The Smiths

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yosande said:
I'm saying that yes, her bail is too high. She has not been charged with murder, that I know of.

In fact, the only thing she is obviously guilty of is custodial interference, everything else is speculation at this point. Because they don't know where the baby is, and mom isn't talking, they are attempting to keep her in jail with a high bail for not cooperating with them, imoo.

ETA;
My anger, and concern is that judges are doing this more and more. The common man cannot possibly attain that amount. The purpose of the high bail is to keep her in jail as if he judged her with no bail. So then why didn't he? Because by law her couldn't with the charges and evidence against her.

It's an abuse of power, and The Constitution set safeguards in place to protect the common man from such abuses. More and more judges are not respecting The Constitution, therefore, we should all be concerned.

Here's some history as to why our Constitution set these safeguards in place. :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excessive_bail

I'm sorry for this being o/t. I'll not bring it up again in this thread. :)
Click to expand...

IMO, reguardless of what her charges are, she is a flight risk. Doesn't that typically constitute high bail?
 
Kamille said:
I'm still confused about that whole myspace conversation that TPS had on NG too BeanE. The Smiths seemed to indicate that the first contact they had with EJ after she left AZ was on myspace but the only proof they appeared to give NG was the conversations that started on Dec 29th.

Interesting to note that EJ was signing in and/or updating her mypace status during her time in SA. A couple of screen caps from the following news video...

http://www.foxsanantonio.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/vid_1117.shtml

2h4cq36.jpg


2my59fq.jpg



These show that she was updating or signing in to pick up messages on Dec 23rd at 1:37pm, Dec 24th at 1:00am and Dec 24th at 10:13am.

And those were just the ones I could capture. Obviously LE knows all of the dates and times when she was signing in and I'm sure has all of the private messages that were sent.

So this seems to be some random internet usage. Did she use the hotel lobby computer every time or did she have access in her room? There is free wifi at the hotel. I believe there is an app for myspace on the IPOD touch if she had one of those with her or is it possible that she had her own laptop with her?

Dec 23rd at 1:37pm is odd. Wasn't that the time she was supposed to be just arriving back at the hotel after her appointment, and around the time she was supposed to be talking to someone on the phone?
Click to expand...

I posted this in another thread, but I just don't know where it goes. Since this conversation is here, I will post it here. You can see from whoever this "friend"'s view is, that EJ posted some of these status updates from a cell phone. See the icon for a phone?

EJathotel.jpg


http://www.foxsanantonio.com/newsro...tml?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
 
I still believe that not just the baby but also even the cellphone could change hands (and coincidentally I think it could be that each travels in different directions) to throw everyone off track. The anonymity required to pull off an illegal/unregistered placement might require cellphone going to Victoria, EJ changing back and forth to hotels, baby going a completely different direction. If EJ were kept a little out of the loop so che can't talk because she doesn't know, their plan is close to working. Tammi is impossible not to suspect. I even think her shady cousin, CC, has a role that's probably larger than having his name on paternity papers as a possible dad to Gabriel. He has faced charges for assuming the identity of others before and also has altered auto plates... If you were hiding something, you could easily be involved in both activities. Or maybe he is just in it for the business but I think he he could have ferried cell phones, EJ, TS, GPSs and even Gabriel to one of the hand-offs. I hope they are talking to him.

Is Nancy Grace the only person on the planet who doesn't see how suspicious the Smiths are? Even alot of her guests won't say what seems to be the elephant in the room? When she stopped TS from saying too much, I thought she might be trying to protect her but is it possible that she was thinking that if she said it on national television, it would compromise some approach in court? Surely NG can't still be thinking that they are uninvolved. EJ could have been accusatory for manipulative reasons or.... and it's a big OR... she could have been accusing the sneakiest person in the whole operation!
 
kissdegirl said:
I posted this in another thread, but I just don't know where it goes. Since this conversation is here, I will post it here. You can see from whoever this "friend"'s view is, that EJ posted some of these status updates from a cell phone. See the icon for a phone?

EJathotel.jpg


http://www.foxsanantonio.com/newsro...tml?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
Click to expand...

Thanks ... and also to Kamille for the screenshots.

I had some big long post about this whole time period between Dec 22nd - 26th/27th, but just got frustrated with it and trying to figure out what the Smith's were doing. I just can't believe that as late as the 22nd such a divisive message is sent to Logan from Tammi and Jack is presenting all this on FB as a 'hiccup'!!! And, if I put that with Tammi saying (~ Jan 4th or later?) that Elizabeth still wants to help then adopt Gabriel ..... ack! Even if nothing else, why hasn't Tammi come forward and said they continued doing this stuff because Elizabeth knows where Gabriel is.
 
TS is, according to her, always trying to ask LE the next big question. I had not heard that the person who saw EJ with the couple and the third man was a friend of TS's but I saw that in a recent post. Has it been confirmed? Does anyone know if this information just surfaced or if LE just released it? And has anyone heard if there was ever any videa of EJ and anybody coming or going from the hotels? Any visitors? Phone calls from her room? Or if there's any hotel security footage with persons that might be TS, JS or CC coming or going from one or both hotels. I'm still wondering if a computer forensics person has turned anything up on library, or hotel computers. Anyone know?

