The Possible Abuse of Caylee REVISIT

[Curious Me]

Here is a link to a PDF that has some good solid info about this condition...
http://neuro.surgery.duke.edu/wysiwyg/downloads/coronal_synostosis.pdf

Warning...some of the pics not for the faint of heart...

Magic-cat, thanks for the link.

I never knew anything about this subject! It's a big subject. I may need to go get a medical degree. I found a site, too, that discusses all kinds of Craniofacial abnormalities and shows pictures of the kids they help. Here's that site link:

http://www.worldcf.org/medical-info/craniofacial-resources/sagittal-synostosis/

I was looking for a photo that would most closely resemble that crooked smile pic of Caylee. The thing is I see one side of her face as bigger in some pics. How this all ties into proof of abuse is hard for me to see tho.'

 

[LambChop]

It may also have developed because of the lack of prenatal care. KC had none until late into her pregnancy. JMO

 

[Curious Me]

I can't tell for sure if that one side of Caylee's face was slightly bigger or rounder.
It could be my imagination, but I'd love to hear if anyone else notices it. It would be a stretch to assign it to abuse, I guess. It could, however, relate to the sagittal suture synostosis perhaps.

Photos #2, 7, 11, 14 Here's the link to the pictures I was looking at:
http://www.wesh.com/slideshow/news/16919052/detail.html

 

[magic-cat]

Magic-cat, thanks for the link.

I never knew anything about this subject! It's a big subject. I may need to go get a medical degree. I found a site, too, that discusses all kinds of Craniofacial abnormalities and shows pictures of the kids they help. Here's that site link:

http://www.worldcf.org/medical-info/craniofacial-resources/sagittal-synostosis/

I was looking for a photo that would most closely resemble that crooked smile pic of Caylee. The thing is I see one side of her face as bigger in some pics. How this all ties into proof of abuse is hard for me to see tho.'

Unsure if this could possibly be the case here, but I have a nephew who lives with my psychotic, sociopathic egg donor otherwise known as my mother, and she once gave him one of HER medications, supposedly by accident, rather than his own, which caused a temporary condition in the child called Bells Palsy. I have provided a link about this treatable and temporary condition. Could something like this have caused THAT to happen to Caylee? With Casey anything is possible I know...:banghead: Link: https://health.google.com/health/ref/Bell's+palsy

 

[Curious Me]

Unsure if this could possibly be the case here, but I have a nephew who lives with my psychotic, sociopathic egg donor otherwise known as my mother, and she once gave him one of HER medications, supposedly by accident, rather than his own, which caused a temporary condition in the child called Bells Palsy. I have provided a link about this treatable and temporary condition. Could something like this have caused THAT to happen to Caylee? With Casey anything is possible I know...:banghead: Link: https://health.google.com/health/ref/Bell's+palsy

Magic, you are magic with your good links. :bow:

You actually may have hit on what I'm seeing. The wrong drug caused a temp condition in your nephew afterall.

But I would think the tightening of the skull from the premature suturing might also cause the beginning of a Bells Palsy condition.

Article said:
"Bell's palsy is thought to be linked to swelling (inflammation) of the nerve in the area where it travels through the bones of the skull."

 

[seagull65]

I didn't look at the link because didn't want to see disturbing pictures, but always did wonder about the one picture of Caylee with the very sidebite smile (is this the one being discussed?). I hadn't seen it in any of her previous pictures and always wondered why she had that in that one picture, with a big side bite. Maybe little children's jaws are still loose enough they really can do this, and she was just playing around, I just haven't seen this myself before. She seemed fine, healthy, happy in the photo so I thought hopefully it wasn't from any injury or anything, and there's never been any suggestion of developmental or health problems in her history. But I've always wondered about this so it's interesting to see it discussed here.
(Speaking of facial assymetries, I always wondered too about the assymetry in TL's face, wondered if he had facial injuries at one time or who knows what, various other things that could affect the muscles of the face for example, I won't start listing things here. But anyone else notice notice/wonder about that? JMO)

 

[seagull65]

p.s. I didn't mean I haven't seen small kids do silly things with their mouths in pictures, I definitely have seen kids of that age clown around and do very silly unusual smiles in photos, my little boy used to do the weirdest faces at that age, but it was just that that sidebite looked like it would be hard to do, almost like her jaw was out of place, but she looked happy, so maybe she was just able to do that. I just hadn't seen it in previous pictures

 

[seagull65]

I guess if Casey was still taking pictures like that she hadn't noticed anything unusual about Caylee or her jaw, so maybe it's just a fluke in that photo?
I never thought of Bell's Palsy regarding Caylee's photo, that's a thought.

