Theories discussion: What could have happened to Haleigh? #3

[kamky]

Well, the thing is, he's RC's lawyer. Thus he is expected to spin things in his client's favor, which is why spin in his client's favor is taken with a grain of salt. When he accidentally lets slip things that don't look so well for his client they're noted because there's a good chance they might actually be true.

What's interesting to me is that lawyers are so in the habit of spinning for their clients, that sometimes they spin when they don't need too! I think that may be what happened in this case. Spinning when it's not needed can just generate more questions.

 

[kamky]

LOL! I knew I wouldn't have to look far for someone to 'point out' that LE has stated that Ron and Crystal are not suspects. As someone else has already pointed out 'not suspects' and 'cleared' are not one in the same by any stretch of the imagination.
As far as any evidence found in the home (assuming that's where the crime occured) I have NO idea what evidence LE has or doesn't have, do you? I wish I did, perhaps then this case would not be so absolutly frustrating. You know, sometimes a perp can get very lucky, depending on exactly 'how the harm' that may have befallen HaLeigh happened (inside or outside her home) and leave very little evidence behind. I'm not asking you or anyone else to believe me or feel the same way, this is the theory thread...and theories, just like opinions are a dime a dozen. This just happens to be MINE. :yes:

bbm

Not to belabor a point...The word "suspect" has a legal definition in definitions.uslegal.com, and is defined as "someone who is under suspicion, often formally announced as being under investigation by law enforcement officials".

However, the word "clear" or "cleared" is not in definitions.uslegal.com, so I wonder if this is a unofficial term which does not really have legal meaning. If this is the case, then "not a suspect" has more weight to it than "cleared".

 

[cyberborg]

bbm

Not to belabor a point...The word "suspect" has a legal definition in definitions.uslegal.com, and is defined as "someone who is under suspicion, often formally announced as being under investigation by law enforcement officials".

However, the word "clear" or "cleared" is not in definitions.uslegal.com, so I wonder if this is a unofficial term which does not really have legal meaning. If this is the case, then "not a suspect" has more weight to it than "cleared".

To me, it all depends on what the meaning of 'is' .... is :crazy:

As I stated previously, no-one is really 'not a suspect' or 'cleared' until the crime is solved and perp is arrested --- it is very typical for LE to allow someone to feel publicly that they are not under scrutiny when they are the focus and being investigated. What does this mean?

It really doesn't mean anything at all. It is irrelevant and we are debating semantics based on what we think we know, which is both dated and not necessarily the facts. :banghead:

How does this help find HaLeigh and develop leads and places to search? Who cares about Ron's current status?

 

[kamky]

To me, it all depends on what the meaning of 'is' .... is :crazy:

As I stated previously, no-one is really 'not a suspect' or 'cleared' until the crime is solved and perp is arrested --- it is very typical for LE to allow someone to feel publicly that they are not under scrutiny when they are the focus and being investigated. What does this mean?

It really doesn't mean anything at all. It is irrelevant and we are debating semantics based on what we think we know, which is both dated and not necessarily the facts. :banghead:

How does this help find HaLeigh and develop leads and places to search? Who cares about Ron's current status?

The reason to want to know what LE really means is that if they are telling us the truth and if what they mean by "Ron and Crystal are not suspects" is that LE has ruled them out as perps of this crime, then that gives us two people that we can scratch off our list for consideration. So we should look elsewhere for leads.

But, I agree with you that this has been beat to death. And I don't think that LE is going to clarify what they mean for our benefit! (sob!)

 

[kiki the parrot]

And I have an "opinion" on a few posts which refer back to previous outdated statements by LE when we have updated, more current statements available. LE has not characterized this as a stranger abduction for some time but rather, after first ruling out a long list of RSO's, other peripheral people, and exhausting every possible angle, has had their focus on family and inner circle in this investigation. The PCSO Press Release (by Lt Johnny Greenwood) on Haleigh’s 6th birthday which details their efforts makes this very plain, and does not characterize this as a stranger abduction.

