Suspect #3: True or False

[canadiangirl]

Ummm I thought at the last presser there was video evidence that someone followed the truck in an SUV? A 3rd maybe 4th. They were unsure how many were in the 2nd car. So there has to be a min of one.

 

[ArianeEmory]

Yeah, I've pretty much given up trying to figure this one out.

 

[Pink Panther]

-- what I find is after following some USA trials where everything is public knowledge ... Not hearsay but fact, we in Canada tend to assume more due to lack of inside info. It will all come out in trial. Oh I wish it were televised! We have no way of finding out what DM has disclosed and it sucks. The 3 rd suspect ordeal is somewhat understandable and equally crazy!

What I find is that often, we are not privy to information either before, during or after trial. Remember Homolka's deal?

"Homolka stated to investigators that Bernardo had abused her, and that she had been an unwilling accomplice to the murders. As a result, she struck a deal with prosecutors for a reduced prison sentence of 12 years in exchange for a guilty plea for manslaughter.
However, videotapes of the crimes were later found that demonstrated that she was a more active participant than she had claimed. As a result, the deal that she had struck with prosecutors was dubbed in the Canadian press the "Deal with the Devil"."

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karla_Homolka"]Karla Homolka - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

[Pink Panther]

I think it's quite telling that when LE begins to "backtrack" that there might not be a suspect # 3 many still believe that there is and that LE might be dealing with him or her for information. No surprise if that turns out to be the case. No surprise if it doesn't and there is no #3.

moo

 

[jash]

Ummm I thought at the last presser there was video evidence that someone followed the truck in an SUV? A 3rd maybe 4th. They were unsure how many were in the 2nd car. So there has to be a min of one.

Well they are saying MS may have exited TB's truck at some point and got into the Yukon to follow behind. It would be helpful if we knew where the video evidence came from (i.e. Ancaster or Brantford) and the timestamp.

 

[Alethea Dice]

I was looking for older articles when they first talked about the second vehicle. They all say basically the same thing.

“Video evidence that we've now recovered shows that when Mr. Bosma's vehicle left his residence, there was a second vehicle following,” Kavanagh said.

http://www.cbc.ca/hamilton/news/story/2013/05/14/hamilton-bosma-search-kitchener-waterloo.html

Police are also looking for at least one more person, as video evidence shows another vehicle following Bosma's pickup truck when he left on the test drive, Kavanagh said.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/05/14/tim-bosma-dead-hamilton-police_n_3272365.html

Kavanagh said they were able to retrieve video surveillance which shows a second vehicle followed the three men in the truck as it left the residence.

http://www.cp24.com/news/at-least-two-other-suspects-sought-in-bosma-murder-investigation-1.1280534

Police say video evidence shows Bosma, 32, was followed from his home by an SUV-type vehicle when he took two men for a test drive May 6 in a truck he was trying to sell online.

http://www.guelphmercury.com/news-story/3246435-bosma-found-dead-in-waterloo-region/

I guess they didn't drive very far before one of them jumped out of the truck and hopped in the Yukon.

 

[canadiangirl]

Thanks for all the links. This is exactly what was said alllll along. So what gives?????

 

[Carli]

Well they are saying MS may have exited TB's truck at some point and got into the Yukon to follow behind. It would be helpful if we knew where the video evidence came from (i.e. Ancaster or Brantford) and the timestamp.

Just for the sake of argument - especially so in light of the new information that the Yukon was possibly driving itself somehow and discarding that potential for the time being - what's to say it wasn't DM who got out of TB's vehicle to follow behind. After all, it WAS his vehicle. What's to say it wasn't MS who was considering buying this old Dodge Ram, not DM. Actually, who's to say anything with much certainty in this endlessly baffling case. IMO. It's even difficult to think outside the box on this one. There is no box. (Well, unless you want to presume that all the the participants are mind numblingly dumb.) IMO. Again Heinlein's Razor sophistication on his predecessors Occam and especially Hanlon applies: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity - but don't discount malice, either."

 

[CanuckSleuth]

"“As an investigator, you always talk about tunnel vision and I think it’d be tunnel vision for me to say that I definitely believe there’s a third person or to say there wasn’t,” Staff Sergeant Matt Kavanagh said Wednesday. “It’s possible that there’s only two involved and it’s also possible that there may have been a third. And so we’re looking into that and we still have some doors to shut, some avenues of investigation.”


When the whole paragraph is quoted, it implies that all possibilities are being considered.

When just the last two sentences are quoted, it implies that maybe there isn't a third suspect. Which, I think, has been twisted into saying LE says there isn't a third suspect. I don't believe that is what was said. JMO

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ird-suspect-in-bosma-killing/article12370401/

 

[Kimster]

Read this and adhere to the rules. :saber:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4472615&postcount=1"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Best Practices Dealing with your fellow posters[/ame]

 

[Blomquist]

I absolutely see that possibility, and note they also could have pulled over to where anybody (i.e. the murderer) was parked and waiting in any vehicle - not necessarily the Yukon. Sleuthers have picked up on more than one suspicious address fairly near the Bosma residence - although even the time of death remains relatively speculative, imo.

I agree there is so far no evidence insofar as what actually happened. There could have been opportunity for the truck to have been intercepted at any point along the route. I think where the phone was found could possibly have been where someone tossed it to leave a false trail. Other places near Bosma residence could have been where they went.... not so far away. Trailer could have been there or a similar trailer. Who's to say that TB was taken to the farm in his truck or the Yukon/SUV??? I see no evidence yet. I agree that time of death is speculative also... I have been told by someone in the business of undertaking that time cannot be isolated to the minute...moreso to the closest hour or two if that. Considering body was burned I doubt even that was a good possibilty.

