The Springfield Three--missing since June 1992 - #6

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
So it seems to me that a minimum of one person either trusted by one or more of the women or a ruse was used. I think that is undisputed.

I am having some difficulty with the view that Garrison is connected to this crime. Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't he sprung from jail by one of the detectives for an absurdly low bail amount $500 (and he was only on the hook for 10% or $50.00)? If he was actually considered a top suspect why would anyone conceive of such an idea to allow him out of jail?

Hypothetically, suppose he had nothing to do with this crime. If he had nothing to do with this crime it might have been one of the other two GJ3. We know that one is in the slammer (or was), and one is (believed) to be on the street. We also know they were tight having spent time in Kansas before they were released some three weeks prior to the women going missing. My recollection is that all of them had a rap sheet as long as my leg.

Further extending this out, suppose NONE of these guys were involved? Can that possibility be ruled out? I don't think so; especially if one is inclined to believe that the perpetrator was "trusted" by one or more of the women.

If the GJ3 had nothing to do with this crime. Who are we left with? Are we absolutely 1,000% certain that the SPD is squeaky clean? There are so many things about this case that do not pass the smell test. Why not consider the possibility there was police involvement. If that is plausible, isn't it also plausible that the women would have trusted a uniformed officer or a plain clothed detective? Just saying.....

I would dispute that a trusted person had to be used or that a ruse was used in order to gain entry. In fact that is what this discussion concerning the various profiles by LE is all about. It is not necessary for this to have happened; there is no physical evidence of such and either scenario only came to the forefront because of these profiles.

Garrison was not in GCJ on the FIP charge when the women were abducted. He had only been out of prison for 21 days but the other two had been out on parole much longer; one of them had been out on parole almost a yr. Garrison had served his full sentence, therefore he was not on parole. So all 3 were together & on the street. When he was arrested for FIP and placed in GCJ it was after the abduction. He knew he was facing his 3rd strike felony conviction with the FIP and would be going back to prison for a long stretch on a 3rd strike so he wanted to give LE something that could possibly ease his predicament and coincidentally LE wanted to talk to him about what he knew of the abduction. If he was involved in the abduction then he knew things could really get worse for him.

Whether he was involved or just knew what happened as he claimed, the fact remains that he gave LE information that resulted in the successful execution of 3 search warrants and the evidence recovered on those warrants remains sealed to this very day. That is something in the way of information that no other suspect has provided: not Cox, not any of the 3GR's, not the Thespian, the kids (rich or poor) or anyone else. But he did not give up everything he knows including the names of those who were involved. And LE didn't believe for one minute that he wasn't involved. He knows too many of the details not to have been involved. No PA makes a deal with a convicted rapist serving 40 consecutive yrs. It has been a waiting game ever since.
 
What is it with you Monkeymannn, because it's not about researching and solving this case? It's about attacking certain individuals. TexasT & fullmoon both made the point first that FBI profiles of UNSUBS are not always accurate, yet you attack me for agreeing with them. I previously proposed the perfect opportunity for us to clear all of this up but we both know you couldn't do it because you would have then been known as a liar for all time.


And who are you to know anything about respect when you made your personal attack on Incredible when she simply made a request on Topix that a derogatory name that was offensive to her personally, not be used and you didn't even have the balls to use your screen name (or any of the other 20+ other screen names you have used before) to do it. You can deny it was you but we all know it was. She was a lot kinder in her rebuttal to you than I would have been.


If you think profiles are accurate and not subject to change then you should go back to the beginning of the war on terror and read the beginning profiles on terrorists, on Al-Qaeda and on ISIS. It's obvious the profiles of what a terrorist is and these organizations are not accurate: no one saw American-born citizens being recruited as terrorists; no one saw ISIS establishing a base in Mexico & making a deal for financial support with the Mexican Drug Cartel. Oh...and by the way, James Wright is the head profiler on the ISIS terrorist organization. To be respectful I want to give him credit when it's due.


Neither TexasT, fullmoon or I said anybody "Poofed into outerspace". That is not even germane to this conversation so you need to take that up with whoever said it.

Since I have no desire to see this case on WS shutdown again I will be ignoring all of your future posts.

Wow....Not sure what you're referring to Hurricane, but that was way way over the top, and unnecessary.

