Ted Bundy - Serial Killer - 1974-1978

[QueenD]

DNA profiling was first developed and successfully used in 1984 in England ... other countries then began experimenting with the science. In the 1970s, DNA profiling was science fiction and even after 1984, it took years before the statistics were accepted by the courts as a valid method for identification.

Wasn't Jeff Ashton (Casey Anthony prosecutor) the first to use it in the US and win a case? Or was it some other science, can't remember now.

 

[Herding Cats]

I will likely buy that book, as I have bought many others on Bundy.

In answer to a "sort of" question above, Bundy would never have confessed to killing little girls, because that, to him, was too dangerous to his own well being in several ways.

First, of course, that if it became known in prison that he had killed little girls (Burr, and subsequently Leach [of which he was convicted, but did not ever confess to]), his life was in danger because child murderers, at that time, were frowned upon in the strange hierarchy that is in place in prison. He likely would have run the risk of having his life snuffed out just because he killed a child...

Second, though, is because he saw himself as "normal" except for the one "dark, but potent" issue of necrophilia, and of murder. That is a claim he made in the Dobson tapes, which I am not sure I see as anything other than propaganda, and a last "F/U" to society...yet there are truths in those tapes, buried, as all Bundy's stuff is, and nestled between the lines.

Thirdly, I don't think he killed little girls as a primary thing. I do believe that when he killed little girls, it was because no victim of normal age (+16 years old, I suspect) was readily available, and/or he was unable to get to the victim of choice. They were 'seconds', I suppose you'd say...he couldn't get to whom he prefered, so he got who was available.

And I think that he also thought that killing children was "below" him. There was, and is, very little challenge for a predator in killing a child...he thought that he was above that sort of victimization, of that sort of murder. Yet, I know in my heart of hearts he did kill children, and likely several more than are publicly suspected.

Fourth, Bundy elected to have representation during the Leach trial, as opposed to representing himself, a huge change for him. Why? There were intriguing moments of self-revelation in the other trials, and it was dangerous for Bundy to argue for himself simply because it might somehow come across that he was the killer. And, I believe, it was also a way for him to not participate in the trial (or not as fully as he had when he was representing himself). To me, having representation on this trial is indication of something he was not willing to discuss...and that is, his killing of children/little girls.

And lastly, I think that he killed Kimberly Leach again because all the women in the area - and indeed in a lot of the US - were aware that this man had done this (the sorority house crimes and the ones several streets over literally minutes after the sorority house), and were on significantly higher alert than average, and presented a far more difficult target than usual. Bundy also could not have fled the area - he was having issues with getting cars (although he stole them, there was no money for gas, and to keep stealing cars is a dangerous indication of where he was heading...Cunanan found that out, too...) and thus couldn't get somewhere the heat was not as high, and find his victim there.

And lastly, I don't think he could tolerate his own mental image of someone who killed little girls. He had a very clear, definite victim ideology, and little girls (prepubescent and adolescent) were not his ideal victim.

All that being said, I believe that he did kill children, probably quite a few. He would never have confessed, however, for the reasons listed above. He did not want to be known as a killer of little girls; rather, he wanted to be known as a killer of women, if he wanted to be known as a killer at all. And so no confession would have ever come from him regarding that.

I have watched his face many times when confronted with Kimberly Leach's killing; his reactions are telling - body language is huge with someone like him, because things that come from his lips are lies in many, many instances. So watching his reaction, and seeing the way he responds to those questions, tells me that he was avoiding at all costs confessing to killing children/little girls.

Ted Bundy, long dead, is still a hugely fascinating subject for me. As stated previously, he was my first interest in serial killers, and one which I studied and looked at and thought hard about (and indeed, wrote about him in several college papers - one 71 pages long). He continues to intruige me, continues to frighten me, and continues to present an enigma of the utmost proportions.

