Ted Kennedy

[JBean]

This has been an interesting read. I would never wish illness on anyone and am opposed to the dp so there's that.
But what has been interesting is it almost sounds as though some of you are pleading the case that murderers should be given an opportunity to redeem themselves by trying to do good works out in society rather than going to prison. Do some of you think that if a murderer has the *potential* to do well if not incarcerated that we should give them a pass and let them repent in their own way?
skeery.

 

[kato]

Cancer in any form is not a punishment from God for something you did in your life. To say that Ted Kennedy is being punished for what he did to MaryJo by getting cancer is ridiculous. What pray tell did I do to deserve it!!!!

Yeah, like my aunt suffers from MS (wheelchair bound, can hardly talk anymore, etc.) thought God was punishing her for being such a rebel and hellion growing up. God does not work that way.

 

[eve]

There is no comparison.
What happened to Laura Bush could have happened to any of us as inexperienced teenage drivers and I'm sure she has wrestled her demons because it was an accident that she caused. I can't even imagine the guit I would feel.
However, the accident that he caused, he chose to run away from, then floated to dream land on his fluffly, gilded pillow and to this day has never shown even a hint of a guilt for what so ever, caused a girl - whose bright future floated away with the air from her lungs - to die in a watery grave when he could have saved her. NO comparison!

As for Pat Tillman....don't even go there. I knew Pat and his wife before Marie was even his wife. I worked with her at a Mexican restaraunt in Awatukee, AZ and became friends with her. I can tell you that he was an amazing, brillant, compassionate person with a soul so deep....and for there to be any comparison to what happened to him and what Ted Kennedy caused to happen is ludacris! What Pat did for his country, he did with his heart. What Mr. Kennedy did for his country, he did for his wallet. Huge difference!

Besides, even if Mr Kennedy has spent the remainder of his life after MJ as a public servant...so what? Is that really pay back for a LIFE?
Haven't you ever heard the old saying "One Oh S*t wipes out ten atta boys"? His "Oh !" wiped out like a million atta boys, imo.

What I said in my earlier post was not judgement, it was fact. Everything in a circle....what comes around, goes around....

Still as I said before, I wouldn't wish this on anyone and I feel sorry for his family and for him as well...but I think God just decided what his punishment should be, imo...and it isn't the demons he may have faced. Nope, this demon is a whole lot scarier.




NOTE: not at you Michelle! I'm just sayin'

This is an excellent post, ember. I don't wish cancer on anyone, and I don't even think the cancer is karma, who knows? We all die of something, we all make mistakes. I hope he can face his maker, as we will all will do. I am sorry for those who love him.

What sickens me is the incredible pattern of cowardice this man has shown. His lack of character and family exerting influence and bullying officials to give him a pass at every turn is what most of us who have followed this family for years object to! It wasn't JUST MaryJo although that is clearly the worst misdeed we know of. It is everything, taken together and evaluated. He has had at least 4 DUI's - he was caught b*!nking a waitress on the floor of a restaurant, accompanied by Sen. Christopher Dodd, I believe (I didn't check that, so am open to correction, just going from memory). His public drunkeness has been outrageously documented. Has he ever sought treatment or even admitted responsibility for his drunken actions? He and his brothers (and father) were notorious for treating women as playthings. My uncle lived just down the beach from Peter Lawford and I have heard many first hand stories about the Kennedy boys and their beach bunny guests. He had to cheat in college twice that we KNOW of. He takes public positions to help the little guy and raise taxes while his money is cozily tucked away in tax shelters and won't answer questions about it. Hypocritical! Pfft!

The character traits he has shown throughout his life aren't ones that would logically extend ONLY to his dealings with women. I cringe to think what else he has done, politically and otherwise, no matter how many people are singing his praises for public service now that he is ill (and before). None of it will ever change what to me, is obvious.

Eve

 

[ember]

Yeah, like my aunt suffers from MS (wheelchair bound, can hardly talk anymore, etc.) thought God was punishing her for being such a rebel and hellion growing up. God does not work that way.

IMO, it's not about "God", it's about what comes around goes around and I truly believe that some people create what will happen to them by the deeds they do.

On the other hand, I also know that sometimes bad things happen to good people, like your Aunt, Harley and my dad who died from cancer way too young. There is no explanation for that. It just happens and is extremely unfair.

But the bad ones get what's coimg to them, 3 fold. I truly believe that.

 

[lizzybeth]

What happened to Pat Tillman was a tragedy and a horrible accident compounded by the fact the military tried to cover it up. What is WASN'T was murder. I can't remember which poster referred to it as such but the meaning of murder is:


"the killing of another human being under conditions specifically covered in law. In the U.S., special statutory definitions include murder committed with malice aforethought, characterized by deliberation or premeditation"


Sen. Kennedy's car wreck was an accident. His decision not to help or even get help for Mary Jo was murder.