I've had a nagging question though. If I wanted to write a book, with a small group of people who were willing to help me investigate and write it, should I eventually be honest about my involvement, or should I be dishonest about my involvement. And if I used nefarious means to gain the information for my book, by using and abusing people and their trust, should I be honest about it, and shouldn't I feel guilty? Or not? What If I profited from the book? Shouldn't I feel guilty about that too? I was thinking that would carry a heavy burden of guilt personally, but may be some don't feel the same.

And, would there ever come a time that I would think to myself, "Who am I fooling, everyone knows what's going on, why not just be honest"?

Meh.......I'm placing too much hope in humanity aren't I.
 
The book you are referring to was written by David Warren. Not Kathee Baird and not Hurricane. Frankly, I can not believe a book was not written a long time ago. This is America, if you want to write a book, go for it. Vincent B. Wrote Helter Skelter, Truma Capote wrote In Cold Blood. Books will always be written thank God. The book about the missing women placed NO blame on the women.
 
I would dispute that a trusted person had to be used or that a ruse was used in order to gain entry. In fact that is what this discussion concerning the various profiles by LE is all about. It is not necessary for this to have happened; there is no physical evidence of such and either scenario only came to the forefront because of these profiles.

Garrison was not in GCJ on the FIP charge when the women were abducted. He had only been out of prison for 21 days but the other two had been out on parole much longer; one of them had been out on parole almost a yr. Garrison had served his full sentence, therefore he was not on parole. So all 3 were together & on the street. When he was arrested for FIP and placed in GCJ it was after the abduction. He knew he was facing his 3rd strike felony conviction with the FIP and would be going back to prison for a long stretch on a 3rd strike so he wanted to give LE something that could possibly ease his predicament and coincidentally LE wanted to talk to him about what he knew of the abduction. If he was involved in the abduction then he knew things could really get worse for him.

Whether he was involved or just knew what happened as he claimed, the fact remains that he gave LE information that resulted in the successful execution of 3 search warrants and the evidence recovered on those warrants remains sealed to this very day. That is something in the way of information that no other suspect has provided: not Cox, not any of the 3GR's, not the Thespian, the kids (rich or poor) or anyone else. But he did not give up everything he knows including the names of those who were involved. And LE didn't believe for one minute that he wasn't involved. He knows too many of the details not to have been involved. No PA makes a deal with a convicted rapist serving 40 consecutive yrs. It has been a waiting game ever since.

Let's discard the "trusted" scenario for discussion purposes. Obviously someone got into the house either through some illegal means or was purposely left in, possibly even because the door might have been locked. We don't know.

This may seem like a niggling point, but at the time that Garrison was bonded out of jail, he was already seen as a highly probable suspect. Offhand, I don't recall the date but it was some considerable time after the women went missing. If, in fact, he was considered at the highest level of probability, why wouldn't the SPD ensure that he could not escape through whatever means necessary? $50 seems awfully cheap for someone strongly suspected in the abduction and murder of three women. I'm not getting that part.

I do stand corrected on one point, however. It was my impression that all three of the GJ3 came out of prison at or about the same time.

I'm not altogether clear if what he actually knew as you say, "He knows too many of the details not to have been involved." Specifically I'm not clear on what details he actually provided since we don't know what those details were.

We also have the matter of Moore speaking publicly several years later that he wanted those "clean cut men" at George's found and interrogated. One could reasonably deduce that the suspicion of the GJ3 were not well founded (later on) since no one could believe that any of the GJ3 were "clean cut men." Thus, it appears that Moore had moved on from the GJ3 since the GJ came and went and no indictments resulted.

The most important thing to come out of that was that Cox's alibi collapsed. And he was working the neighborhood. I've never understood why so many seem to believe he is just jerking the police around. For the time and expense that the police and media put forth to question him it seems to me they must have believed he had information that they did not possess. However, give the devil his due, Cox fingered Garrison as someone he knew in one of his letters that were published. If Garrison didn't commit the crime I think it is altogether reasonable that he was told information by Cox.
 
Perhaps you are right. Cox is still on the suspect list. But, he has never given LE evidence, no seals are in place from Cox's information, and, he brought up SG's name after articles had been in the paper concerning SG.
 