Best-
Herding Cats

 

[Herding Cats]

One of the reasons I believe that Bundy was killing long before his first confessed killing, is this statement he made:

"And over a period of time, there would be less panic, there would be less confusion, there would be less fear and apprehension. There would be a faster regeneration period."
~"Ted Bundy: Conversations with a Killer", Michaud/Aynesworth

While he was "supposing" how a serial killer would develop, I think that this statement, along with several others, details Bundy's own development. The book does detail other conversations regarding initial attempts, or non-murder attacks, and alludes to a peeping tom/lurking attitude in a neighborhood. Bundy himself admits to roaming through his neighborhood, and, roaming at large, during his teenage years; further, in other statements from the same source, Bundy indicates that, over time, inhibitions were eroded by alchohol and practice/familiarity.

I know that there will never be a real count of Bundy's victims, even with the vial of blood found and the DNA profile developed. I know that some murders/disappearances will be attributed to Bundy, when he was not responsible (e.g. Kathy Devine, whose murderer was found to be William Cosden).

But I am one of those who believe that many dozens of women and girls lost their lives to the hands of this most vile monster, and I include Ann Marie Burr in those. I believe she was his first victim...and then he scared himself for a few years, and, like his quote above, he learned how to do things a bit more successfully, over time, and repeated non-murder attacks.

Bless all his victims, known and unknown, named and unnamed. You have not been forgotten.

Best-
Herding Cats

 

[JenniferTx]

One of the reasons I believe that Bundy was killing long before his first confessed killing, is this statement he made:

"And over a period of time, there would be less panic, there would be less confusion, there would be less fear and apprehension. There would be a faster regeneration period."
~"Ted Bundy: Conversations with a Killer", Michaud/Aynesworth

While he was "supposing" how a serial killer would develop, I think that this statement, along with several others, details Bundy's own development. The book does detail other conversations regarding initial attempts, or non-murder attacks, and alludes to a peeping tom/lurking attitude in a neighborhood. Bundy himself admits to roaming through his neighborhood, and, roaming at large, during his teenage years; further, in other statements from the same source, Bundy indicates that, over time, inhibitions were eroded by alchohol and practice/familiarity.

I know that there will never be a real count of Bundy's victims, even with the vial of blood found and the DNA profile developed. I know that some murders/disappearances will be attributed to Bundy, when he was not responsible (e.g. Kathy Devine, whose murderer was found to be William Cosden).

But I am one of those who believe that many dozens of women and girls lost their lives to the hands of this most vile monster, and I include Ann Marie Burr in those. I believe she was his first victim...and then he scared himself for a few years, and, like his quote above, he learned how to do things a bit more successfully, over time, and repeated non-murder attacks.

Bless all his victims, known and unknown, named and unnamed. You have not been forgotten.

Best-
Herding Cats

I agree with you about Ann Marie Burr being his first victim. I was always wondering if he would ever confess to killing her but he went to his grave with that information. Ted Bundy is the first serial killer I studied and I always thought it was strange the way Ted always blamed *advertiser censored* on the reason why he would kill. I think Ted had alot of anger in him at a very young age because he didn't really know who he was or who his mother was. I also think when Stephanie Brooks broke things off with him that just sent him into a rage. I think in Ted's twisted mind he was killing Stephanie over and over again with every murder. I was 18 when Ted was executed in Florida in 1989 and I always wondered why they didn't keep him alive to study him. I mean I believe he did deserve the death penalty but I think Ted would have confessed alot more if they would have kept him alive for a few more years to study him.

 

[21merc7]

I'm not sure he would have ever told about another child murder.

He was given time to talk or confess. He kept just messing with them, so he got no further delays in execution.

He was talking his own process when "helping". There was nothing else he could talk about. LE needed someone that may think like the killer they could not find at that time, that had a similar pattern, so Bundy was it.