 

[Blomquist]

Alternatively, it could mean that the Yukon was not the following vehicle, couldn't it? Correction - or at least the Yukon that was following was not the same as the one that belongs to DM.

Thats even if it was a Yukon...they said it was an SUV, so could have been a totally different vehicle belonging to someone we have not yet had identified.

 

[MuhGruff]

On those roads (i live close by) its easy to have a tail for kilometers. It's very plausible that the trailing vehicle was nothing more than a random travele. Some locals go fast and even at 90kph they stick right by your tail.

With that said it's possible the two went to Ancaster fairgrounds (or "enter nearby place here") then turned back at some point incompacitating TB along the way, possibly killing him by accident (the teaser theory would make sense here if they over did it). So they go back to TB house and get the suv (this wouldn't work if the suv followed them from the beginning).

Theory 3: there is a 3rd suspect and is working with police but I doubt that very much. Suspect 3 is just a driver and his/her Involvement is wide open.

Im giving up on this case until trial, its like a crossword with no clues

 

[ArianeEmory]

On those roads (i live close by) its easy to have a tail for kilometers. It's very plausible that the trailing vehicle was nothing more than a random travele. Some locals go fast and even at 90kph they stick right by your tail.

The only problem there is LE officially confirmed the chase vehicle as DM's blue Yukon.

http://www.therecord.com/sports-sto...spect-arrested-in-tim-bosma-murder-case-thir/

The second vehicle has now been identified as a dark blue GMC Yukon SUV owned by Millard. It has been seized and a warrant to search it has already been obtained, Kinsella said.

 

[kaley]

Thanks for all the links. This is exactly what was said alllll along. So what gives?????

Assuming the third suspect isn't in custody yet, maybe LE want suspect #3 to relax thinking that they are no longer looking for him/her. LE may have DNA of this third suspect from the Yukon and are waiting for them to get charged with something else so they can also nail them for this crime. IMO

 

[Solo712]

For me, the announcement by Kavanagh that there may not be a third suspect further calls into question his judgment. He assured everyone on May 21. there was no danger to the public and now, two weeks later, he is telling us that the investigation has not yet established the setting and the actors in the crime. So if he is not sure now that there was a third suspect (it was always a "suspect"), how could he have been sure before MS arrest this person (of whose existence he seemed to have been certain then) posed no danger to the public ? Does this makes sense to you ?

Not only did the lead investigator evidently jumped the gun by giving assurances, but - and that is perhaps much worse - he may have thrown a wrench into his own investigation by insisting that the 3rd person was a suspect in the case, when in fact - if this person even exists - he (she ?) may well have been an unwitting accessory. How much smarter it would have been for the investigators to call the putative 3rd person a POI, and sound as reassuring as possible that they did not believe he was involved in the conspiracy to murder TB. Now of course, if this person was involved in the murder, they would have not gotten a phone call, but if he was not materially involved beyond driving, he may well have decide to take the risk and give himself in. There was nothing to lose and much to gain by soft-treading the 3rd person's role or witness in the slaying.

Best,
J.

 

[Carli]

Much as I find the implications to be very worrying, I sense that LE may know the identities of Suspects 3 and possibly 4 but for some reason are not empowered or are otherwise unwilling to arrest him/her/them. MOO. If something like that is NOT the case, then there may be at least one unmanned SUV cruising the mean streets and byways of Southern Ontario, IMO.

 

[Archangel7]

The only problem there is LE officially confirmed the chase vehicle as DM's blue Yukon.

http://www.therecord.com/sports-sto...spect-arrested-in-tim-bosma-murder-case-thir/

The second vehicle has now been identified as a dark blue GMC Yukon SUV owned by Millard. It has been seized and a warrant to search it has already been obtained, Kinsella said.

On the subject of other suspect(s)and reading MSM reports with an absolute eye......There are few to none of the cases where everything is cut and dried with respect to the evidence and the people involved.

There is a huge difference in REALITY between, an investigator for example, having enough reasonable suspicion leading to probable cause in order to legally get a search warrant from a Judge AND that act actually making it to DISCOVERY as evidence to be used in prosecution of the case. There are many events in an investigation and are reported in the MSM that won't actually turn out to be evidence in the long run. Evidence is discovered however it is also obtained by elimination/deduction.

On the debate about #3 or not........Evidence will or won't support another suspect. Many cases I have personally dealt with in the past had what our agency called FNUMNULNU pronounced fahnu manu lanu literally meaning a First Name Unknown, Middle Name Unknown, Last Name Unknown.

Don't get caught up in an absolute interpretation of what MSN writes or how it's worded, reporters are largely lost on how investigations work.

I do understand and sympathize with your interpretation of the "reported facts."

 

[skatergirl]

[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9407421&postcount=156"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Canada -Timothy Bosma, 32, Hamilton Ontario, 6 May 2013 - #1[/ame]

This ad posted on kijiji was obviously made by someone close enough to SB to know what happened, at her home on the night TB took the 2 out for the test drive IMHO

 

[Archangel7]

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Canada -Timothy Bosma, 32, Hamilton Ontario, 6 May 2013 - #1

This ad posted on kijiji was obviously made by someone close enough to SB to know what happened, at her home on the night TB took the 2 out for the test drive IMHO

That's interesting....they recommend what to do if you find a phone(Tim's?) on the ground yet it (TB's phone) wasn't found until 2 days after this ad was published and they mention the fairgrounds area specifically.