I just finished DW's book and found his hypothesis very compelling. Looking at the suspect pool it's amazing how so many are linked. From that I do believe his theory of what the motive was - SG was selling drugs to the grave robbers, GC found out about the impending court case and was scared Suzie or Sherrill would reveal who they were buying drugs from. He set in motion the plan for SG and a couple of accomplices to go to the house that night to snatch the two (they would not have known three were there). I think the porch globe was taken off and smashed on purpose so as to have someone come to the front door to investigate. They then forced their way into the house that way. I don't think it has anything to do with a person being let in because they were trusted. The fact that information from the search warrants is now sealed adds more weight to the theory. If they found nothing of value why would it be sealed?

It is just a theory and I know there are lots more. However up until now this one makes the most sense to me.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
The book you are referring to was written by David Warren. Not Kathee Baird and not Hurricane. Frankly, I can not believe a book was not written a long time ago. This is America, if you want to write a book, go for it. Vincent B. Wrote Helter Skelter, Truma Capote wrote In Cold Blood. Books will always be written thank God. The book about the missing women placed NO blame on the women.
Correction......The book "YOU" are referring to is the one you mentioned above. I never mentioned any specific book. I never mentioned anybody's names either. Why would you even mention that book, or any of the names that you did.....I didn't, nor did I ask for them. But now that you've let the cat is out of the bag, you've removed any doubt some of us have had about what's been going on on these forums for the past few years. None of you are fooling anyone anymore. The motives are more than clear now. Good luck with the "Best Seller".
 
I just finished DW's book and found his hypothesis very compelling. Looking at the suspect pool it's amazing how so many are linked. From that I do believe his theory of what the motive was - SG was selling drugs to the grave robbers, GC found out about the impending court case and was scared Suzie or Sherrill would reveal who they were buying drugs from. He set in motion the plan for SG and a couple of accomplices to go to the house that night to snatch the two (they would not have known three were there). I think the porch globe was taken off and smashed on purpose so as to have someone come to the front door to investigate. They then forced their way into the house that way. I don't think it has anything to do with a person being let in because they were trusted. The fact that information from the search warrants is now sealed adds more weight to the theory. If they found nothing of value why would it be sealed?

It is just a theory and I know there are lots more. However up until now this one makes the most sense to me.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I, and several others would recommend that you dig a little deeper than the "Books Theory". And don't place a lot of weight on the search warrant being "Sealed". It's a common procedure in an active investigation, and doesn't mean that anything of value was ever found......Period!
 
Why should I dig deeper? What else is there? Curious to hear your thoughts.

TIA :)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Guys, this thread is in danger of being closed again. We really don't want that happening so can we please ease off the bickering?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Why should I dig deeper? What else is there? Curious to hear your thoughts.

TIA :)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Because if you believe that GC had anything to do with the 3MW crime.......I've got some swamp land in Florida you might be interested in. Dig deeper..............
 
With respect, you don't know for sure he didn't have anything to do with it. This forum is about expressing opinions and sharing theories. Until this crime is solved I don't think anyone can claim to know the answer.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Let's discard the "trusted" scenario for discussion purposes. Obviously someone got into the house either through some illegal means or was purposely left in, possibly even because the door might have been locked. We don't know.

This may seem like a niggling point, but at the time that Garrison was bonded out of jail, he was already seen as a highly probable suspect. Offhand, I don't recall the date but it was some considerable time after the women went missing. If, in fact, he was considered at the highest level of probability, why wouldn't the SPD ensure that he could not escape through whatever means necessary? $50 seems awfully cheap for someone strongly suspected in the abduction and murder of three women. I'm not getting that part.

I do stand corrected on one point, however. It was my impression that all three of the GJ3 came out of prison at or about the same time.

I'm not altogether clear if what he actually knew as you say, "He knows too many of the details not to have been involved." Specifically I'm not clear on what details he actually provided since we don't know what those details were.

We also have the matter of Moore speaking publicly several years later that he wanted those "clean cut men" at George's found and interrogated. One could reasonably deduce that the suspicion of the GJ3 were not well founded (later on) since no one could believe that any of the GJ3 were "clean cut men." Thus, it appears that Moore had moved on from the GJ3 since the GJ came and went and no indictments resulted.

The most important thing to come out of that was that Cox's alibi collapsed. And he was working the neighborhood. I've never understood why so many seem to believe he is just jerking the police around. For the time and expense that the police and media put forth to question him it seems to me they must have believed he had information that they did not possess. However, give the devil his due, Cox fingered Garrison as someone he knew in one of his letters that were published. If Garrison didn't commit the crime I think it is altogether reasonable that he was told information by Cox.