 

[lizzybeth]

This is an excellent post, ember. I don't wish cancer on anyone, and I don't even think the cancer is karma, who knows? We all die of something, we all make mistakes. I hope he can face his maker, as we will all will do. I am sorry for those who love him.

What sickens me is the incredible pattern of cowardice this man has shown. His lack of character and family exerting influence and bullying officials to give him a pass at every turn is what most of us who have followed this family for years object to! It wasn't JUST MaryJo although that is clearly the worst misdeed we know of. It is everything, taken together and evaluated. He has had at least 4 DUI's - he was caught b*!nking a waitress on the floor of a restaurant, accompanied by Sen. Christopher Dodd, I believe (I didn't check that, so am open to correction, just going from memory). His public drunkeness has been outrageously documented. Has he ever sought treatment or even admitted responsibility for his drunken actions? He and his brothers (and father) were notorious for treating women as playthings. My uncle lived just down the beach from Peter Lawford and I have heard many first hand stories about the Kennedy boys and their beach bunny guests. He had to cheat in college twice that we KNOW of. He takes public positions to help the little guy and raise taxes while his money is cozily tucked away in tax shelters and won't answer questions about it. Hypocritical! Pfft!

The character traits he has shown throughout his life aren't ones that would logically extend ONLY to his dealings with women. I cringe to think what else he has done, politically and otherwise, no matter how many people are singing his praises for public service now that he is ill (and before). None of it will ever change what to me, is obvious.

Eve

Eve, you said that very well and I agree with everything you said. I too feel bad for his family and I know that God doesn't punish people with cancer. If he did how do you explain a two year old with a brain tumor?

 

[eve]

Eve, you said that very well and I agree with everything you said. I too feel bad for his family and I know that God doesn't punish people with cancer. If he did how do you explain a two year old with a brain tumor?

I agree ember. I don't really think God works that way. Ted's "karma" is right here on the boards in our hearts, in our observations and evaluations of him. Not to say we are the "judges" - we are not. God is. But that doesn't mean we can't or won't comment on a public figure and how others have kowtowed to him and covered up for him at the expense of others and at the expense of a human life. He has done good - he has done bad. To me, the bad showed very flawed character on his part, and many of us know it. Him being sick doesn't mean I will change my opinion on the things he has done.

Eve

 

[southcitymom]

This has been an interesting read. I would never wish illness on anyone and am opposed to the dp so there's that.
But what has been interesting is it almost sounds as though some of you are pleading the case that murderers should be given an opportunity to redeem themselves by trying to do good works out in society rather than going to prison. Do some of you think that if a murderer has the *potential* to do well if not incarcerated that we should give them a pass and let them repent in their own way?
skeery.

I would absolutely love to see incarcerated people give back to society by doing good. I would love to see our prisons focus on such a thing which would benefit everyone, but I am not holding my breath.

As a person who believes that there is always justice whether we "see' it or not, it never crosses my mind that people "get away with things." That's not even possible. I do understand that people get frustrated when they think he should have served Planet Earth justice and didn't.

I am heartened that Ted Kennedy has done good and not just bad with his life. Most of us fit that description, I believe.

 

[southcitymom]

Thank you. In no way did I say she "deserved" anything; as some like to put words in my mouth.

To be honest, it's been a long time and I would have to look up the exact circumstances, but I was watching TV and I thought there were implications she and he were going to "shack up" that night.

She did make the decision to ride home in the middle of the night, ALONE, with a married man who probably had been drinking; maybe drinking heavily. No college kid who chooses to drive drunk with others in the car DESERVES to die either; but it happens all the time. You make terrible decisions when you drink

The horrible deception was the time he took to call for help after it all happened. To protect his career. Typical of a narcissist male politician.

I know you didn't. I always wondered if he blacked out that night. I also wonder what type of shock he was in following the accident.

Yes - politicians are self-serving amd he is no different.

What happened to Mary Jo was traumatic, to be sure. I routinely made terrible decisions when I was imapired and am grateful every day that none of them led to my death or the death of another.

Ted Kennedy is, IMHO, an addict. That does not excuse the pain he caused, but it's a fact that using addicts do stupid harmful things.

 

[JBean]

Scm I am at the hair salon and can barely read what I am posting on my phone but I think I got the gist of your post. But my eyes are awful.. What are your thoughts on tookie williams? who would decide who gets the chance to pay their debt to society on their own terms and not be incarcerated?

 

[LinasK]

Cancer in any form is not a punishment from God for something you did in your life. To say that Ted Kennedy is being punished for what he did to MaryJo by getting cancer is ridiculous. What pray tell did I do to deserve it!!!!

Well-said!!!:clap::clap::clap: Now is not the time or place to be bashing Ted Kennedy for Chappaquidick. He's had years to repent for it. Let's let the man- a great politician- live out the little remaining time he's got left with dignity. My prayers to the Kennedy family for yet another tragedy they must endure!

 

[Trino]

I also wonder what type of shock he was in following the accident.

I believe Kennedy was in "political shock," and I'm sure he was lawyered up the next morning.