"Investigators from the Putnam County Sheriff’s Office, the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and investigators from agencies throughout Florida have invested thousands of man-hours into the investigation thus far.

Here are some of the facts:

* We have received in excess of 4,000 leads, all of which have been followed up.
* We have conducted 138 formal interviews and several hundred informal interviews with potential witnesses. DNA samples were collected from many of those interviewed and compared to evidence collected in the case.
* FDLE processed the crime scene. Many items of potential evidentiary value were collected and sent to FDLE’s crime lab for analysis (ie. for fingerprints and DNA). All of evidence has been examined and/or processed, but none of it has identified any suspect or additional leads as to who the suspect(s) may be.
* We have searched thousands of acres, including all property south of Highway 17 near the Cummings residence.
* We have had numerous underwater recovery and search teams search all of the water near the area of the disappearance.
* Aviation assets have conducted several airborne searches.
* K9 assets have searched the area on several occasions.
* Volunteer civilian searchers on foot and horseback searched the wooded areas near the residence.

At this point, the evidence and investigatory effort has minimized the likelihood that Haleigh’s disappearance is the work of a stranger."

(snip) In this most recent update Lt Greenwood also stated Misty "continues to hold important answers," that she's "failed to provide any sort of detailed accounting" of the hours during late evening and early morning of Haleigh’s disappearance, and "physical evidence" at the scene contradicts her "sketchy account" of her evening activities.

To summarize, the most recent indication LE's given is that, w the combined resources and manpower of PCSO, FDLE and FBI, having followed now in excess of 4,000 leads, 138 formal interviews (plus hundreds more informal witness interviews), dna samples, lab analyses, fingerprints, phone records, both LE's, and TES' searches of thousands of acres including K9, horseback, underwater, aviation searches and w/e else hasn't been disclosed to the public, it's led LE to NOT characterize this as a stranger abduction. So once again, on the wild assumption LE may have a fact or two that I don't, I take my cues from them. I don't expect everybody here to get on board (scrolling by is an option) and won't force my own theories upon anyone. Afterall we are on the Theories thread, where people come to share their ideas and not be beraded or badgered for them (anymore than I come to WS to do daily battle over well worn differences). I thank others for the same respect. JMO

http://www.thesky973.com/pages/5022713.php

arrot:

 

[cyberborg]

I have been saying for months this exact same theory- Except I think he could have came home and something happened to haleigh and he did all he did, dispose, stage a door, and Misty was out hard because she was sleeping hard after doing a lot of drugs the weekend prior, your body can take only so much-

In the voice test, she registers a "not sure" when asked if Ronald had anything to do with this- I am sure she suspects, but because she was passed out, she has no idea for sure-

But then again, she did register as not putting Haleigh to bed that night, so Annette sykes being there so close to her bedtime sets off alarms-

There could have been a fight between the two and Haleigh got in the middle and was hit and suffered an injury that could have gotten worse over the hours, that may also make Misty register unsure towards Ron because it was a total accident- Rons the only one with a hand injury that day, hitting the door, doesnt mean there wasn't a injury he was trying to hide-

Hope we find out answers soon-

jmo

Thanks.

I do think that it is along these lines or those of Pondering Mind's theory. We should explore and discuss these theories based on what we know, which admittedly is little.

No offense but ... we should not simply seek to knock them down based on personal beliefs or out-dated statements. We are Sleuthers and we should explore the theory completely and fully absent what attorney's or LE say or said.

There is no concrete timeline so something could have happened to HaLeigh before Ron went to work (or as a result of something that happened before Ron went to work). Also, given recent revelations on the heated argument, non response to 20+ calls and, Tommy reportedly going to the MH at 10pm --- everything and everyone is back on the table.

You don't get to the truth by closing your mind, you need to test each and every theory. As NG admitted about the Somer case tonight, you cannot assume it was a male SO and exclude everyone else from the search.

Likewise, as Kiki posted things have changed a LOT since Day 1 and recent developments do not mean we can definitively rule anyone in or out at this time, as I am sure LE is doing today. ETA: We even got news that Ron's work hours are far from concrete and he was working on odd jobs outside and it is un-certain if he was present all shift.

