Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #2

[j_in_c]

Couldn't she eat snow? I remember eating snow as a child and it doesn't appear to have caused any harm.

This is generally recommended against not due to the snow being harmful, but due to the threat of hypothermia. I also don't think with all the water sources around that snow would be a first choice.

 

[j_in_c]

I understand that in places like California hiking deaths in water are frequent but from my experience these alpine lakes are carved from glaciers and are actually quite scooped out and shallow around the edges. You wouldn’t want to swim in them even in summer because they are always freezing cold. It would be easy to take water from the edge but it would be safer to find a moving water source like a stream.

In Yosemite, for sure, the rapid rivers and waterfalls claim many lives, I am less certain how often a lake claims the life of a hiker? (although I am sure it has happened).
IMO - the most likely theory is a delay of some sort (minor ankle roll, side venture to a different viewpoint, etc) caused her to end up travelling in darkness which ended up with her off-route and somehow out of the search zone. I have to assume she had the headlamp and phone with her, but she may not have wanted to slow down to get those things out (or to notify Dan that she was hiking in the dark and potentially lost). Headlamps are great for watching your footing, but useless for finding navigational landmarks. I would put ended up in a body of water right after that though as next most likely.

 

[Rhomal]

Well... this one will break your heart and lift your soul, all at the same time. Sometimes amazing people do truly amazing things on this forum. Make a cuppa and read from the start:

Found Deceased - UK - Susan McLean, 61, U.S. tourist, Aberfeldy, Scotland, 17 May 2015

You said to make a cuppa and read this thread... two hours later and my sons are asking where their dinner is!! Amazing story. Thanks for sharing.

 

[RedHaus]

Well... this one will break your heart and lift your soul, all at the same time. Sometimes amazing people do truly amazing things on this forum. Make a cuppa and read from the start:

Found Deceased - UK - Susan McLean, 61, U.S. tourist, Aberfeldy, Scotland, 17 May 2015

Thank you so much @CoverMeGagney for sharing the link to this WS sleuthing, including on the ground boots by some incredible women and volunteers. I did as you suggested - read the thread from post #1 to #858, and was up until 4am this morning doing so. It is a gripping story that like you say, is both up lifting and tragic.

I am completely overwhelmed with both the love and the anguish of Susan McLean's story. And to have family and dear friends engaged in the WS discussions and sleuthing process was very, very special. As a new WS member, I learned a lot. The SM case may have given me a few more thoughts for the ED case that I need to process before I say anything.

But in the meantime - in the SM case, I saw that a long time profiling expert-WS'er, mountain misst, was brought into the fold (by perhaps you!?), and I don't know if she was able to contribute anything to the SM case (it was solved shortly after she was engaged). I wonder if mountain misst could help with ED's case if she is still a WS'er?

 

[RickshawFan]

Couldn't she eat snow? I remember eating snow as a child and it doesn't appear to have caused any harm.

In a word: hypothermia.

 

[RickshawFan]

The lakes are quite close to the trail and there is often streams which the water is clean and suitable for drinking. I’ve hiked in the alps before and drank from them the entire time.

Wild water is not potable. Period.
Yes, in the past, it was great to mosey up to a stream in the Alps, lie on the bank, and gulp its deliciousness, but now there is contamination everywhere, even on glaciers. All over the world.
Sure, you might not get sick at a given spot; but there's no way to know.
Besides, these days, filters come light and cheap. There's really not a good reason to carry one.

 

[Grouse]

I think it’s true she made two ascents but personally I find it an odd thing to do. I like hiking, but after reaching a summit I tend to want to move on to another one rather than do the same one twice.

But we know from past posts that she had a liking to do this when she found a mountain she really liked. I can relate to it, there's a particular one in the UK that I have returned to many to many times, once climbed it on 3 consecutive weekends even though I had choice of many others and even though some of my friends said I was a bit mad for doing.

 

[RickshawFan]

Firstly I won’t add to the speculation because I have no idea how or why ED is missing other that I suspect an accident, somewhere in the general vicinity of her last photo.

Reading through all of the post there is one issue that I see as factually incorrect which is the light levels. I mentioned this before but I think it is probably buried in the first thread.

Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020

I’ve added some images and links which I hope will be helpful.

I agree the valleys are darker and that fading light is risky in the event of a mishap but I do not see darkness as a primary cause.

It was not dark at 5.30pm.

I took this photo from my house (100km away) just after 5.30pm this evening. The pyramid-shaped peak is the Pic di Midi Bigorre which is about 50km NW of the Pic do Sauvegarde.

The other photo is a webcam from Plateau du Clot (5000ft) Pont D’Espagne at about 6pm 5000ft. This is over to the west.
Cauterets, vos vacances à la montagne été comme hiver.

I’ve tried to keep this brief so if you have any questions, chip in.

It looks like you're not in a valley when you're taking the photograph? The point is, tall mountains loom over the valley where the Refuge is situated. Tall mountains obscure sunlight on the valley floor. And, yes, you can be in a deep valley, and see light behind a mountain far, far, away, but that doesn't mean it's not dark where you're standing.

 

[Grouse]

Couldn't she eat snow? I remember eating snow as a child and it doesn't appear to have caused any harm.