Well, whatever it was, Caylee didn't have it in the video from Father's Day.

That photo with the lopsided smile just always kind of stuck in my mind. (It's a very sweet photo.)
Then the tape found later on her jaw, holding up the lower jaw, etc, just coincidental about her jaw.

 

[seagull65]

What was that one text (gosh it's been a long time now) between Casey and Amy where I think Casey is talking about having taken Caylee and herself to their doctors because they've had a bad cold or flu or something, and then Casey mentions "she has a bruised rib", and Amy says "oh, the poor thing", or something along those lines. You all remember that one? What was she talking about there? Did Casey mean Caylee had a bruised rib or who? Was it supposedly from coughing or what? (Or do I have it completely backward and it was Amy talking about someone?)

 

[cloud9]

I am confused (no surprise there). LOL Anyway, my daughter was born with the *PRIMARY* Cranio defect. I've been trying to find more information, that is clear as to the *secondary* condition being caused from child neglect/abuse. When I try to read up on it, I just get confused.:waitasec:

Thanks!

 

[AZlawyer]

What was that one text (gosh it's been a long time now) between Casey and Amy where I think Casey is talking about having taken Caylee and herself to their doctors because they've had a bad cold or flu or something, and then Casey mentions "she has a bruised rib", and Amy says "oh, the poor thing", or something along those lines. You all remember that one? What was she talking about there? Did Casey mean Caylee had a bruised rib or who? Was it supposedly from coughing or what? (Or do I have it completely backward and it was Amy talking about someone?)

I think it was just Casey giving an excuse for not going with Amy to look at a new house. Here are some texts from Amy''s phone.

May 19:

Casey I’ll be in a place by then. You can stay with me. I’m looking at a place tomorrow with my mom that I might be signing on.

Amy When are you going? If it’s in the afternoon I could join and see the place too. Plus your mom could meet me and know her daughter and grandkid are going to live with a crazy person.

Casey Ha ha. She already knows that you’re crazy. I’m calling my mom when I get out. I’ll text you with the exact time. It’s off of Conway and Michigan.

Amy Sweet.

May 20:

Amy Do you have a time for today yet? I’m kinda excited.

Casey Not yet. Waiting for the homeowner to call me back. I'm excited too!

Amy I’m also trying to think of some of the bigger items I have in storage and what we can maybe use and what I’ll still have to store someplace. Coffee table, end taable, kitchen table and chairs, and an entertainment stand. I pretty much have whateve we need. . . So anything you want to save some money on and get later, I’ve more than likely got it.

Casey That’s awesome! I’m going to call the lady now.

Casey She said tomorrow will be better. What time do you work?

Amy Not 'til 6pm.

Casey Awesome. I’ll be out around noon. She said anytime between noon and 5 is good.

Amy Awesome. Way excited!

Casey Me too!!

Amy If this place works out do you know about when we’d be in? I'm trying to figure out a timeline for life.

Casey The house is already pretty much empty. She said we can move in the same day. It’s up to us.

Amy Wow. I might not have to pay June storage!

Casey That would help I'm sure! There’s an in-ground pool with a fenced-in porch and back yard. It’s a great starting house.

Amy Awesome! Pools are always fun. I was sad at first about moving, but I think this will be so much better!

Casey You will be so much closer to everything and everyone. Is Troy going to stay at Cara’s?

May 21:

Casey I'm definitely sick.

Amy Oh, no! Stop that! Are we still going to look at that place?

Casey I'm going to call the lady in a few minutes. I'm headed to the doctor’s now. I hate this!

Amy You haven’t even been going out either.

Casey Nope. Twice since I was sick last month. But I have been working a lot. I put in almost 60 hours last week. I think it’s the flu. I’ll know soon.

***

Casey Can I raincheck seeing the house? I just got back from the drs and don’t feel too hot at all. Stupid flu.

Amy Totally. Get better. Do it when you can if I can go awesome. If not it’s all good.

