The Rumor Mill -- unsubstantiated, yet possible relevant information

[PennyPie7]

its been 5 years with no facts..time to figure them out ourselves. Why would an old (burner?) phone that hadn't been turned on since 2008 be dumped with a UID male just 5 miles form a gilgo resident's FL home sometime after 2012?

This isn't figuring out facts yourself. This is making them all up.

 

[LindsayLohan6]

This isn't figuring out facts yourself. This is making them all up.

No 'm using logic. No one carries a phone on them they don't use for over 4 years. The phone was clearly placed by the killer. Am I making up that both of this poi's home's have UID murder victims within 5 miles. What exactly am I making up ??

 

[PennyPie7]

No 'm using logic. No one carries a phone on them they don't use for over 4 years. The phone was clearly placed by the killer. Am I making up that both of this poi's home's have UID murder victims within 5 miles. What exactly am I making up ??

No one knows who's phone it was. Once we know who the killer of this person is and the phone is traced to them, sure -go ahead and tell me you told me so. Until then, it is purely rumor and theories.

 

[LindsayLohan6]

Thread: The Rumor Mill -- unsubstantiated, yet possible relevant information

Can you offer a logical scenario for why a phone turned off since 2008 is found with a post 2012 murder victim? Was this a make believe play phone that cattleman rd john doe carried in his pocket for years to speak to imaginary aliens on?

 

[marble]

Thread: The Rumor Mill -- unsubstantiated, yet possible relevant information

Can you offer a logical scenario for why a phone turned off since 2008 is found with a post 2012 murder victim? Was this a make believe play phone that cattleman rd john doe carried in his pocket for years to speak to imaginary aliens on?

In terms of possible scenarios of why/how the phone may belong to the homeless victim- your jokey reason is within the realm of possibilities.
If anyone has spent time interacting with homeless populations they'll find a number of that population suffers from mental illnesses. What's rational to us isn't always rational to someone in a dire or desperate life situation, whether or not that situation is compounded by substance abuse and/or psychological issues.

Some possibilities (since you asked):

The homeless person held onto the phone because it had sentimental value to them and reminded them of a time when they could afford a phone and use it make phone calls to people they felt connected to

The victim held onto the phone because it gave them some sense of hope- that one day they'd get it together/have $ and stability and be able to use that phone again

The victim held onto the phone because it was the most expensive item they still owned

They used the phone to make calls to the aliens/voices in their head/dead loved ones

etc. etc. and so on. I'm not saying it's more likely that the phone belonged to the victim than whoever killed him, but having worked with similar populations previously I'm 50/50 on where it originated from. It'd be great if the phone's origin, call log, and assigned number could be determined.

 

[LindsayLohan6]

Have a look at this guys clothes in the article, doesn't look homeless to me and the PI suggests he's a biker since he was dumped behind a harley dealer

 

[deedee21]

Lindsay, How can I see the picture of the guy you are talking about?

 

[LindsayLohan6]

The links on page 60 and 61...

 

[marble]

The links on page 60 and 61...

I couldn't find his reconstruction (did see the jacket photos though, thanks!) I may have missed this link in this thread previously but it does show photos of his belt, belt buckle, and phone as well:

http://www.bradenton.com/news/local/news-columns-blogs/breaking-news-blog/article37057959.html

The jacket isn't a true biker's jacket, it's sort of a lower end clothing item from the 90s even though it's made in Italy (the brand was marketed and sold here in the U.S. in department stores) so although he may have been a biker, he wasn't wearing riding clothes specifically. This passage leads me to believe he was homeless though, because these are the kinds of items someone with no fixed address would be likely to carry: (except for the phone which we've been debating)

"The sheriff's office said the deceased man was wearing Wrangler jeans 29x30, an alligator skin belt with a distinctive belt buckle, a medium Gianni Velente leather jacket and Timberland boots. He also was carrying a Motorola flip phone, lighters, Mennen Speed Stick deodorant, nail clippers and two small black combs."

http://www.bradenton.com/news/local/news-columns-blogs/breaking-news-blog/article37057959.html

 

[LindsayLohan6]

I couldn't find his reconstruction (did see the jacket photos though, thanks!) I may have missed this link in this thread previously but it does show photos of his belt, belt buckle, and phone as well:

http://www.bradenton.com/news/local/news-columns-blogs/breaking-news-blog/article37057959.html

The jacket isn't a true biker's jacket, it's sort of a lower end clothing item from the 90s even though it's made in Italy (the brand was marketed and sold here in the U.S. in department stores) so although he may have been a biker, he wasn't wearing riding clothes specifically. This passage leads me to believe he was homeless though, because these are the kinds of items someone with no fixed address would be likely to carry: (except for the phone which we've been debating)

"The sheriff's office said the deceased man was wearing Wrangler jeans 29x30, an alligator skin belt with a distinctive belt buckle, a medium Gianni Velente leather jacket and Timberland boots. He also was carrying a Motorola flip phone, lighters, Mennen Speed Stick deodorant, nail clippers and two small black combs."

http://www.bradenton.com/news/local/news-columns-blogs/breaking-news-blog/article37057959.html

Hey marble, the nail clippers and speed stick is an interesting point. his clothes are in good condition for a homeless person but it's a possibility. If he wasn't homeless he may have been a "drifter". Could the man have been dead since 2008 but the penny placed in his pocket by the killer if the body was kept for years? seems unlikely scenario. He's described as a drinker with gout..I wonder if we can find a missing person reported to have gout? The drinker label is interesting considering the poi's description as a sponsor in his obit, and the proximity to his fl house. wonder if these clothes were shown at local AA meetings?

