Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #2

[otto]

Sorry I'm a bit behind, but I wondered if the stranger who gave Esther a lift came forward? Is that who you are referring to as the older man or ?

Yes, referring to the older man and his grandson who gave her a lift to the trail head on Nov 21 (sorry, might have made a mistake about the date in an earlier comment). The information he provided created some confusion about her plans and route, but they were speaking French - a foreign language for both of them - and it wouldn't surprise me that something was lost in translation.

 

[Alyce]

Well... this one will break your heart and lift your soul, all at the same time. Sometimes amazing people do truly amazing things on this forum. Make a cuppa and read from the start:

Found Deceased - UK - Susan McLean, 61, U.S. tourist, Aberfeldy, Scotland, 17 May 2015

still one of the most amazing stories I have ever read.... such a wonderful friend

 

[Grouse]

It's definitely the same summit - the mast can be seen in both (one in the reflection of her glasses because she's standing further back behind it) and it's the same scenery behind her.

Don't forget the IG post was made the day before after she'd received a lift to the foot of the mountain that morning, and she was also seen going up by the Olympian on the afternoon of the 22nd.

BBM

You're absolutely right. There's no way those two photos are not from the top of that same peak, it can be seen in things like the rocks and the snow on the summit and the background vista is not just a bit similar it's identical other than the shadows on the far slopes that show it was at different times of day.

The only grounds for asserting that there were not two ascents (the 21st is a given I'd say from the IG posts) would be to dismiss entirely the following:

• the witnesses on the 22nd
• the evidence from Dan about her contacting from there on 22nd
• the analysis LE must have done on evidence from Dan's phone
• the cell and GPS ping data that was reported to have stopped on 22nd on Pic de Sauvegarde

 

[mrjitty]

Well... this one will break your heart and lift your soul, all at the same time. Sometimes amazing people do truly amazing things on this forum. Make a cuppa and read from the start:

Found Deceased - UK - Susan McLean, 61, U.S. tourist, Aberfeldy, Scotland, 17 May 2015

Wow!

 

[Andreee]

Yes, referring to the older man and his grandson who gave her a lift to the trail head on Nov 21 (sorry, might have made a mistake about the date in an earlier comment). The information he provided created some confusion about her plans and route, but they were speaking French - a foreign language for both of them - and it wouldn't surprise me that something was lost in translation.

Ok so from what another post wrote earlier, that sole man who LE were looking for originally and trying to get to come forward also came forward or ? He had given ED a lift to either her camper or further up the valley.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Ok so from what another post wrote earlier, that sole man who LE were looking for originally and trying to get to come forward also came forward or ? He had given ED a lift to either her camper or further up the valley.

Yes, they've both come forward. The older man was in contact with police from the start, the mystery hiker came forward after seeing appeals.

Dan said on 14th:
The “mystery man” who gave her a lift back to the motorhome on the 19th (after her previous hiking trip) spoke to the police already.
Esther & Dan

 

[Andreee]

Yes, they've both come forward. The older man was in contact with police from the start, the mystery hiker came forward after seeing appeals.

Dan said on 14th:
The “mystery man” who gave her a lift back to the motorhome on the 19th (after her previous hiking trip) spoke to the police already.
Esther & Dan

Ah, ok thanks and that's good!

 

[Ruthbullock]

My guess is she camped the night of the 21st.

Several reasons for this guess -

1. I think it looks like she had a plastic bag of provisions with her.
2. It is quite a distance to hike back to the camper van with a heavy pack, only to return the next day. (her journey there on 21st was already aided by a car ride)
3. She didn't make any posts updating on her day's activities on the night of 21st, so was presumably conserving battery.
4. She asked for fruit on 22nd so may have been running short on, or conserving, water.
5. Her hair is not as neatly tied back in the photo on 22nd as it was on 21st.

MOO

Sorry not caught up yet, so may have been mentioned. But it wasn’t much distance to either the campervan or the refuge, neither enough to warrant camping out, especially as we know where she was the following day. She could have walked to one or the other (both having power sources) within a couple of hours.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Sorry not caught up yet, so may have been mentioned. But it wasn’t much distance to either the campervan or the refuge, neither enough to warrant camping out, especially as we know where she was the following day. She could have walked to one or the other (both having power sources) within a couple of hours.

I doubt she'd have walked back to the campervan in that time - it was parked a good 10-12 miles away.

There are 2 or 3 places she could have stayed on the road side of Sauvegarde - Llanos del Hospital (which is a proper hotel), a little refuge/shack at Plan d'Estan, and a more organised looking refuge at La Besurta.