Casey Well I would love for you to be there. We will figure it out. I'm taking the day to rest as much as possible.

Amy Good. Tom I’m out bc of the interview but Friday is good. Get better.

Casey Thanks love! Can’t wait to hear about the interview.

Amy So I’m done at the rep at 1230 on Friday if that works for you guys to go after that. Feeling any better?

Casey Works for me! I'm not feeling worse. Found out I have a bruised rib. At least I have nice pills for my flu and I’ll be popping anti-inflammatories like there’s no tomorrow.

May 23:

Amy Do we have a time to go look at the place today?

Casey I’ll have to let you know when I get done at the drs. I gave Caylee my cold.

Amy And your bruised rib? I didn’t think those were contagious! Poor baby. Give her a hug for me.

Casey At least her ribs are good. Ha ha. I know .. I feel terrible. I gave her some Amy love.

***

Amy Just up from nap. What happened? And what’s with going to look at that place?

Casey I'm honestly not feeling up to doing anything now. I don’t want to keep putting it off but its going to have to be later this weekend.

Amy I can’t now anyway. Got to shower and go back to work. I just need to know you are serious about it. I have a date looming where I won’t have a home and I need to know where I'm going soon. It’s scary.

Casey Trust me. I'm serious. I've been to this house 4 times already. I'm pretty set. I asked the homeowner to wait 'til the end of the month so I can get everything settled.

Amy OK. I totally trust you, just wanted to make sure. I’ve never been in this position before. I don’t like it.

Casey I know hun! I'm going to get it done and done right.

 

[cloud]

She was the mother - just how were they suppose to stop her? I don't for a minute think CA ALLOWED KC to drag Caylee around town --- I just don't think there was much she could do about it!!!

Beg to disagree, poco...

If anyone knew what was going on in that household, it would have been CA, and she would have asserted her control, not just her opinions. We've seen and heard and read (literally) enough to know she demanded and expected to be in control.

I believe that's what the argument was about on the night before Caylee "disappeared".

Sorry... I digressed from the subject. I don't see any disability in Caylee that would suggest physical abuse. Emotional, is another story. It sometimes manifests in physical conditions that are (usually) hard to detect until later in life.

JMHO

 

[LambChop]

Beg to disagree, poco...

If anyone knew what was going on in that household, it would have been CA, and she would have asserted her control, not just her opinions. We've seen and heard and read (literally) enough to know she demanded and expected to be in control.

I believe that's what the argument was about on the night before Caylee "disappeared".

Sorry... I digressed from the subject. I don't see any disability in Caylee that would suggest physical abuse. Emotional, is another story. It sometimes manifests in physical conditions that are (usually) hard to detect until later in life.

JMHO

Absolutely. And what would have kept CA from DEMANDING KC bring Caylee home. Something that happened where CA felt she was wrong, something happened that would have upset KC. This was not a normal day, week, month for them. CA has the answers. She knows why and probably how KC killed her daughter.

 

[cloud]

Absolutely. And what would have kept CA from DEMANDING KC bring Caylee home. Something that happened where CA felt she was wrong, something happened that would have upset KC. This was not a normal day, week, month for them. CA has the answers. She knows why and probably how KC killed her daughter.

Oh, I would bet she khows why... but I'm not sure about "how". Just going on her reaction when she found out. Though... thinking about it... she did make some sort of a ridiculous excuse about KC borrowing a shovel from the neighbour to ummm... keep the bamboo shoots in check, because they can be really nasty and grow on you before you even know it (my words).

So I have to agree with you - IMO, she certainly knows who, why and most probably how. The only thing that bothers me is that she (CA) seemed to be truly distressed, as in worried, for at least 4 weeks... and then it all blew up. Why did she wait for all that time, if she knew something was very wrong?

I suppose she may have been hoping she was wrong.

And what about GA? Was he really at home at the time when KC carrying Caylee left? Did he see them? How did he see them? Was Caylee slumped over her mother's shoulder, as if in sleep (which would be natural) and dismissed it as that? What if Caylee wasn't asleep? Did he know? Did he suspect? I somehow think he either knew, or suspected, at least... but that's just my opinion.

JMHO

 

[LambChop]

Oh, I would bet she khows why... but I'm not sure about "how". Just going on her reaction when she found out. Though... thinking about it... she did make some sort of a ridiculous excuse about KC borrowing a shovel from the neighbour to ummm... keep the bamboo shoots in check, because they can be really nasty and grow on you before you even know it (my words).