I don't think he would confess to any other murders either. Jmo and all. I think he enjoyed what little game he had left, also don't think he could remember each and every one. A few serial killers have said it all becomes a blur. I agree each death was for the girl that broke up with him and for being lied to about his mom. So, all of them became just that, a blur, an inner rage and sense of betrayal and abandonment that was directed at really only one.

Just my thoughts.

I do hope more are found via his DNA and some closure comes for those sad families.

 

[neesaki]

Good Morning people.. Im curious as to how you have a guy locked up in jail for years before he was put to death and no one thought to take a blood sample for DNA later on surely they new they were developing new ways to catch criminals.

Heres a question for alot of you i would love to hear your own oppinions . Ted bundy was a main reason that they caught gary ridgeway . the detectives on the green river task force were stumped for years and years so they decided to ask ted for help and he told them that they needed to find a new body a body that was killed very recentlly but to leave her there and do not publicise that they found the body and if they wait he would come back and would have sex with them again. now on this body he didn;t but when he wa caught some one asked him hey gary did you ever go back like the next day or 2 to be with them again and he said yes almost every single time..so what i wanna know is the sickos like bundy the ones that are of genius IQ and maybe some that arent wouldnt it not be better to keep them in solitary 34 hours a day for all i care but this way to beable to pick thier brains or like bundy he wanted to help i think we should be doing this with certin ones instead on the Dp . we could be learning something about what to look for in a new killer ...what do u guys/girls think

From all I have read, the death penalty is much, much more costly than a sentence of life without parole.
Other than the cost to see it all the way through and implement it, there are also cited cases of Prosecutorial Misconduct that land innocent people on death row. Who knows how many innocent people actually have been killed by the State.

I fully realize that Ted Bundy was not one of the possible innocents. However, having the death penalty clears the path for the possibility of a wrongful execution. Something we as a society have to take into serious consideration. JMO

 

[Reader]

http://www.centurylink.net/news/rea...ass&action=2&lang=en&_LT=UNLC_USNWU00L2_UNEWS

TACOMA, Wash. (AP) — Louise Bundy, who was a staunch defender of her serial killer son, Ted Bundy, before he made a series of death-row confessions, has died. She was 88.

She died last month in her hometown of Tacoma after a long illness, The News Tribune newspaper reported Wednesday ( is.gd/G8BVv7).............

Her stance softened after Ted Bundy made a number of death-row confessions, the newspaper reported...........

Louise Bundy spoke with him twice on his execution day, telling him at the end of the second call, "You'll always be my precious son."................

 

[Reader]

http://blog.thenewstribune.com/crim...mother-tacoma-resident-louise-bundy-has-died/

The woman who gave birth to one of the nation’s most notorious serial killers and defended and loved him as only a mother could has died.

Louise Bundy of Tacoma was 88 when she passed away last month after a long illness.

Bundy was a married mother of five and working as a secretary at the University of Puget Sound in the mid-1970s when allegations against her son, Ted Bundy, turned her life upside down.

Authorities across the nation accused her eldest child in a string of gruesome killings. He ultimately confessed to murdering more than two dozen women and was executed in 1989 after being convicted of killing two Florida State University sorority members and a 12-year-old girl.

For many years, Louise Bundy refused to believe her son could be a killer.........................

 

[Mrs G Norris]

There by the grace of god go I.

RIP Louise Bundy.

 

[marycarney]

Can you imagine the awfulness of realizing what your child did? What a crushing burden she must have carried.

 

[STANDREID]

Wasn't Ted raised thinking this woman was his sister because he was born out of wedlock?

 

[EGirl]

There by the grace of god go I.

RIP Louise Bundy.

..but for the grace of GOD.

 

[Jan]

His mother was a victim too.