All within approx a mile of the base of Sauvegarde, all marked on here: Google Maps

 

[ZaZara]

Sorry not caught up yet, so may have been mentioned. But it wasn’t much distance to either the campervan or the refuge, neither enough to warrant camping out, especially as we know where she was the following day. She could have walked to one or the other (both having power sources) within a couple of hours.

I doubt she'd have walked back to the campervan in that time - it was parked a good 10-12 miles away.

There are 2 or 3 places she could have stayed on the road side of Sauvegarde - Llanos del Hospital (which is a proper hotel), a little refuge/shack at Plan d'Estan, and a more organised looking refuge at La Besurta.

All within approx a mile of the base of Sauvegarde, all marked on here: Google Maps

Esther planned to go for a few days into the mountains, just as she had done in the previous days.

Mr Ballarin said:
"But when I look back, I don’t think she was doing anything foolhardy. She seemed perfectly happy. There was nothing that made me worry for her.

"She was just a capable young woman heading up into the mountains for a few days of adventure. She seemed like a sensible young woman."

Missing Esther Dingley's secrets, by the last man to see her alive | Daily Mail Online

 

[ZaZara]

Un mes sin noticias de Esther Dingley

This Tuesday it will be a month since the British-Dutch hiker Esther Dingley disappeared while on a trip through the Pyrenees. Three days later, on 25 November, the searches for her began when it was reported that she had disappeared and had not returned to Benasque.

Since 22 November there have been no entries on the blog she shares with her partner Dan, nor on other social networks on which she used to post. Those who have spoken out have been her mother Ría and her partner, Daniel Colegate, with a text in English entitled 'We just want her back...' where they express themselves openly after days of speculation.

....

[ Her partner Dan ] says that she is an experienced hiker, and she always told him when she was leaving and when she was planning to return. On the 20th of November, he explains, shewas staying in the motorvan, and on the 21st she left. Esther, he continues, was carrying the right equipment to take care of herself and, from the peak where she was when they last spoke, she was able to reach, according to Dan, any road in France or Spain, or a shelter because she had two hours of light left.


BBM

 

[Ruthbullock]

Esther planned to go for a few days into the mountains, just as she had done in the previous days.

She did I understand that, but in reality there was no need for her to stay at the refuge, except to progress onwards (on her three day hike). Why ask for fruit (on day one of three) and then continue- and that’s where we don’t know if she did or changed her mind (apart from a statement from
someone miles away). The facts in this case are very stand alone.

 

[otto]

I am concerned about new articles that state she had two hours of daylight to reach a location less than an hour away. This early comment, from 28 November, puts her at the summit at "about 4PM." I posted independent links yesterday demonstrating that the hike was minimum one hour.

I suspect that she had barely 1.5 hours to reach a destination during daylight that was at least an hour away, and which was down the North slope of the mountain.

The combination of more time and shorter route do give more credence to criminal act, whereas less time and longer route give more credence to hiker error.

I understand that "at about" could mean 4:15 or 3:45, but it doesn't mean 3:30. In order to have two hours of daylight, it had to be 3:30. Minor detail, but for me it is significant.

"Mr Colegate said she had been away for a month and their last conversation had been about "how excited we were to see each other as this was her last trip before driving back".

Her last known location was on top of the mountain at about 16:00 GMT on 22 November.

Ms Dingley had started walking from Benasque in Spain on Saturday and had a plan to spend Sunday night at Refuge Venasque in France, Mr Colegate said."​

Durham van traveller Esther Dingley missing in Pyrenees

 

[RickshawFan]

I am concerned about new articles that state she had two hours of daylight to reach a location less than an hour away. This early comment, from 28 November, puts her at the summit at "about 4PM." I posted independent links yesterday demonstrating that the hike was minimum one hour.

I suspect that she had barely 1.5 hours to reach a destination during daylight that was at least an hour away, and which was down the North slope of the mountain.

The combination of more time and shorter route do give more credence to criminal act, whereas less time and longer route give more credence to hiker error.

I understand that "at about" could mean 4:15 or 3:45, but it doesn't mean 3:30. In order to have two hours of daylight, it had to be 3:30. Minor detail, but for me it is significant.

"Mr Colegate said she had been away for a month and their last conversation had been about "how excited we were to see each other as this was her last trip before driving back".

Her last known location was on top of the mountain at about 16:00 GMT on 22 November.

Ms Dingley had started walking from Benasque in Spain on Saturday and had a plan to spend Sunday night at Refuge Venasque in France, Mr Colegate said."​

Durham van traveller Esther Dingley missing in Pyrenees

Italics mine. For the good of the order, I'll throw in right here that there had to have been <1.5 hours before dark, because she was headed into that deep valley. An hour's hike was going to put her in darkness at the bottom.

 

[RickshawFan]

the cell and GPS ping data that was reported to have stopped on 22nd on Pic de Sauvegarde

Snipped for focus.