So I have to agree with you - IMO, she certainly knows who, why and most probably how. The only thing that bothers me is that she (CA) seemed to be truly distressed, as in worried, for at least 4 weeks... and then it all blew up. Why did she wait for all that time, if she knew something was very wrong?

I suppose she may have been hoping she was wrong.

And what about GA? Was he really at home at the time when KC carrying Caylee left? Did he see them? How did he see them? Was Caylee slumped over her mother's shoulder, as if in sleep (which would be natural) and dismissed it as that? What if Caylee wasn't asleep? Did he know? Did he suspect? I somehow think he either knew, or suspected, at least... but that's just my opinion.

JMHO

If the reports from Lee and the neighbor are correct that KC and CA did actually have a fight and CA choked KC (from Lee) it is very possible CA knows how Caylee died. In the birthday video when CA rubs icing on KC, KC then takes Caylees hand full of frosting and puts it in Caylee's face. KC doing to Caylee what her mother did to her. Seems like a pattern.

CA demanded KC come home because the car smelled like a "dead body was in the damn car", and CA knew KC was still alive.

As far as GA. He gets his dates mixed up to this day so I do not think he really remembers whether or not he saw them that day. It may comfort him to think he did. JMO

 

[cloud9]

I think it was just Casey giving an excuse for not going with Amy to look at a new house. Here are some texts from Amy''s phone.
May 20:

Casey You will be so much closer to everything and everyone. Is Troy going to stay at Cara’s?

(snipped)

I've never heard of a Cara. Who is she?

Thanks!

 

[Curious Me]

If the reports from Lee and the neighbor are correct that KC and CA did actually have a fight and CA choked KC (from Lee) it is very possible CA knows how Caylee died. In the birthday video when CA rubs icing on KC, KC then takes Caylees hand full of frosting and puts it in Caylee's face. KC doing to Caylee what her mother did to her. Seems like a pattern.
CA demanded KC come home because the car smelled like a "dead body was in the damn car", and CA knew KC was still alive.

As far as GA. He gets his dates mixed up to this day so I do not think he really remembers whether or not he saw them that day. It may comfort him to think he did. JMO

Great observation on the dynamics. The fight and CA trying to choke Casey, if true, would prove CA also could've been abusive. But not to Caylee?

 

[teddiebear1955]

Casey taped Caylee's mouth shut, and for 31 days had peace and quiet. Casey could go and do whatever she wanted to do ..shoppin, cookin for Tony, sleepin, partyin etc.

Casey did to Caylee exactly what Casey had wanted to do to her mother....and oh could we even guess how many times she had wanted to shut her mother up?

Casey had no clue what happens when a person dies ...my goodness Caylee was beginnin to smell bad...what to do what to do ...oh wait when my hamster died i just wrapped it up and put it in the special place ...hmmm sounds good WOW it worked but i cant get the car to not smell ..i'll just park it and walk away. jmo

 

[LambChop]

Great observation on the dynamics. The fight and CA trying to choke Casey, if true, would prove CA also could've been abusive. But not to Caylee?

Another thing I noticed is that when KC was filming she does not talk. In the KC/Caylee playing on the floor video you can hear CA saying, "I'm filming, I'm filming" to GA, in other words, shut up GA, I'm filming. Then there is Lee's statement in his depo where he states that he did not pursue KC being pregnant because of the reaction he got from his mother. It appears CA's control issues may have been stronger and worse than what we see now. Hard to be the perfect child. Unfortunately children don't come with a manual. JMO

 

[Curious Me]

First, I raised two rowdy boys that had their share of accidents and bruises. It's normal to an extent. I have tons of their childhood photos, and probably none showing bruises on their faces on a steady basis.

I'm sure you all have seen it too...a parent that handles their child's body roughly. I've seen several examples of Casey being playful in a rough way. How much did she honor her daughter's small body as in taking care of the little angel?

It's an odd coincidence that there are photos of Caylee with different bruises near her eyes from different mishaps. Bruises in the same general area make me suspicious.

P.S. Wondering if bruises on the forehead are more common in children. Or is it common for children to get bruises under and so close to the eye on more than one occassion?