The horrible thing about this accident was that Mary Jo was probably alive at least an hour after the accident. As I recall, Kennedy stated he dived and tried to rescue her. How hard he tried, as I recall, was debateable. How many people could actually go home and go to bed following an accident like this?

Again, if you haven't read the diver's account, please do so.
http://www.fatboy.cc/live_from_chappaquiddick.htm

 

[eve]

I know you didn't. I always wondered if he blacked out that night. I also wonder what type of shock he was in following the accident.

Yes - politicians are self-serving amd he is no different.

What happened to Mary Jo was traumatic, to be sure. I routinely made terrible decisions when I was imapired and am grateful every day that none of them led to my death or the death of another.

Ted Kennedy is, IMHO, an addict. That does not excuse the pain he caused, but it's a fact that using addicts do stupid harmful things.

Hi South:blowkiss:

I agree, he is an alcoholic. It runs in my family and I certainly know about blackouts and bad decisions. The difference between you and him is that you did something about it. That is part of making amends in itself. I have never heard that he has ever attempted to do so. He routinrey gets out of the consequences of that impaired behavior because of "who" he is and the people around him engineer his passes out of jail. That is wrong. That he has lived his life that way speaks to his character. I would never compare you to him and my sympathy runs to addicts of all kinds, believe me. But with his resources, there is no excuse for not cleaning up his act.

Great seeing your pic in "Who's who!"

xoxo
Eve

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I believe Kennedy was in "political shock," and I'm sure he was lawyered up the next morning.

He's lawyered up every morning. He's an attorney.

 

[Rino]

Well-said!!!:clap::clap::clap: Now is not the time or place to be bashing Ted Kennedy for Chappaquidick. He's had years to repent for it. Let's let the man- a great politician- live out the little remaining time he's got left with dignity. My prayers to the Kennedy family for yet another tragedy they must endure!

Repent is about your relationship with the lord, he needed to repent for his relationship with Mary anyway.

Being punished by society for the crimes he commited never happend.

 

[LadyLuck]

Cancer in any form is not a punishment from God for something you did in your life. To say that Ted Kennedy is being punished for what he did to MaryJo by getting cancer is ridiculous. What pray tell did I do to deserve it!!!!

I agree with you. My grandmother, grandfather and father all had cancer. God does not punish us for our wrong doing. He will judge me and Senator Kennedy when we die.

 

[LinasK]

Repent is about your relationship with the lord, he needed to repent for his relationship with Mary anyway.

Being punished by society for the crimes he commited never happend.

The man is dying. This happened about 40 years ago, people need to let it go...

 

[southcitymom]

Scm I am at the hair salon and can barely read what I am posting on my phone but I think I got the gist of your post. But my eyes are awful.. What are your thoughts on tookie williams? who would decide who gets the chance to pay their debt to society on their own terms and not be incarcerated?

I think we might might have different views of prison, Bean. I don't perceive prison as paying off a debt to society. I understand and agree that we need to imprison people to keep the greater of society safe from those who would harm us, but prison doesn't pay off anything, imho.

I mean really - if you rape and murder a child and then spend the rest of your life in jail or get excuted, is that justice? Hardly, IMHO. We're not really set up to administer justice here - though I know we try and I believe we have to.

I'm not saying to do away with prison sentences and let folks "pay their debt to society" on their own. I'm saying that prison should give these opportunities to the people they contain - give them a chance to have a worthwhile life and do some good things. I do not believe in throwing folks away no matter what type of crime they have committed. We can still keep society safe from dangerous people and give those people opportunities to do good works.

I need to go research Tookie Williams - I don't know the name.

 

[southcitymom]

I believe Kennedy was in "political shock," and I'm sure he was lawyered up the next morning.

The horrible thing about this accident was that Mary Jo was probably alive at least an hour after the accident. As I recall, Kennedy stated he dived and tried to rescue her. How hard he tried, as I recall, was debateable. How many people could actually go home and go to bed following an accident like this?

Again, if you haven't read the diver's account, please do so.
http://www.fatboy.cc/live_from_chappaquiddick.htm

I did listen to that when you posted it earlier, Trino, and it is very interesting. I surely agree that there was political manuevering at play with the incident.

 

[absinthe]

I think we might might have different views of prison, Bean. I don't perceive prison as paying off a debt to society. I understand and agree that we need to imprison people to keep the greater of society safe from those who would harm us, but prison doesn't pay off anything, imho.

I mean really - if you rape and murder a child and then spend the rest of your life in jail or get excuted, is that justice? Hardly, IMHO. We're not really set up to administer justice here - though I know we try and I believe we have to.

I'm not saying to do away with prison sentences and let folks "pay their debt to society" on their own. I'm saying that prison should give these opportunities to the people they contain - give them a chance to have a worthwhile life and do some good things. I do not believe in throwing folks away no matter what type of crime they have committed. We can still keep society safe from dangerous people and give those people opportunities to do good works.

I need to go research Tookie Williams - I don't know the name.

Co-founder of the Crips