I'm not understanding this as evidence for being on a mountaintop. The tower on the Pic presumably was a ping site for miles around, so ED would not have to have been in close proximity.

 

[Ruthbullock]

I am concerned about new articles that state she had two hours of daylight to reach a location less than an hour away. This early comment, from 28 November, puts her at the summit at "about 4PM." I posted independent links yesterday demonstrating that the hike was minimum one hour.

I suspect that she had barely 1.5 hours to reach a destination during daylight that was at least an hour away, and which was down the North slope of the mountain.

The combination of more time and shorter route do give more credence to criminal act, whereas less time and longer route give more credence to hiker error.

I understand that "at about" could mean 4:15 or 3:45, but it doesn't mean 3:30. In order to have two hours of daylight, it had to be 3:30. Minor detail, but for me it is significant.

"Mr Colegate said she had been away for a month and their last conversation had been about "how excited we were to see each other as this was her last trip before driving back".

Her last known location was on top of the mountain at about 16:00 GMT on 22 November.

Ms Dingley had started walking from Benasque in Spain on Saturday and had a plan to spend Sunday night at Refuge Venasque in France, Mr Colegate said."​

Durham van traveller Esther Dingley missing in Pyrenees

The one thing I’m certain of in this case, is whilst she could have reached her campervan- she didn’t ( there would have been some evidence of her being there), but that doesn’t negate the fact she could have tried to reach her campervan as she did have enough time.

 

[Ruthbullock]

Italics mine. For the good of the order, I'll throw in right here that there had to have been <1.5 hours before dark, because she was headed into that deep valley. An hour's hike was going to put her in darkness at the bottom.

But you must also acknowledge, whilst not ideal, you can traverse a reasonable flat route in the dark with just rabbit vision (provide nothing distracts you)
ETA as a teenager pitch black sand dunes, forests and beach were our journey home, moonlight was our friend (and that was in the days before mobiles)

 

[RickshawFan]

But you must also acknowledge, whilst not ideal, you can traverse a reasonable flat route in the dark with just rabbit vision (provide nothing distracts you)
ETA as a teenager pitch black sand dunes, forests and beach were our journey home, moonlight was our friend (and that was in the days before mobiles)

Actually, I vehemently disagree. It's a steep trail (at one point with cables for assistance) and not at all flat, it's zigzag, there's scree underfoot, trails are unclear because of terrain, and there are mini-lakes that you can step off the trail and right into. Then there are the rocky areas where water feeds the lake near the refuge.
I have trouble navigating that stuff even with a headlamp. I've had to bivouac on a day hike a mile from town when I couldn't see more than about 2 steps in front of me. I had no idea what I was walking into or on or where. I was practically tripping over my feet. Despite my headlamp. Luckily, I had my 10 essentials. It wasn't fun, but I was safe.
The odds of having an accident in the dark in the area between the Pic and the Refuge are colossal. IMO. You miss a zigzag, and you're toast.

IME people with blue eyes have a much harder time seeing in the dark than folks with brown eyes. Anyone else come across this?

 

[otto]

Italics mine. For the good of the order, I'll throw in right here that there had to have been <1.5 hours before dark, because she was headed into that deep valley. An hour's hike was going to put her in darkness at the bottom.

Each day, new articles are released with modified information that point away from hiker error. This is understandable coming from family who desperately want her to be alive. Hiker error drastically reduces that possibility.

 

[Ruthbullock]

Actually, I vehemently disagree. It's a steep trail (at one point with cables for assistance) and not at all flat, it's zigzag, there's scree underfoot, trails are unclear because of terrain, and there are mini-lakes that you can step off the trail and right into. Then there are the rocky areas where water feeds the lake near the refuge.
I have trouble navigating that stuff even with a headlamp. I've had to bivouac on a day hike a mile from town when I couldn't see more than about 2 steps in front of me. I had no idea what I was walking into or on or where. I was practically tripping over my feet. Despite my headlamp. Luckily, I had my 10 essentials. It wasn't fun, but I was safe.
The odds of having an accident in the dark in the area between the Pic and the Refuge are colossal. IMO. You miss a zigzag, and you're toast.

IME people with blue eyes have a much harder time seeing in the dark than folks with brown eyes. Anyone else come across this?

I have blue eyes, so I disagree as I have spent may a teenage evening walking across land that probably wasn’t the most ideal. However the scree and zig zag landscape would have been down well before dark, so we aren’t discussing that landscape, but the undulating lower landscape. The only reason to discuss the scree landscape is if she spoke to her partner and then sat up on the peak for half an hour to watch the sunset (which may be a dream, but then you would mention, or at least post a sunset picture). I’m doubtful she did that, I admit I can’t be certain, but I’m doubtful.