 

[Reader]

Wasn't Ted raised thinking this woman was his sister because he was born out of wedlock?

http://www.ask.com/wiki/Ted_Bundy

Bundy was born Theodore Robert Cowell at the Elizabeth Lund Home For Unwed Mothers (now the Lund Family Center[6]) in Burlington, Vermont on November 24, 1946 to Eleanor Louise Cowell (known for most of her life as Louise). The identity of his father has never been determined with certainty. His birth certificate assigns paternity to a salesman and Air Force veteran named Lloyd Marshall,[7] but Louise later claimed that she was seduced by "a sailor" whose name may have been Jack Worthington.[8] Years later, investigators would find no record of anyone by that name in Navy or Merchant Marine archives.[9] Some family members expressed suspicions that the father may actually have been Louise's own violent, abusive father, Samuel Cowell, though there was no direct evidence to support such speculation.[10]

For the first three years of his life Bundy lived in the Philadelphia home of his maternal grandparents, Samuel and Eleanor Cowell, who raised him as their son to avoid the social stigma that accompanied illegitimate birth at the time. Family, friends, and even young Ted were told that his grandparents were his parents and that his mother was his older sister. Eventually he discovered the truth, but how and when is not clear. He told his girlfriend that a cousin showed him a copy of his birth certificate after calling him a "*advertiser censored*",[11] but he told biographers Stephen Michaud and Hugh Aynesworth that he found the certificate himself.[12] Biographer and true crime writer Ann Rule, who knew Bundy personally, believes that he tracked down his original birth record in Vermont in 1969.[13] Bundy expressed a lifelong resentment toward his mother for lying about his true parentage and leaving him to discover it for himself.[14]

More at link...........

 

[Earth]

Well, Ted Bundy murdered at least 30 women in the 1970s, but where exactly did this come from?
Of course, you might say he was a psychopath. I do not deny that (I do not know if there were any tests), so I say it is fairly possible that he murdered far more than 30. Investigators estimate that he could have murdered 100.
I have scoured the Internet for missing and murder cases. Some are on the East Coast due to relations to Vermont. Now, some of these are extremely unlikely to have been committed by Bundy, but I will put ALL POSSIBLE CASES out there.
I got all the missing from NamUs, the rest from other sites.

