State Motion to recover Investigative Costs

[RR0004]

In our lawyers thread MH put this statute in a link. I read that statute and it is very very interesting. I suggest reading it, although it is not an easy read and it is very long.

I don't have any problem with restitution for lying, or other crimes, in this case or others.

What I think the precedent that may be set here is that, any state will be able to tack a lying charge on with any other charges (be they drugs, murder, fraud, kidnap) and providing they obtain a conviction on the lying charge, the defendant even though they may be innocent of all charges aside from lying, they will have to pay for the states entire investigation. Why might someone lie initially, i.e. cheating on wife or husband, embarrassment, afraid of police, etc, and none of these reasons may have to do with the charge of drugs that they ended up not being convicted of, yet if the state proved they lied initially, the state could then charge them with investigating them for the drugs that they were not guilty of. There are many other scenarios that have nothing to do with murder, or the most hated woman in America, or bad verdicts, that could be affected in the future based on what HHBP rules on this.

As always, my entire post is my opinion only.

I believe that if you lie in the course of an investigation there should be punishment...and restitution. I know that Judge Perry will be able to sift through it all and make a wise decision (fingers and toes crossed).

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

I just went out to Ebay to peek at that sweater that's up for auction for 5K and I posed the following question to the seller after reading the description of the item.

Description:

A member of the Casey Anthony defense team was instructed on day one of the Caylee Anthony Murder trial in Orlando Florida to give her Sweater to Casey to wear in Court. Casey was cold in the Court room and Jose Beaz asked one of his Legal Aides to give her sweater to Casey. Casey Wore this Sweater through Opening Statements and through-out the entire trial. She can be seen wearing it on all Court footage. She wore it alomst every day. It has not been washed and has been perserved since Casey herself returned it to the Legal Assisant.

Question posed to seller:

If I understand your listing for this item correctly, this sweater is in the possession of the legal aide that lent it to Casey and they were on the defense team, correct? Ms. Anthony is fighting through attorneys as we speak to NOT have to reimburse Florida for court costs and yet there are items being sold on Ebay by members of her defense team?

____________________________________________

I'll probably get canned from Ebay but, I just couldn't hold my tongue. Unbelievable?

The sweater for sale looks like someone trying to make a buck. I like the question you asked the seller though. Earlier someone said they even wanted the buyer to pay 25$ shipping and handling.

LDB was very professional today, as always. I look forward to the day she writes her memoirs, because I am dying to know what her thoughts are regarding this circus of a case. It will be interesting to see how persuasive her agruments were today, when HHBP rules on this hearing.

 

[aspiring drifter]

just wanted to jump in real quick and ask, is it just me or does anyone else feel a slight shock when watching these hearings again?

 

[Velouria]

I just went out to Ebay to peek at that sweater that's up for auction for 5K and I posed the following question to the seller after reading the description of the item.

Description:

A member of the Casey Anthony defense team was instructed on day one of the Caylee Anthony Murder trial in Orlando Florida to give her Sweater to Casey to wear in Court. Casey was cold in the Court room and Jose Beaz asked one of his Legal Aides to give her sweater to Casey. Casey Wore this Sweater through Opening Statements and through-out the entire trial. She can be seen wearing it on all Court footage. She wore it alomst every day. It has not been washed and has been perserved since Casey herself returned it to the Legal Assisant.

Question posed to seller:

If I understand your listing for this item correctly, this sweater is in the possession of the legal aide that lent it to Casey and they were on the defense team, correct? Ms. Anthony is fighting through attorneys as we speak to NOT have to reimburse Florida for court costs and yet there are items being sold on Ebay by members of her defense team?

____________________________________________

I'll probably get canned from Ebay but, I just couldn't hold my tongue. Unbelievable?

Ooh, good one. :highfive:

This is the same type of shilling that OJ did. Third parties sold his sports memorabilia and autographs for a percentage of the take so he could avoid paying Fred Goldman.

Of course, we all know how well that worked out for OJ. KC, I wish you the same richly deserved outcome.

 

[RR0004]

CM said something today that struck my funny bone. Complaining about KC spending 3 years in jail, she could have been out working. Truth is if her DT knew Caylee's death was an accident they were the one's who were constantly delaying the trial, running up bills for the State. One excuse after another. SA said they were ready for trial early on. The time she spent in jail however was towards her conviction of lying and stealing. What would motivate an attorney to drag a case out as long as he could when he knew he could win with an accidential death theory?

I don't think anyone should get away with lying to LE to this degree. It's time we stopped this type of behavior and made people accountable for their actions. jmo

Well, if you consider what CM said that it took Casey a loooong time to assist in her defense you might have his explanation as to why she sat there all that time. It led me to believe that she woke up one day and confessed to what actually happened. Yeah, right.

 

[allycat1208]

:floorlaugh: Oh strawberry, you weren't the only one!

Listening to today's proceedings, I was visualizing a cross somewhere between Walter Brennan and Charlie Brown's teacher whenever CM spoke. And as for his demeanor - pompous as always...

I didn't realize there were any proceedings today. This was for the investigation costs? What happened?