I'd like to discuss and explore these theories, both with Ron's and Misty's temper and jealousy because I don't believe it was intentional murder but an accident or overdose that was not good. Based on the 3-day bender, events of that day and, the heated argument -- the incident is simple, nothing elaborate. Like Occams razor.

I am open and comfortable with discussing since this is the thread for theories and not media or LE statements on public info.

 

[kamky]

~SNIP~
Here are some of the facts:

* We have received in excess of 4,000 leads, all of which have been followed up.
* We have conducted 138 formal interviews and several hundred informal interviews with potential witnesses. DNA samples were collected from many of those interviewed and compared to evidence collected in the case.
* FDLE processed the crime scene. Many items of potential evidentiary value were collected and sent to FDLE’s crime lab for analysis (ie. for fingerprints and DNA). All of evidence has been examined and/or processed, but none of it has identified any suspect or additional leads as to who the suspect(s) may be.
* We have searched thousands of acres, including all property south of Highway 17 near the Cummings residence.
* We have had numerous underwater recovery and search teams search all of the water near the area of the disappearance.
* Aviation assets have conducted several airborne searches.
* K9 assets have searched the area on several occasions.
* Volunteer civilian searchers on foot and horseback searched the wooded areas near the residence.[/I]

At this point, the evidence and investigatory effort has minimized the likelihood that Haleigh’s disappearance is the work of a stranger."

(snip) In this most recent update Lt Greenwood also stated Misty "continues to hold important answers," that she's "failed to provide any sort of detailed accounting" of the hours during late evening or early morning of Haleigh’s disappearance, and "physical evidence" at the scene contradicts her "sketchy account" of her evening activities.
~SNIP~
arrot:

Whew, when I see that list, it makes me think that LE must be totally exhausted!
I wonder about semantics, though. Misty was considered one of the family. If she had "friends" over that night (ones that knew Haleigh) and they did drugs and took Haleigh, I don't think that would be considered a "stranger" abduction, would it?

 

[cyberborg]

Whew, when I see that list, it makes me think that LE must be totally exhausted!
I wonder about semantics, though. Misty was considered one of the family. If she had "friends" over that night (ones that knew Haleigh) and they did drugs and took Haleigh, I don't think that would be considered a "stranger" abduction, would it?

Good point!!! That is a possibility and something that needs to be explored as well. Misty did recently say about a dream and a party and 4 people, IIRC, at the poly/hypno.

Was this Misty's way of trying to offer another distraction or present the truth?

I always wonder if Ron has made the threats, as reported by TM that Misty is too frightened to tell the truth, whether it was her or Ron for fear of her life and, this was a way to slip some info out. The desire for hypno or truth drug could be an appeal to be able to tell the truth without being conscious.

A party is a possibility with Misty drugged out, something happens to HaLeigh and a cover-up ensues.

My only thing is, if it was someone not close to the family then HaLeigh has more chance of being dumped and found since there isn't that connection and the family/Misty is only lying about a party.

The inconsistent lies seem to point to more than Misty entertaining a party and more towards lashing out or an overdose and HaLeigh being made to disappear forever.

 

[kamky]

Good point!!! That is a possibility and something that needs to be explored as well. Misty did recently say about a dream and a party and 4 people, IIRC, at the poly/hypno.

Was this Misty's way of trying to offer another distraction or present the truth?

I always wonder if Ron has made the threats, as reported by TM that Misty is too frightened to tell the truth, whether it was her or Ron for fear of her life and, this was a way to slip some info out. The desire for hypno or truth drug could be an appeal to be able to tell the truth without being conscious.

A party is a possibility with Misty drugged out, something happens to HaLeigh and a cover-up ensues.

My only thing is, if it was someone not close to the family then HaLeigh has more chance of being dumped and found since there isn't that connection and the family/Misty is only lying about a party.

The inconsistent lies seem to point to more than Misty entertaining a party and more towards lashing out or an overdose and HaLeigh being made to disappear forever.