There's alot of moving parts to this puzzle and, in my opinion, TS is handling it like an unruffleable pro. She either has no conscience or she's thought of everything. Probably both. If I find out I'm wrong, I'll apologize but I just know she is the mastermind!!!
 
chell said:
I still believe that not just the baby but also even the cellphone could change hands (and coincidentally I think it could be that each travels in different directions) to throw everyone off track. The anonymity required to pull off an illegal/unregistered placement might require cellphone going to Victoria, EJ changing back and forth to hotels, baby going a completely different direction. If EJ were kept a little out of the loop so che can't talk because she doesn't know, their plan is close to working. Tammi is impossible not to suspect. I even think her shady cousin, Craig Cherry, has a role that's probably larger than having his name on paternity papers as a possible dad to Gabriel. He has faced charges for assuming the identity of others before and also has altered auto plates... If you were hiding something, you could easily be involved in both activities. Or maybe he is just in it for the business but I think he he could have ferried cell phones, EJ, TS, GPSs and even Gabriel to one of the hand-offs. I hope they are talking to him.

Is Nancy Grace the only person on the planet who doesn't see how suspicious the Smiths are? Even alot of her guests won't say what seems to be the elephant in the room? When she stopped TS from saying too much, I thought she might be trying to protect her but is it possible that she was thinking that if she said it on national television, it would compromise some approach in court? Surely NG can't still be thinking that they are uninvolved. EJ could have been accusatory for manipulative reasons or.... and it's a big OR... she could have been accusing the sneakiest person in the whole operation!
Click to expand...


Excellent post, and you made me think. The Smith's and their connections, be it CC or Janet Morris or those we don't know about all have knowledge on how to pull this off and have shown in the past they will commit crimes or breeches of ethics to do what they want to do. I think the hotel moving and such was done to hide and probably to do some or more of the other things you mention to confuse any investigation - certain things seem purposefully done to keep hidden from Logan until the deed was done, to confuse a later search for Gabriel (like now!), and to possibly cover tracks on who was involved and who could be convicted/connected. Looking at those dates between the 18th - 27th, makes me strongly suspect the Smith's were actively involved in the first goal - to keep Logan from finding Elizabeth or Gabriel in San Antonio. I'm sure their FB posts were put there on purpose, not a mistake ... I'm still trying to figure out if the purpose was to cover their butts, send out information to someone, or just confuse things (or all three).
 
Bombshell....now maybe NG can get a jailhouse interview!
 
I'm still wondering why the Smith's were thinking they were going to adopt Gabriel AFTER Elizabeth was arrested. This does not make sense if they are claiming they believe Elizabeth went off on her own, found the underground or whatever, and gave Gabriel to some couple in SA. It doesn't even make sense if they thought Elizabeth could identify that couple.
 
She has lied to LE before why would this be any different.....Speak TS and JS!!
 
TS may not know where Gabriel is, at this moment, but she may very well know that he is alive--or was alive when EJ handed him off. Marc Klaas called this what it is last night: human trafficking.
 
Updating my previous post: Trying to put these few days together and this seems to be what we have so far, feel free to add


Dec 21

Logan had an emergency custody hearing on December 21, and was granted full custody of Gabe (per missinggabe)

(?) Logan tells Tammy about Elizabeth's myspace, Tammi leaves a message on there and Elizabeth texts and calls Tammi​

Dec 22

Smith's sent Logan this text message:​

Can we get together tomorrow morning to talk with you and your dad? I'm afraid she'll be gone forever, cause she doesn't want to go to jail for kidnapping. She doesn't trust u or ur dad. The only way she'll come back is if my attorney faxes the signed papers to her so she won't get in trouble, and Gabriel b w/us.

12:31pm: Jack posts on FB that they are experiencing a 'hiccup' with 'the new baby' Gabriel. Jack writes that Elizabeth picked up Gabriel the evening of December 18 for a visit with Logan, and hasn't been seen or heard from since.([ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94742"]ref[/ame])​


Dec 23

(?) Elizabeth is probably speaking to Tammi at ~ 1:30 pm on the phone (not Grandma).

Tammi claims this is the last time she talked to Logan

Tammi (on FB?) posts about Elizabeth traveling, the underground, message says "Pray for Gabriel" indicating they are in Texas​
 
pittsburghgirl said:
TS may not know where Gabriel is, at this moment, but she may very well know that he is alive--or was alive when EJ handed him off. Marc Klaas called this what it is last night: human trafficking.
Click to expand...

Well.. I am wondering about what was said in the presser today, worded very carefully I'll add. Maybe LE was sending a message that they are not looking for info from Tammi to make a deal, e.g., ok, we believe you do not have direct info to find Gabriel. I think it was clear that Tammi's involvement extended beyond the 18th when they said she arranged stuff for Elizabeth after she left. I think there will be more charges, but they have enough for now. I hope she can't bail out.
 
DairyGirl said:
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/arrest-missing-baby-gabriel-case-sign-child/story?id=9728581

This is what I was afraid of. To me, this means that TPS's involvement ended when EJ went to San Antonio and she probably didn't arrange for any meeting in TX.
Click to expand...

But, DG, they went on to say Tammi helped her with arrangementx for places to stay and such after she left (something like that).

I am wondering if charges against Tammi stem from Elizabeth's time in SA could still be brought in Texas. And, as I wrote elsewhere, I'm wondering if Federal charges/crimes apply. I think for some reason, they wanted to arrest her now, refocus their energies on prosecuting her after handing over the case to SA - that seems really wise to me given limited resources and that it makes sense to center in Texas instead of Arizona right now for finding Gabriel. I'm happier than a lark that Tempe/Arizona will now spend their energies getting her convicted.

A lot more resources have been added to searching for Gabriel recently also (SA investigators, Heidi project, I had heard equisearch, JJ Armes and his team, and Logan and his family). I believe they are very well coordinated and determined. I don't think Tammi is going to get out of this lightly - people like her need to be prosecuted and maybe this will send a message to others who are trying to get children by illegal or underhanded means.
 
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