 

[RR0004]

I don't think HHBP will let her leave empty handed. I do think he will issue an order for her to pay some of the costs. In fact, I think he will make her pay as many of the costs he feels he legally can, according to the law.

He may smack her down with the entire half a million, but if everyone that has threatened truly boycotts anything KC, the smack down will get little results. She is the most hated woman in America, with no diploma, and who would hire her anyway, even if she gets her GED and some college. Sure, sometime maybe 10 years down the road, she may be able to live a semi normal life, but with her education, a half dozen felonies, 4 misdemeanors, and a not so great reputation, her chances of any kind of income above poverty level is slim to none, provided the majority holds on to their hatred and enforces the boycott.

The same will go for the civil suits. If they win the suits against her, they will get a judgement, but again, she is indigent, and you can't squeeze blood from a turnip. Her life will likely never be what most of us would call normal, and with hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt hanging over her head, what motivation does she really have in trying to make something of herself. No matter how successful she became, she would still be living at the poverty level, because the judgements would take all her money.

Do I feel sorry for her. NO. I do feel sorry for the taxpayers of Florida, and for any people that will not get the help they may have gotten from TES because KC couldn't pay back what TES spent searching for Caylee.

As always, my entire post is my opinion only.

I think even CM knew that something would be coming. I was quite amused at his throwing out different dates toward the end of the hearing.
Again, fingers and toes crossed.

 

[RR0004]

I didn't realize there were any proceedings today. This was for the investigation costs? What happened?

The hearing was streamed...and you can watch it now (link here somewhere). IMHO...nothing happened...except the usual stuff that happens at hearings. JP said he would try to respond to the State's motion by the 22nd (he'll be busy with over 20 trials).

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

I didn't realize there were any proceedings today. This was for the investigation costs? What happened?

In a nutshell, LDB laid out the costs the states would like the judge to order KC to pay. Roughly 1/2 million dollars. CM argued that some of the costs were not related to the charges KC was convicted of. HHBP said, Okie Dokie then, I will give my ruling on the 21st? (not sure about the date) of this month. Very little case law available to guide the judge.

 

[allycat1208]

The hearing was streamed...and you can watch it now (link here somewhere). IMHO...nothing happened...except the usual stuff that happens at hearings. JP said he would try to respond to the State's motion by the 22nd (he'll be busy with over 20 trials).

This was in regards to investigative costs?

 

[allycat1208]

In a nutshell, LDB laid out the costs the states would like the judge to order KC to pay. Roughly 1/2 million dollars. CM argued that some of the costs were not related to the charges KC was convicted of. HHBP said, Okie Dokie then, I will give my ruling on the 21st? (not sure about the date) of this month. Very little case law available to guide the judge.

Ha ha! I like your okie dokie explanation!

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

I think even CM knew that something would be coming. I was quite amused at his throwing out different dates toward the end of the hearing.
Again, fingers and toes crossed.

I'm fairly certain HHBP will order KC to pay (I just have no idea how much), and the dates CM was throwing out there were his way of trying to give the judge some possibilities (favoring the defense of course).

It is par for the course that it is unusual that the state is asking for what they are asking for, when there have been so many unusual happenings in this case from the beginning.

 

[RR0004]

I'm fairly certain HHBP will order KC to pay (I just have no idea how much), and the dates CM was throwing out there were his way of trying to give the judge some possibilities (favoring the defense of course).

It is par for the course that it is unusual that the state is asking for what they are asking for, when there have been so many unusual happenings in this case from the beginning.

Oh, I got it...just seemed after all the bluster he was actually resigned that it will indeed happen...to some extent.

 

[allycat1208]

In a nutshell, LDB laid out the costs the states would like the judge to order KC to pay. Roughly 1/2 million dollars. CM argued that some of the costs were not related to the charges KC was convicted of. HHBP said, Okie Dokie then, I will give my ruling on the 21st? (not sure about the date) of this month. Very little case law available to guide the judge.

A half a million dollars! I'm surprised actually they asked for that much but I'm glad. I bet you no matter what HHBP decides on, it will be appealed anyway!

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

My sister has a granddaughter that was born about a month before Caylee was born. She bore a striking resemblance to Caylee. The very first time I saw Caylee's photo on TV, I did a doubletake, and listened intently until I confirmed that this was not my great niece that was missing. Today, when I looked at a recent photo of my great niece, I was looking at a little girl who looks very much like Caylee would have. Because of this strong resemblance, the tragic story of Caylee Marie will always tug at my heart, every time I see my great niece or a picture of her. Because of my beliefs, I can take solace in knowing Caylee is out of harms way, and in the company of angels.

Although I feel deep sorrow about Caylee's tragedy, I have never let it guide my thoughts when I look at the circumstances surrounding this tragedy. After all I have read in docs, depos, etc. I do believe it is possible that the majority is right, and that KC murdered Caylee. The big difference between me and the majority is that I also believe it is equally possible that the majority is incorrect, and that KC did not murder Caylee. I have maintained these contradictory beliefs since the release of the first major doc dump. This doesn't make me the enemy, nor does it make me a bad person. It does make me agree with the verdict however, because I do not believe the state proved beyond a reasonable doubt that KC was responsible for the tragedy that took Caylee's life.