I tend to agree. Misty's recent drug deal gone bad made a big impression on me because it shows Misty's continued involvement with drugs. This makes more probable the theory that drugs played a very significant role in Haleigh's abduction. For me, this lessens the likelihood that Ron was involved and increases the likelihood that Misty was involved.

There is really more evidence that Misty is the one currently into drugs. All of Ron's drug arrests were old ones. Ron had made an effort to get a job and provide a home for his children. His job was one where drug testing was a possibility. These make me feel that Ron had moved away from drugs and was becoming more responsible.

We don't see this with Misty. Her weekend with WBG and her drug-using friends may not have been a one-time occurence. The failed drug buy with Misty's new friends shows that she is probably still using.

It is possible that someone came over to the MH that night to sell or bring drugs to Misty. They may have used them together and Misty passed out. Either Haleigh was taken as revenge against Misty or because Haleigh woke up and saw something.

Not wanting to admit she was using in the MH would certainly explain why Misty has acted strangely, her inconsistent statements, and her test failures.

ETA - The thing that makes me think that Haleigh was taken, as opposed to hurt in the MH is the lack of physical evidence. I think LE would have found something. And, I think this happened before 10:00, assuming Tommy told the truth about coming to the MH at 10 and banging on the door. I think Misty was passed out and Haleigh was already gone, and Jr also slept through the noise. IMO, Misty woke up at 2:30 and discovered Haleigh missing (not 3:00).

Another ETA - The difference in Misty's tone & demeanor between the two 911 calls is striking. This is another thing that makes me think this is all on Misty. Not that she harmed Haleigh herself, but she created the situation.

 

[kiki the parrot]

Thanks.

I do think that it is along these lines or those of Pondering Mind's theory. We should explore and discuss these theories based on what we know, which admittedly is little.

No offense but ... we should not simply seek to knock them down based on personal beliefs or out-dated statements. We are Sleuthers and we should explore the theory completely and fully absent what attorney's or LE say or said.

There is no concrete timeline so something could have happened to HaLeigh before Ron went to work (or as a result of something that happened before Ron went to work). Also, given recent revelations on the heated argument, non response to 20+ calls and, Tommy reportedly going to the MH at 10pm --- everything and everyone is back on the table.

You don't get to the truth by closing your mind, you need to test each and every theory. As NG admitted about the Somer case tonight, you cannot assume it was a male SO and exclude everyone else from the search.

Likewise, as Kiki posted things have changed a LOT since Day 1 and recent developments do not mean we can definitively rule anyone in or out at this time, as I am sure LE is doing today. ETA: We even got news that Ron's work hours are far from concrete and he was working on odd jobs outside and it is un-certain if he was present all shift.

I'd like to discuss and explore these theories, both with Ron's and Misty's temper and jealousy because I don't believe it was intentional murder but an accident or overdose that was not good. Based on the 3-day bender, events of that day and, the heated argument -- the incident is simple, nothing elaborate. Like Occams razor.

I am open and comfortable with discussing since this is the thread for theories and not media or LE statements on public info.

Count me in friend. My mind isn't so open my brains are apt to fall out (lol) but like you, w every successive unfolding development I am continually reassessing. And I've considered the points you make noteworthy, and worthy of further discussion. It's a relief to know others have taken note and are troubled by these more recent revelations too, as my thoughts continue to run along these lines as well. JMO

arrot:

 

[kiki the parrot]

Whew, when I see that list, it makes me think that LE must be totally exhausted!
I wonder about semantics, though. Misty was considered one of the family. If she had "friends" over that night (ones that knew Haleigh) and they did drugs and took Haleigh, I don't think that would be considered a "stranger" abduction, would it?

That is possible, ie open to interpretation, albeit would leave many questions still unanswered.

arrot:

 

[faefrost]

I tend to agree. Misty's recent drug deal gone bad made a big impression on me because it shows Misty's continued involvement with drugs. This makes more probable the theory that drugs played a very significant role in Haleigh's abduction. For me, this lessens the likelihood that Ron was involved and increases the likelihood that Misty was involved.