Richard, not that it makes any difference other than to try & make the amount look minuscule, but you have Garrison's bond amount incorrect. His bond was reduced to an amount he could make (otherwise he couldn't) and talk to LE in a more conducive setting (he was not going to be seen by other inmates talking in GCJ). That was one of his requirements and as stated earlier Garrison was not going to give up everything he knew but his motive in talking was to try & ease the consequences on the felony 3rd strike he was facing. It was early in the investigation & LE certainly wanted to talk to him (after all he was an ex con) but he was not yet a "highly probable suspect" as you claim.

Can you cite any published account where Cox states that he was "working the neighborhood" or any language that would pin that down? What he says is that he probably worked the area because he did cable work all over town. His ex employer can not produce work records to substantiate where he worked.

In correspondence with Ron Davis, "Cox went on to write that he could tell the News-Leader reporter where the bodies were, but he wouldn't do so because the reporter would have to give him up to police." (N-L June 8, 2006). Of course Cox has never produced anything of value so it is not likely true that he knows where the bodies are, but I believe this statement is what caused Janis McCall to make her comment:

"I would like him, if he knows something, to tell what he knows," Janis McCall says. "He's going to be in prison another 20-some years. His appeals are gone by the wayside. .... He's said they were dead and buried around Springfield. How does he know that? I don't know if he'll ever give up the right information. I want to know where my daughter is, that's what I would ask the man." (N-L June 8, 2006).

She is clearly questioning whether he knows anything ("if he knows something") ("How does he know that?") and that is why he is probably the one in prison that she would like to speak to. If there is a chance that he does know where her daughter's remains are then she would like for him to tell LE because he isn't going anywhere, anyway. So if he really knew anything why wouldn't he use that as a bargaining chip?

Since then Cox has said he is tired of the attention and refuses all interviews.
 
SG's prison term expired on May 15, 1992. He returned to MO.

One of the GJ3 was paroled from prison, for a theft charge, on 2/6/92. He broke parole when he absconded from the state of KS and came to MO.

The other one was allowed to come to MO on parole April 13, 1992. He absconded from MO on August of 1992.
 
SG's prison term expired on May 15, 1992. He returned to MO.

One of the GJ3 was paroled from prison, for a theft charge, on 2/6/92. He broke parole when he absconded from the state of KS and came to MO.

The other one was allowed to come to MO on parole April 13, 1992. He absconded from MO on August of 1992.

Actually the KS parole was issued 10/91, he then jumped parole and it was recorded 2/6/92. So by June he had been out of prison ~8 months.

On the one paroled to MO his PO said he quit making his required meetings in June. The PO tried to find him for a few wks before reporting him in the wind. It is recorded on his record as 8/21/92.
 
8 months makes so much more sense. Much more time for reconnecting.

I know you are probably a voting Greene county resident and will know this but apparently not everyone is so well informed on the responsibilities of the County Commission:

Quote:

The Greene County Commission is the executive body of Greene County operating under guidelines established in the Revised Statutes of the State of Missouri. Within that authority the Commission enacts ordinances, resolutions and policies, supervises the activities of county departments, fixes salaries, adopts the annual budget, provides for construction and other services, and conducts hearings on planning and zoning matters.

The county commission is comprised of three elected officials who serve four-year terms.

Close Quote.

https://www.greenecountymo.org/commission/


Among the county depts the commissioners supervise would be the Sheriff's Dept.
 

Richard, not that it makes any difference other than to try & make the amount look minuscule, but you have Garrison's bond amount incorrect. His bond was reduced to an amount he could make (otherwise he couldn't) and talk to LE in a more conducive setting (he was not going to be seen by other inmates talking in GCJ). That was one of his requirements and as stated earlier Garrison was not going to give up everything he knew but his motive in talking was to try & ease the consequences on the felony 3rd strike he was facing. It was early in the investigation & LE certainly wanted to talk to him (after all he was an ex con) but he was not yet a "highly probable suspect" as you claim.

Can you cite any published account where Cox states that he was "working the neighborhood" or any language that would pin that down? What he says is that he probably worked the area because he did cable work all over town. His ex employer can not produce work records to substantiate where he worked.

