into or on or where. I was practically tripping over my feet. Despite my headlamp. Luckily, I had my 10 essentials. It wasn't fun, but I was safe.
The odds of having an accident in the dark in the area between the Pic and the Refuge are colossal. IMO. You miss a zigzag, and you're toast.

IME people with blue eyes have a much harder time seeing in the dark than folks with brown eyes. Anyone else come across this?

You talk about lakes that are easy to fall
In, yet everything that has been posted on here suggests they are wide footpaths and difficult to accidentally fall into lakes (I had the same concerns from posted photos).

 

[RickshawFan]

Each day, new articles are released with modified information that point away from hiker error. This is understandable coming from family who desperately want her to be alive. Hiker error drastically reduces that possibility.

Great point.

 

[Andreee]

Actually, I vehemently disagree. It's a steep trail (at one point with cables for assistance) and not at all flat, it's zigzag, there's scree underfoot, trails are unclear because of terrain, and there are mini-lakes that you can step off the trail and right into. Then there are the rocky areas where water feeds the lake near the refuge.
I have trouble navigating that stuff even with a headlamp. I've had to bivouac on a day hike a mile from town when I couldn't see more than about 2 steps in front of me. I had no idea what I was walking into or on or where. I was practically tripping over my feet. Despite my headlamp. Luckily, I had my 10 essentials. It wasn't fun, but I was safe.
The odds of having an accident in the dark in the area between the Pic and the Refuge are colossal. IMO. You miss a zigzag, and you're toast.

IME people with blue eyes have a much harder time seeing in the dark than folks with brown eyes. Anyone else come across this?

Yes, for sure there were little lakes right near the trail at times. It would be so easy to slip and fall into one, at least for me lol.

 

[Andreee]

Actually, I vehemently disagree. It's a steep trail (at one point with cables for assistance) and not at all flat, it's zigzag, there's scree underfoot, trails are unclear because of terrain, and there are mini-lakes that you can step off the trail and right into. Then there are the rocky areas where water feeds the lake near the refuge.
I have trouble navigating that stuff even with a headlamp. I've had to bivouac on a day hike a mile from town when I couldn't see more than about 2 steps in front of me. I had no idea what I was walking into or on or where. I was practically tripping over my feet. Despite my headlamp. Luckily, I had my 10 essentials. It wasn't fun, but I was safe.
The odds of having an accident in the dark in the area between the Pic and the Refuge are colossal. IMO. You miss a zigzag, and you're toast.

IME people with blue eyes have a much harder time seeing in the dark than folks with brown eyes. Anyone else come across this?

Yes, for sure there were little lakes right near the trail at times. It would be so easy to slip and fall into one, at least for me lol.

 

[10ofRods]

You talk about lakes that are easy to fall
In, yet everything that has been posted on here suggests they are wide footpaths and difficult to accidentally fall into lakes (I had the same concerns from posted photos).

Unless you're carrying water, which is heavy, when backpacking you have to go down to the edge of the lake.

If you make it there without falling, there's still a risk of falling in. It's a common cause of death in outdoor adventure. Rocks at the side of water (pond, lake, river, stream) can be very very slick. Leaning into the water to use whatever water-gathering device one has, is still a lean. People fall in. And mountain lakes often lack sloping sides. And it's cold.

If a person doesn't take off their pack before attempting this (and I've seen people try to do it many, many times without taking off their pack), it can be deadly.

It's a major cause of death in wilderness parks. In California, something like 70% of deaths in National Parks and National Forests involve falling into water.

 

[10ofRods]

Actually, I vehemently disagree. It's a steep trail (at one point with cables for assistance) and not at all flat, it's zigzag, there's scree underfoot, trails are unclear because of terrain, and there are mini-lakes that you can step off the trail and right into. Then there are the rocky areas where water feeds the lake near the refuge.
I have trouble navigating that stuff even with a headlamp. I've had to bivouac on a day hike a mile from town when I couldn't see more than about 2 steps in front of me. I had no idea what I was walking into or on or where. I was practically tripping over my feet. Despite my headlamp. Luckily, I had my 10 essentials. It wasn't fun, but I was safe.
The odds of having an accident in the dark in the area between the Pic and the Refuge are colossal. IMO. You miss a zigzag, and you're toast.

IME people with blue eyes have a much harder time seeing in the dark than folks with brown eyes. Anyone else come across this?

Actually...the research says the opposite.

Does Eye Color Affect Vision?.

(Simplistic summary, but still...less melanin in the eye means that more light gets in...)

IME, as a brown-eyed person whose mother and spouse both have blue eyes, it's quite true that they can see better in low light than I can. They can also discern finer detail up close.

Well, actually, my eyes are light brown (my mom is blue-eyed) and I raised two dark brown eyed daughters.

You won't see me squinting as much at that bright blue horizon when we're out on open water or in any bright place (like the desert). Give me brown eyes on deserts, any time. But darker brown eyes are even better in sun (but not dark conditions). Anthropologists figure it took about 10,000 years for this adaptation to take place (greater selection in favor of dark eyed people in desert areas; opposite in dark ice age/cloudy conditions).