 

[marble]

All good lines of inquiry ! Especially the AA meetings.

edited to add: and "drifter", a word that's come up elsewhere, right?

 

[mysteryattic]

Of the GB four, only Amber suffered with addiction. Correct? I don't remember the others have addiction issues.

 

[dc20015]

IIRC from Lost Girls, some of them were recreational users, but she was the only one with a serious problem.

Also, to belatedly echo what was said about the homeless, I work in an area where a lot of homeless people hang out because it is near a Metro station and a 24 hour CVS. I know a homeless woman who has carried around the same broken umbrella for 10 years because she thinks it protects her. Also, this is a population that will wheel around the same newspapers for years in grocery carts. Nothing is out of the question because you are dealing with people who are largely dual-diagnosis mentally ill and addicted to substances.

 

[LindsayLohan6]

Of the GB four, only Amber suffered with addiction. Correct? I don't remember the others have addiction issues.

As for the AA angle, we already have an idea how the killer met the g4, but for the unidentified victims, especially the males like wolf hill road man, the scoliosis man, manorville males, UID females, AA is a possibility for sure

 

[marble]

yep, and AA angle is def something to look at. Unrelated (well, in all probability) I was around the RI/NB area when the New Bedford Highway killer was operating and at the time (and still) I believe there was a strong possibility that those murders could have been the work of a local AA/NA sponsor rather than a trucker. Gut feeling, knowing the area, some people who travelled in those circles, etc. As for the UI victims in this case, who would know better the back story each victim had and the likelihood that someone would not report them missing than someone they'd confided in and trusted?
Just throwing that idea out there with the other theories to see what sticks, again I have no particular POI in mind or anything to back this up.

 

[mysteryattic]

Has anyone found or heard any good updates on the Niagara Falls murders or Neale Falls? The Neal Falls case is interesting since it appeared he traveled great distances to commit his crimes, kind of like Israeli Keyes. You have admit that is a good tactic for an SK. I still think the Lisk is someone with local ties. No more on 57?

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Has anyone found or heard any good updates on the Niagara Falls murders or Neale Falls? The Neal Falls case is interesting since it appeared he traveled great distances to commit his crimes, kind of like Israeli Keyes. You have admit that is a good tactic for an SK. I still think the Lisk is someone with local ties. No more on 57?

Hi mysteryattic, I haven't heard any updates on the Niagra Falls murders. Last I heard, LE in TX requested information on Neal Falls. I imagine it may be awhile before we hear anything definate on NF. It takes alot of time for detectives to dig up myriad info on a potential suspect. The thing that is weird to me is that we at WS usually have victims of a SK to sleuth for connections. But in the NF case, we have a suspected serial killer with no known victims other than Heather.
.
I'd like to know more about 57. I really feel out of the loop. i took a step back in the case in 2012 because my phone was spoofed after we had been discussing the subject on WS. Then, I've also been away in another state since 2013 caring for ill family members until recently. If someone could bring me up to date on this 57, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks.

 

[LINative13]

You are not allowed to investigate any anonymous 12 step group meetings.

 

[LindsayLohan6]

What was that, native? You mean the police can't ask questions or show a photo at an AA meeting?

 

[To Kill a Mockingbird]

What was that, native? You mean the police can't ask questions or show a photo at an AA meeting?

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20103426,00.html

Paul Cox told people at a AA meeting that he kept having a recurring dream about killing his parents. It turns out that Mr. Cox went to his childhood home and stabbed
Dr. Chavu and Dr. Chavu to death, thinking he was killing his parents.


police arrested Paul Cox, a carpenter and recovering alcoholic, on a lip from Cox's roommate. Cox, then 25 and a member of Alcoholics Anonymous for 2 ½ years, had been confiding to her and other AA friends that he had been having persistent nightmares in which he murdered his parents. The dreams, he said, prodded dim memories, and he feared that during an alcoholic blackout he had returned to his childhood home and killed the Chervus. Later, Cox said he had thought the couple—who had bought the house from his family in 1974, when he was 6—were his own parents.

From the start, the prosecution of Paul Cox raised unsettling questions about privileged information. When seven AA members were subpoenaed to testify against him, they balked, claiming that, like clergy, attorneys and psychiatrists, they were bound by AA principles to protect Cox's confidences. But Judge Cowhey ruled that state law does not extend privilege to self-help groups. All seven AA members were ordered to testify, though they were not required to disclose their full names in open court, and photos of them were forbidden.