Ann Marie Burr, 8, August 31 1961
Susan Pearson, 30, March 13 1966
Mary Greene, 34, December 10 1966
Lynn Bandringa, 21, May 29 1967
Deborah Spickler, 13, July 24 1968
Dixie Arensen, 20, August 25 1968
Mary Bostan, 23, September 1 1968
Verla Winter, 30/31, October 131968
Karen O’Donoghue, 25, July 2 1969
Cynthia Constantine, 15, July 11 1969
Niki Britten, 15, July 16 1969
Rosemary Calandriello, 17, August 25 1969
Cindy Mellin, 19, January 20 1970
Bertha Burke, 30, February 20 1970
Denise Sheehy, 16, July 7 1970
Jeanette Miller, 17, September 16 1970
Christine Eastin, 19, January 18 1971
Debra Pscholka, 12, June 5 1971
Barbara Bryson, 19, July 29 1971
Mary Wesolowski, 13, August 18 1971
Cathy Moulton, 16, September 24 1971
Lynda Hanley, 23, November 4 1971
Jaime Grissim, 16, December 7 1971
Lynn Schulze, 18, December 10 1971
Sherry Pickle, 15, May 16 1972
Alice Pereira, 5, July 7 1972
Paula Pope, 19, September 3 1972
Pamela Burrows, 24, 1973
Kathleen Rodgers, 16, March 3 1973
Althea Blankinship, 23/24, March 27 1973
Jeffrey Blankinship, 3, March 27 1973
Rory Kesinger, 24, May 27 1973
Barbara Tolbert, 22/23, June 1 1973
Rita Jolly, 17, June 23 1973
Rose Cole, 16, July 1 1973
Janice Pockett, 7, July 26 1973
Bonita Bickwit, 15, July 27 1973
Rochelle White, 19, July 30 1973
Carol Rodriguez, 29, August 4 1973
Vicki Hollar, 24, August 20 1973
Sheryl Tillinghast, 17, September 24 1973
Sandra Hopler, 18, September 29 1973
Kim Mallon, 13, September 30 1973
Dorothy Bois, 22, October 3 1973
Barbara Aleksivich, 24, October 3 1973
Deborah Tomlinson, 16, October 15 1973
Patricia Seelbaugh, 17, October 26 1973
Suzanne Justis, November 5 1973
Helen Harrington, 26-27, 1974
VickeLamberton, 24/25, February 1 1974
Donna Manson, 19, March 12 1974
Diane Gilchrist, 14, May 29 1974
Georgeann Hawkins, 18, June 11 1974
Margaret Fox, 14, June 24 1974
Linda Lovell, 25, June 27 1974
Carlene Brown, 19, July 4 1974
Rhonda Labbe, 17, August 7 1974
Colleen Burgess, 25, August 31 1974
Martha Morrison, 17, September 1 1974
Katherine Jones, 29, September 27 1974
Laurie Partridge, 17, December 4 1974
Sylvia Lwowski, 22, September 6 1975
Julie Cunningham, 26, March 15 1975
Denise Oliverson, 25, April 6 1975
Lynette Culver, 12, May 5 1975
Edna Thorne, 15, June 24 1975
Nancy Baird, 23, July 4 1975
Robyn Pettinato, 14, July 5 1975
Kristina Perkins, 25, September 10 1975
Teresa Rhodes, 13, September 27 1975
Cherrill Miller, 27, October 12 1975
Murdered
Lonnie Trumbell, June 23 1966, Seattle, Washington.
Joanne Dunham, 15, June 11 1968, Charleston, New Hampshire. Her body was found off a dirt road near Unity.
Debra Horn, 11, January 291969, Allenstown, New Hampshire. At home alone when she vanished. The only clue was a studded snowtire track. Her body was found on August 10th.
Susan Davis, 19, May 30 1969, Somers Point, New Jersey.
Elizabeth Perry, May 30 1969, Somers Point, New Jersey.
Jody Miller, 13, vanished June 21 1971, body discovered November 2 1971.
Rita Curran, 24, July 19 1971, Vermont.
Gloria Crummett, 16, July 26 1971, Reno, Nevada.
Jane Doe, found deceased October 6 1971, near Bedford, New Hampshire. Aged 25-35, may have had brown hair. 5’1 to 5’5, died between one and three months prior. Found at the end of Kilton Road.
Kathy Lynn Gloody, 13, November 21 1971, Franklin, New Hampshire. Her body was found the next day, in the woods by Franklin. Raped and strangled, suffered blunt force.
Starr Valley Jane Doe, found June 1972, white female aged 20 to 25, near Elko, Nevada.
Diane Compagna, 15, and Anne Psardelis, 15, July 12 1973, from Merrimack, last seen at Hampton Beach in New Hampshire. Found September 29 1973.
Kathleen Randall, 18, September 13 1972, Nashua, New Hampshire. Found October 1 1972 at a farm, on Route 111-A.
Brenda Joy Baker, 14, May 27 1974.
Thousand Springs Jane Doe, early 20s, found July 14 1974 near Wells, Nevada.
Carol L. Valenzuela, 20, August 2 1974, Washington.
Joanna Robinson, 23, in Oregon on or about August 9 1974, found along Interstate 80, near Reno, Nevada.
Mary Ann Pryor, 17, and Lorraine Kelly, 16, August 9 1974, New Jersey. On August 14, their bodies were discovered near Rolling Ridge Road in Montvale, New Jersey. They had been beaten, sexually assaulted and strangled.
Unidentified woman, body found October 1974, Washington.
Kim Benoit, 18, Florida, Massachusetts, November 1 1974, found November 16, strangled.
Katherine Kolodziej, 17, Cobleskill, New York, November 2 1974, her body found November 28 1974.
Melanie Suzanne Cooley, 18, April 15 1975, Colorado.
Gerri Ralston, 15, vanished May 21 1975, Clark County, Nevada. Found dead the next day.
Shelly Kay Robertson, 24, July 1 1975, Colorado.
Stephanie Olisky, 15, July 21 1975, Connecticut, died days later from head trauma.
Debbie Smith, 17, February 1976, Utah.