There is really more evidence that Misty is the one currently into drugs. All of Ron's drug arrests were old ones. Ron had made an effort to get a job and provide a home for his children. His job was one where drug testing was a possibility. These make me feel that Ron had moved away from drugs and was becoming more responsible.

We don't see this with Misty. Her weekend with WBG and her drug-using friends may not have been a one-time occurence. The failed drug buy with Misty's new friends shows that she is probably still using.

It is possible that someone came over to the MH that night to sell or bring drugs to Misty. They may have used them together and Misty passed out. Either Haleigh was taken as revenge against Misty or because Haleigh woke up and saw something.

Not wanting to admit she was using in the MH would certainly explain why Misty has acted strangely, her inconsistent statements, and her test failures.

ETA - The thing that makes me think that Haleigh was taken, as opposed to hurt in the MH is the lack of physical evidence. I think LE would have found something. And, I think this happened before 10:00, assuming Tommy told the truth about coming to the MH at 10 and banging on the door. I think Misty was passed out and Haleigh was already gone, and Jr also slept through the noise. IMO, Misty woke up at 2:30 and discovered Haleigh missing (not 3:00).

Another ETA - The difference in Misty's tone & demeanor between the two 911 calls is striking. This is another thing that makes me think this is all on Misty. Not that she harmed Haleigh herself, but she created the situation.

More and more the supposed deposition of Joey, and what we have heard of it from NayNay's letters, it sounds like a plausable scenario.

- LE does not believe its a stranger abduction from the home. Evidence in the MH does not match the described scenarios. No forensics beyond what would be normally expected as a home.

- While it is possible that the child could have been taken from the home by a third party, the lack of any evidence makes it a long shot. No signs of a crime, no signs of other people. means the easy path is "The occupents went elsewhere, and the crime occured elsewhere.

- We have more then enough evidence that Misty will go to small drug parties of friends. She had been on a 3 day binge of them just prior. Ron was concerned and paranoid when she returned, so much so that he kept calling and had an arguement about her going out. we now see her doing the same after Hayleigh is missing, And further she goes into some scary situations to get what she needs. Did she take those children along for the ride?

 

[Kateyes]

I have been reading the theories here - Websleuthers you guys are the greatest. I have always wondered about Misty and drug involvement. Maybe she left the trailer residence to buy some drugs, and left Haleigh and JR alone. When she got back Haleigh had gotten into something and died, or had an accident -reaching for something high and fell- and Misty panicked. She called some friends for help, and poor Haleigh was dumped into the pond that was not far from the trailer. A dead body is not easy to carry, sadly even a child's dead body. This could explain the cinder block which was holding the door open. When she got back from the pond she forgot to remove the cinder block, or perhaps shrewdly thought she would leave it there to make it look like someone came in and took Haliegh.

Another possible scenario is that Misty had a number of druggie friends over to party with her. No one was really watching either child, and Haleigh had some kind of accident - a fall, or an overdose as was suggested in the letter dropped off to LE. Then Misty and her friends disposed of the body. It has also bothered me that the timeline is so vague - I have also posted previously that something could have happened to Haleigh before Ron left for work, and Misty helped him dispose. He does at times seem genuinely to be in grief- so I am on the fence about his involvement. But Misty definitely knows more than she is saying. I wish LE would have arrested her for the drug deal, and then maybe she would talk. This whole case is extremely bothersome to me. Sadly I do not think Haleigh is alive anymore. I want her to be found and justice to be done. Why are some of these cases so hard to crack? Rhetorical question, no need to answer as there is no answer.Going to bed, have to get away from all of these missing children cases.

 

[PorcineGranny]

Kateyes, Let me throw something else out there. Suppose Misty took the kids, or had someone come by to bring drugs and she passed out while they were there. Remember her dream. The person that sold the drugs may have brought someone else. Misty sees them in a dream like state but she cannot do anything. Whoever it is or was Ron is terriblyafraid of them for some reason and I'm betting it has to do with drugs. Ron has to have knowledge or be involved or nothing falls into place. JMO Oh, shes dead and has been for quite a time. I think she will be found, not sure when.