I believe the state did their best, as did LE, the FBI, the CSI's etc. I believe the jury did not find proof beyond a reasonable doubt. I believe the DT did their best. There are no winners here. Caylee is dead, and there can never be any justice found in the death of a 2 year old child.

If our system elicited the incorrect verdict, and the majority is right, KC will have her judgement day sometime in the future, as we all will. If the verdict was correct, and Caylee's death was a tragic accident, then I repeat there can never be any justice found in the death of a 2 year old child.

Some of the TH's today were saying they thought the state of Florida trying to get a half a million from KC is sour grapes. MN was solidly on the states side, and thinks HHBP should smack her down with the entire half million. Some of them think along the same lines as I do, that she should pay for the costs that proved her lying convictions, but how much that is, well, I am smart enough to defer to the honorable JBP for that

Without numerous cases to study, I think HHBP has his work cut out for him trying to find the laws that will support his decision. LDB did not give him a lot of caselaw to study, and the DT could not find anything of substance either.

At least we will know HHBP's decision in less than 3 weeks, and considering the months and years we have had to wait on many motions and such in this case, 3 weeks is a walk in the park. I am looking forward to his decision, and his citing of the laws that led him to that decision.

As always, my entire post is my opinion only

 

[azwriter]

Casey, IMO, is a liar and a murderer. It's LE's duty to look for a missing child which they thought Caylee was, based on Casey's lies. Why would they want to be reimbursed for looking for a missing child. It's their job. Let's say for argument's sake Caylee was found alive and well. Should they/LE be reimbursed?

I can understand you questioning the reason behind charging Casey for the cost of the work the cops had to do in finding a missing little girl.

These costs are based on the lies Casey told and was convicted of. Her lies sent the cops looking into the exsistence of a "fake" kidnapping. The expenses mounted up because of the lies she told that Caylee wasn't just a missing child, but one who had been kidnapped by a specifc person. Her lies sent the searches and investigations in an entirely different direction in any hopes of finding Caylee.

Had she said in the beginning that her daughter drown, as her defense revealed when her trial began, those searches would not have been done and there would be no expenses for those searches.

I am of the understanding that when a person lies to the police, they have to pay for the expense those lies cost the state's law enforcement.
jmo

 

[LancelotLink]

Good Goobly-Goo! Trying to watch the hearing on WFTV is proving to be a taxing experience. Part one the sound cuts out, making you suddenly appreciate the poor sound quality that had been there before. Part Two, ok. Part Three stops in the middle and goes back to part one, with sound. Good luck!!

 

[LancelotLink]

I can understand you questioning the reason behind charging Casey for the cost of the work the cops had to do in finding a missing little girl.

These costs are based on the lies Casey told and was convicted of. Her lies sent the cops looking into the exsistence of a "fake" kidnapping. The expenses mounted up because of the lies she told that Caylee wasn't just a missing child, but one who had been kidnapped by a specifc person. Her lies sent the searches and investigations in an entirely different direction in any hopes of finding Caylee.

Had she said in the beginning that her daughter drown, as her defense revealed when her trial began, those searches would not have been done and there would be no expenses for those searches.

I am of the understanding that when a person lies to the police, they have to pay for the expense those lies cost the state's law enforcement.
jmo

One thing I noticed that was missing from the testimony was how involved her lies were. Each lie had a sprinkle of some truth and that makes it harder to track the rat. Even her mother egged it on with her post=it notes and re-working the LE calendar of events with Tampa and Hard Rock, etc. This was full on lying and full on trying to divert the investigation. Again, I hope this dove tails and lands a big ole pile on all those responsible..

 

[azwriter]

One thing I noticed that was missing from the testimony was how involved her lies were. Each lie had a sprinkle of some truth and that makes it harder to track the rat. Even her mother egged it on with her post=it notes and re-working the LE calendar of events with Tampa and Hard Rock, etc. This was full on lying and full on trying to divert the investigation. Again, I hope this dove tails and lands a big ole pile on all those responsible..

Oh yes, Lancelot, Casey's was questioned by the cops early on in order for them to gather information to find her child and the person who "took" her. Casey was very specific about the time, place and the name of the person she claimed took her daughter. She laid it all out very carefully and it was all a lie. The person she had cops looking for never exsisted.

And you are so right to include her parents in fostering this false kidnapping tale. And, no one can make me believe George and Cindy believed the Nanny story from the first minute it spilled from Casey's lips.

Enjoyed your post.
jmo

 

[Well Done 99]

One thing I noticed that was missing from the testimony was how involved her lies were. Each lie had a sprinkle of some truth and that makes it harder to track the rat. Even her mother egged it on with her post=it notes and re-working the LE calendar of events with Tampa and Hard Rock, etc. This was full on lying and full on trying to divert the investigation. Again, I hope this dove tails and lands a big ole pile on all those responsible..

Shame the rat didn't simply stop at some stage, just as she did in the hallway at Universal, and say "ok, it's not true".
Instead, it was lie on top of lie on top of lie ... to the point where it had 'snowballed out of control' and there WAS no turning back.