At any rate, nearly everyone has a hard time adjusting to night conditions and it really does change vision. Headlamps may even make it worse for some, as they think it's an improvement (but just outside the circle of light, there's pitch darkness, due to use of the headlamp).

Always better, IME. to try as hard as possible to get by on moonlight and starlight - and if those aren't around, then don't be moving around at night.

Anyway, brown-eyed people definitely need more time to adjust to darkness. Blue-eyed people in general do better under starlight/dark conditions.

Snipped for focus.

I'm not understanding this as evidence for being on a mountaintop. The tower on the Pic presumably was a ping site for miles around, so ED would not have to have been in close proximity.

You are right. This is crucial.

Big error to think that she had to be in close proximity to that tower. There's a reason towers are taller and are on ridges/mountaintops.

 

[10ofRods]

still one of the most amazing stories I have ever read.... such a wonderful friend

I just finished it too (with lots of side trips). It's an amazing WS read. Her friend is amazing, and HH in Scotland is now a true hero of mine. And while the whole situation was tragic, the people in Susan's life did their best for her.

 

[10ofRods]

..

 

[otto]

Italics mine. For the good of the order, I'll throw in right here that there had to have been <1.5 hours before dark, because she was headed into that deep valley. An hour's hike was going to put her in darkness at the bottom.

This link describes the walk from the refuge to the Port de Venasque as a 30 minute hike. It also describes that hikers are out of the sun ascending the mountain from France during mid-day except when they are at the plateau - which is where the refuge is located.

With the sun going down, I believe that it would she would lose daylight earlier than the 5:30PM sunset in the town of Benasque.

"... from the Spanish side. Port de Venasques is the crack in the center. Pic de Sauvegarde (2738 meters) is on the left."

Bagnerer-de-Lucon

 

[Ninja Bunny]

Are those photos of her on the days in question, or just random photos?

They’re not her. I posted them to show that Maladeta is a climb, not a hike, and you need proper warm clothes and climbing gear to get up there.

 

[Grouse]

Snipped for focus.

I'm not understanding this as evidence for being on a mountaintop. The tower on the Pic presumably was a ping site for miles around, so ED would not have to have been in close proximity.

OK, maybe not, just recall reading it in one of the earlier MSM reports. Strike that from the list. I think the other points are still strong evidence she made two ascents. And she posted on other occasions of making multiple ascents of a different mountain, so it wasn't unusual.

 

[ZaZara]

Pyrénées : la piste accidentelle privilégiée un mois après la disparition d’une randonneuse anglaise

The Pyrenees: one month after the disappearance of an English hiker, the main theory is that of an accident

Investigators are turning to the track of an accident to explain the disappearance of Esther Dingley, aged 37. This British woman went hiking in the Luchonnais region a month ago.

She hasn't given any sign of life since a WhatsApp message sent on 22 November. It was her companion who received no more news of her and sounded the alarm.

Significant search operations have already been carried out on both sides of the border, French and Spanish, including the presence of a helicopter. For several days now, the bad weather conditions have prevented any search.

" One may be an experienced hiker, but accidents can still happen," a source close to the investigation tells France Bleu Occitanie. This same source specifies that "nothing indicates a kidnapping", nor even an "encounter with a bear". The investigation into this worrying disappearance has been entrusted to the gendarmerie of Saint-Gaudens.


BBM

 

[RickshawFan]

Actually...the research says the opposite.

Does Eye Color Affect Vision?.

(Simplistic summary, but still...less melanin in the eye means that more light gets in...)

IME, as a brown-eyed person whose mother and spouse both have blue eyes, it's quite true that they can see better in low light than I can. They can also discern finer detail up close.

Well, actually, my eyes are light brown (my mom is blue-eyed) and I raised two dark brown eyed daughters.

You won't see me squinting as much at that bright blue horizon when we're out on open water or in any bright place (like the desert). Give me brown eyes on deserts, any time. But darker brown eyes are even better in sun (but not dark conditions). Anthropologists figure it took about 10,000 years for this adaptation to take place (greater selection in favor of dark eyed people in desert areas; opposite in dark ice age/cloudy conditions).

At any rate, nearly everyone has a hard time adjusting to night conditions and it really does change vision. Headlamps may even make it worse for some, as they think it's an improvement (but just outside the circle of light, there's pitch darkness, due to use of the headlamp).

Always better, IME. to try as hard as possible to get by on moonlight and starlight - and if those aren't around, then don't be moving around at night.

Anyway, brown-eyed people definitely need more time to adjust to darkness. Blue-eyed people in general do better under starlight/dark conditions.



You are right. This is crucial.

Big error to think that she had to be in close proximity to that tower. There's a reason towers are taller and are on ridges/mountaintops.