In correspondence with Ron Davis, "Cox went on to write that he could tell the News-Leader reporter where the bodies were, but he wouldn't do so because the reporter would have to give him up to police." (N-L June 8, 2006). Of course Cox has never produced anything of value so it is not likely true that he knows where the bodies are, but I believe this statement is what caused Janis McCall to make her comment:

"I would like him, if he knows something, to tell what he knows," Janis McCall says. "He's going to be in prison another 20-some years. His appeals are gone by the wayside. .... He's said they were dead and buried around Springfield. How does he know that? I don't know if he'll ever give up the right information. I want to know where my daughter is, that's what I would ask the man." (N-L June 8, 2006).

She is clearly questioning whether he knows anything ("if he knows something") ("How does he know that?") and that is why he is probably the one in prison that she would like to speak to. If there is a chance that he does know where her daughter's remains are then she would like for him to tell LE because he isn't going anywhere, anyway. So if he really knew anything why wouldn't he use that as a bargaining chip?

Since then Cox has said he is tired of the attention and refuses all interviews.


On the bond matter, the actual bond was $500 as per my recollection. However, the "bondee" only puts up 10% of the bond amount. The bail bondsman is on the hook for the whole amount in the event the individual escapes. Offhand, I don't know if that was ever paid or Garrison was apprehended prior to the expiration of the bond period.

You've answered a question I have pondered. So it was in fact Cox who Mrs. McCall wanted to talk to. That seems to dovetail with what Asher had to say about not wanting "him" to be wheeled in on a gurney but simply to reveal what, if anything, he knew.

I suppose "probably worked the neighborhood" is to be distinguished from positive confirmation he did in fact work at this location. In any event, he does not deny that he could have worked there so we are left to ponder his meaning.

Just so we are on the same page, when was it that Garrison was seen as a top tier suspect? The rape occurred after the women went missing. The mere fact he was bonded out must have meant that the police viewed him as having information although I do not understand why there wasn't more care to ensure he would not escape their custody.

I'm not aware (perhaps you are) that he ever provided any information that led to anything productive. So far as I know he didn't or if he did, it has never been revealed to the public. The fact that these searches are "sealed" doesn't provide any useful information that I can discern. It might have meant anything but that the police or prosecutor simply didn't want whatever they did find not in the public domain. Perhaps they discovered items having to do with other crimes. We don't really know, do we?

There is the matter of where Mrs. McCall wanted to talk to two individuals. One was in prison and the other was not in prison. We don't know the one who is or was on the street do we? That may be the more productive road to take. Cox is unlikely to produce anything so that's a dead end unless for some reasons (perhaps on his deathbed) he decides to reveal what he knows, if anything.

I'd like to know who this person on the street was known by Mrs. McCall. Offhand, do you know? You need not post any name. Just curious.
 
Guys, this thread is in danger of being closed again. We really don't want that happening so can we please ease off the bickering?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Hear, hear!!

We can have differing opinions as we often do without having it become personal. That contributes nothing to understanding this case. I'd like to know sometime in my own lifetime what occurred here and assume most people here do as well.
 
Jennibee,

Just to bring you up to date on some history here both Monkeymann & fullmoon have openly accused me of being David J. Warren; of writing Warren's book or contributing to it. Nothing could be farther from the truth. I have never met Warren, spoken to him or furnished any research to him for his book or anything else. If you read what Warren has written and what I have posted on these forums it is apparent that while our theories may include some of the same suspects, our theories aren't even in agreement. And finally Kathee Baird has worked for David J. & Mary Warren at their Ozark Sentinel and knows them personally. And Kathee certainly knows I am not Warren.

Monkeymann and fullmoon have previously claimed that they knew my name and had researched me and that I worked in LE for the sheriff's dept and that I had personal relationships with nefarious individuals. The claim was even made that my picture appeared on the depts website. And once again, none of that is true. A threat was made that maybe they would turn me into the County Commissioner's office. Of course, no apologies were ever offered and apparently Monkeymann still believe his own BS.

So you want to watch your back!

Hurricane, I have never accused you of being Warren. I don't know what you are talking about, or your other accusations. Please stop this nonsense, or this board will be shut down again. Can't we all just discuss this case in a civil manner? I have only posted a couple of times since the board reopened, and have not argued with anyone or even taken issue with their theories. Why would you want to start arguing with people again? Please everyone just abide by the rules and avoid getting into arguments so this topic is not locked up again. Thanks!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
173
Guests online
2,573
Total visitors
2,746

Forum statistics

Threads
599,743
Messages
18,099,054
Members
230,919
Latest member
jackojohnnie
Back
Top