 

[starrlara]

Hi, I must say that several of these victims are NOT Ted Bundy's, and they are active homicide investigations with the Clark County Sheriffs Office in Vancouver, WA.
Carol L. Valenzuela (not killed by Ted Bundy but Warren Forrest). Warren Forrest will be brought up on more murder charges this year.

Google Jamie Grissim. She has website too at jamiegrissim dot com. She too is an active homicide investigation with the Clark County Sheriffs Office in Vancouver, Wa. I am actively in contact with them regarding Jamie, as she is and was my beloved older sister.

The unidentified girl found next to Carol L. Valenzuel is also NOT a Ted Bundy victim. The Clark County Sheriffs ruled out these girls as victims of Ted Bundy, as they even met with the Ted Bundy Task Force. These girls were killed the way Warren Forrest murdered the other girls, not the way Ted Bundy killed them.

Diane Gilchrist also was NOT killed by Ted Bundy, but by Warren Forrest. I have public sheriffs record documents that even say that.

Please be careful when naming girls as victims of Ted Bundy, as it hinders the justice for them. Be sure they are in fact victims of Ted Bundy, as these I mentioned are not.

I work closely with the Clark County Sheriffs in record to my missing murdered sister.

 

[Battlestar2680]

I am also compiling a list of potential Bundy victims, so I want to thank you for posting this, gives me something to go on and I'll post my list once I've done more research..I can tell you put a lot of time into this

 

[Battlestar2680]

Hi, I must say that several of these victims are NOT Ted Bundy's, and they are active homicide investigations with the Clark County Sheriffs Office in Vancouver, WA.
Carol L. Valenzuela (not killed by Ted Bundy but Warren Forrest). Warren Forrest will be brought up on more murder charges this year.

Google Jamie Grissim. She has website too at jamiegrissim dot com. She too is an active homicide investigation with the Clark County Sheriffs Office in Vancouver, Wa. I am actively in contact with them regarding Jamie, as she is and was my beloved older sister.

The unidentified girl found next to Carol L. Valenzuel is also NOT a Ted Bundy victim. The Clark County Sheriffs ruled out these girls as victims of Ted Bundy, as they even met with the Ted Bundy Task Force. These girls were killed the way Warren Forrest murdered the other girls, not the way Ted Bundy killed them.

Diane Gilchrist also was NOT killed by Ted Bundy, but by Warren Forrest. I have public sheriffs record documents that even say that.

Please be careful when naming girls as victims of Ted Bundy, as it hinders the justice for them. Be sure they are in fact victims of Ted Bundy, as these I mentioned are not.

I work closely with the Clark County Sheriffs in record to my missing murdered sister.

Hey Starrlara, I agree with you, but also want to point out that part of finding answers is sometimes finding the wrong ones, we don't mean to offend anyone, we want to help families get answers and I pray you get your answers about your sister.

 

[starrlara]

Thank you. Yes, I have. Jamie Grissim can be found on The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children too, even though she disappeared over 43 years ago. She was a child, and forever remains on their site, as long as she is an active case with the Clark County Sheriffs in Clark County, WA. Yes, I have done a lot of work for my sister. Thank you for mentioning that.

Jamie can also be found on Facebook at Finding Jamie Grissim

If you ever have information regarding the girls I mentioned above, please contact the Clark County, Washington Sheriffs.

Please go to Jamie's website and light a candle for her, and leave a note. Her website is www.jamiegrissim.com

Thanks for listening to me.
Starr

 

[Battlestar2680]

Starr, you work so hard for your sister and I truly pray you get answers. I will light a candle for her and keep her in my prayers, as well as you.