Maybe but are some actually thinking that she ran out of water and had a hydration problem based merely on her casually enquiring about a piece of fruit?? With her having made umpteen previous successful multi day solo hikes in the Pyrenees?

 

[Grouse]

It looks like you're not in a valley when you're taking the photograph? The point is, tall mountains loom over the valley where the Refuge is situated. Tall mountains obscure sunlight on the valley floor. And, yes, you can be in a deep valley, and see light behind a mountain far, far, away, but that doesn't mean it's not dark where you're standing.

The valley between the peak and the refuge runs west to east, so while there would be some shadows the ambient light levels would have been pretty good at that time of day.

 

[RickshawFan]

Although the valley might look like easy walking from above, this is not easy terrain. See the Refuge: 6 — Postimages in this blog: Pyrenees

And see how there's water in that rocky area? That's a great place if you have a water filter. It's not good water without a filter.

 

[RickshawFan]

Maybe but are some actually thinking that she ran out of water and had a hydration problem based merely on her casually enquiring about a piece of fruit?? With her having made umpteen previous successful multi day solo hikes in the Pyrenees?

Yes.

 

[Recliner]

It looks like you're not in a valley when you're taking the photograph? The point is, tall mountains loom over the valley where the Refuge is situated. Tall mountains obscure sunlight on the valley floor. And, yes, you can be in a deep valley, and see light behind a mountain far, far, away, but that doesn't mean it's not dark where you're standing.

No I'm not in a valley, but I've walked in those mountains and although you can be in the shade of the mountains at that time of the evening it is not darkness rather twilight. There is still reasonable visibility albeit diminishing. I was just concerned that for people here unfamiliar with the Pyrenees and these latitudes the image conjured was one of night-like darkness when that just isn't the case. Also the webcams show a reasonable level of visibility.

 

[Grouse]

Yes.

LOL!

 

[otto]

Firstly I won’t add to the speculation because I have no idea how or why ED is missing other that I suspect an accident, somewhere in the general vicinity of her last photo.

Reading through all of the post there is one issue that I see as factually incorrect which is the light levels. I mentioned this before but I think it is probably buried in the first thread.

Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020

I’ve added some images and links which I hope will be helpful.

I agree the valleys are darker and that fading light is risky in the event of a mishap but I do not see darkness as a primary cause.

It was not dark at 5.30pm.

I took this photo from my house (100km away) just after 5.30pm this evening. The pyramid-shaped peak is the Pic di Midi Bigorre which is about 50km NW of the Pic do Sauvegarde.

The other photo is a webcam from Plateau du Clot (5000ft) Pont D’Espagne at about 6pm 5000ft. This is over to the west.
Cauterets, vos vacances à la montagne été comme hiver.

I’ve tried to keep this brief so if you have any questions, chip in.

I've been wondering about the length of time between sunset and full darkness. In Canada, we have sunset and it seems like about 20 minutes to full darkness. When I travel to Mexico, it's seems like sunset means instant darkness.

On the French side of the border in middle of the mountain range, would the mountain be in shade at 5PM, in twilight at 5:30 and full darkness 20 minutes later?

 

[Andreee]

Although the valley might look like easy walking from above, this is not easy terrain. See the Refuge: 6 — Postimages in this blog: Pyrenees

And see how there's water in that rocky area? That's a great place if you have a water filter. It's not good water without a filter.

Also, did I read that the water in those small pools are very deep?

 

[otto]

Pyrenees sunset and sunrise video.
Just guessing, but this looks like Port de Venasque at sunset.

 

[otto]

Looking at the routes from Port de Venasque to the Refuge de Venasque, there are two options: upper trail, and lower trail near the lake.

The time would be roughly 5PM, assuming all was well so far. She would be in shade because it was 30 minutes from sunset. It would be colder in the shade, 5° C (41° F).



Archive météo 42.7°N 0.64°E



Boums de Venasque - Bagnères de Luchon



Refuge de Venasque Pic de Sauvegarde Hospice de France GPS track, route, trail

 

[Mind your biscuits]

See also Libby Squire’s thread - a local member did Libby’s whole route plus possible variants of it, on a bike with a go-pro camera on his head. Poor fella even got punched in a road rage incident, on film.

But I’m not a big fan of mountains, so bagsy not me.

Yup, that was @Strontium69, he ended up in the hospital after a getting knocked off of his bike and punched by the driver. Poor guy, talk about taking one for the team! Moo.

 

[RickshawFan]

Looking at the routes from Port de Venasque to the Refuge de Venasque, there are two options: upper trail, and lower trail near the lake.

The time would be roughly 5PM, assuming all was well so far. She would be in shade because it was 30 minutes from sunset. It would be colder in the shade, 5° C (41° F).

View attachment 276537

Archive météo 42.7°N 0.64°E

View attachment 276534

Boums de Venasque - Bagnères de Luchon

View attachment 276533

Refuge de Venasque Pic de Sauvegarde Hospice de France GPS track, route, trail

Yikes, that middle photo.

I had noticed previously—and this photo reminded me—that from above you can see very clearly what's underwater at the margins of the lake. SAR evidently had access to drones, too, so that could have put them directly overhead. This means, if ED fell into the water, she must have fallen into a deep part. Otherwise, she'd be visible. The bottom of that cliff.....