Wow... I didn't think of "blue eyes=north=lower light". Great point. Hmm.... I am almost blind at dusk. I go so blind so quickly, it makes me panic. This is not to say I haven't ever hiked in pitch black darkness, however. When there's coyotes howling all around, you gotta kinda go for it: a bivouac in those conditions would not be attractive.
In ED's case, though, I would have done whatever it takes to get to that Refuge in daylight. If I were the least bit cold, I'd also be pitching my tent (if I brought one) inside the refuge. That's experience, though, and knowing what feels best and safest. ED could have decided that she wanted to experience the moonlight and stars; IMO this was not the time or the place to do that. This would have been a HUGE risk.

 

[RickshawFan]

Unless you're carrying water, which is heavy, when backpacking you have to go down to the edge of the lake.

This ^^^.

IMO this was why ED asked for fruit. She ran out of water on the way up the Pic, then heard/realized/saw she wouldn't have water 'til she got to the valley, and even then, not at the Refuge. A piece of fruit would have kept her going 'til she could get water.

Trying to get water in the dark..... Ayayay. But she might not have realized before she set out on the trip that the Refuge had no running water.

 

[10ofRods]

This ^^^.

IMO this was why ED asked for fruit. She ran out of water on the way up the Pic, then heard/realized/saw she wouldn't have water 'til she got to the valley, and even then, not at the Refuge. A piece of fruit would have kept her going 'til she could get water.

Trying to get water in the dark..... Ayayay. But she might not have realized before she set out on the trip that the Refuge had no running water.

I agree with you. I doubt she was carrying enough water for a 2-3 day trip and thought there would be water at the refuge. It doesn't look like there was tons of snow to melt, if she even took the fuel and stove to melt snow. She may have thought the lakes were closer to the trail than they actually are, etc.

Trying to get water in the dark would indeed be a risky activity.

 

[otto]

I agree with you. I doubt she was carrying enough water for a 2-3 day trip and thought there would be water at the refuge. It doesn't look like there was tons of snow to melt, if she even took the fuel and stove to melt snow. She may have thought the lakes were closer to the trail than they actually are, etc.

Trying to get water in the dark would indeed be a risky activity.

Couldn't she eat snow? I remember eating snow as a child and it doesn't appear to have caused any harm.

 

[sundaaaay]

I agree with you. I doubt she was carrying enough water for a 2-3 day trip and thought there would be water at the refuge. It doesn't look like there was tons of snow to melt, if she even took the fuel and stove to melt snow. She may have thought the lakes were closer to the trail than they actually are, etc.

Trying to get water in the dark would indeed be a risky activity.

The lakes are quite close to the trail and there is often streams which the water is clean and suitable for drinking. I’ve hiked in the alps before and drank from them the entire time.

 

[sundaaaay]

OK, maybe not, just recall reading it in one of the earlier MSM reports. Strike that from the list. I think the other points are still strong evidence she made two ascents. And she posted on other occasions of making multiple ascents of a different mountain, so it wasn't unusual.

I think it’s true she made two ascents but personally I find it an odd thing to do. I like hiking, but after reaching a summit I tend to want to move on to another one rather than do the same one twice.

 

[sundaaaay]

Unless you're carrying water, which is heavy, when backpacking you have to go down to the edge of the lake.

If you make it there without falling, there's still a risk of falling in. It's a common cause of death in outdoor adventure. Rocks at the side of water (pond, lake, river, stream) can be very very slick. Leaning into the water to use whatever water-gathering device one has, is still a lean. People fall in. And mountain lakes often lack sloping sides. And it's cold.

If a person doesn't take off their pack before attempting this (and I've seen people try to do it many, many times without taking off their pack), it can be deadly.

It's a major cause of death in wilderness parks. In California, something like 70% of deaths in National Parks and National Forests involve falling into water.

I understand that in places like California hiking deaths in water are frequent but from my experience these alpine lakes are carved from glaciers and are actually quite scooped out and shallow around the edges. You wouldn’t want to swim in them even in summer because they are always freezing cold. It would be easy to take water from the edge but it would be safer to find a moving water source like a stream.

 

[Recliner]

Firstly I won’t add to the speculation because I have no idea how or why ED is missing other that I suspect an accident, somewhere in the general vicinity of her last photo.

Reading through all of the post there is one issue that I see as factually incorrect which is the light levels. I mentioned this before but I think it is probably buried in the first thread.

Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020

I’ve added some images and links which I hope will be helpful.

I agree the valleys are darker and that fading light is risky in the event of a mishap but I do not see darkness as a primary cause.

It was not dark at 5.30pm.

I took this photo from my house (100km away) just after 5.30pm this evening. The pyramid-shaped peak is the Pic di Midi Bigorre which is about 50km NW of the Pic do Sauvegarde.

The other photo is a webcam from Plateau du Clot (5000ft) Pont D’Espagne at about 6pm 5000ft. This is over to the west.
Cauterets, vos vacances à la montagne été comme hiver.

I’ve tried to keep this brief so if you have any questions, chip in.