 

[Whisperer]

I have to review the voice analysis again. Didn't M say something about a gun in her mouth, maybe denying it but nonetheless bringing it up?

The deer blood in the car...always gets to me.

She is either delusional or giving clues in an orgainized manner.

If only we knew what that house really looked like before TN got to it....grrrrrrrrr. It would help in figuring out things and profiling but even that was cleaned up.

 

[Whisperer]

You know Porcine, I just don't believe that 3:30 in the morning that day went down as RC and Misty says it did. Misty reported it but w/o much conviction. RC should have placed that call regardless if was there or not. He got the info from Misty and should have spoken with 911 himself. There was a reason he gave her that to do. He didn't want to get caught up in answering questions and getting put on the spot. It is always about Ron, isn't it?

I don't know or can't even guess what M was up to that night. To tell you the truth, I can't even fathom her being there in the first few hours. I think she was mad at RC and refused to watch the kids...MO. He was seething, I bet. He wanted her to watch the kids so he could go to work and she may have been giving him a hard time about it.

 

[curvecuti]

You know Porcine, I just don't believe that 3:30 in the morning that day went down as RC and Misty says it did. Misty reported it but w/o much conviction. RC should have placed that call regardless if was there or not. He got the info from Misty and should have spoken with 911 himself. There was a reason he gave her that to do. He didn't want to get caught up in answering questions and getting put on the spot. It is always about Ron, isn't it?

I don't know or can't even guess what M was up to that night. To tell you the truth, I can't even fathom her being there in the first few hours. I think she was mad at RC and refused to watch the kids...MO. He was seething, I bet. He wanted her to watch the kids so he could go to work and she may have been giving him a hard time about it.

BBM the only problem I have w/ that is, she wasn't the only person he could have gotten to wacth the kids. I'm sure TN or AS would have come over or he could have taken them there.

 

[Crosby87]

I have a clock radio with red numbers and it is impossible to look at and see only I number. Has anyone else looked at their clock radio to see what I mean? Misty Croslin said she woke up and only saw '3' on the clock radio; this is not possible IMO.

 

[debs]

I have to review the voice analysis again. Didn't M say something about a gun in her mouth, maybe denying it but nonetheless bringing it up?

The deer blood in the car...always gets to me.

She is either delusional or giving clues in an orgainized manner.

If only we knew what that house really looked like before TN got to it....grrrrrrrrr. It would help in figuring out things and profiling but even that was cleaned up.

Whisperer, the thing about the gun in the mouth........Misty mentioned it without prompting (no one asked her about it) and offered it in the negative "I mean, no one has a gun in my mouth making me do things, that's just stupid." (Close enough for now...i'll find the quote if needed.

When one, unprompted and in the negative, makes a statement like that, it is indicative to me (ME, MY OPINION) that it is an event that did happen, and that she is making sure to validate verbally that she is not supposed to tell anyone.

This is not a case of "If Misty is talking, she's lying" as much as it is a technique to apply when looking at someone's statements.

 

[faefrost]

I have been reading the theories here - Websleuthers you guys are the greatest. I have always wondered about Misty and drug involvement. Maybe she left the trailer residence to buy some drugs, and left Haleigh and JR alone. When she got back Haleigh had gotten into something and died, or had an accident -reaching for something high and fell- and Misty panicked. She called some friends for help, and poor Haleigh was dumped into the pond that was not far from the trailer. A dead body is not easy to carry, sadly even a child's dead body. This could explain the cinder block which was holding the door open. When she got back from the pond she forgot to remove the cinder block, or perhaps shrewdly thought she would leave it there to make it look like someone came in and took Haliegh.

Another possible scenario is that Misty had a number of druggie friends over to party with her. No one was really watching either child, and Haleigh had some kind of accident - a fall, or an overdose as was suggested in the letter dropped off to LE. Then Misty and her friends disposed of the body. It has also bothered me that the timeline is so vague - I have also posted previously that something could have happened to Haleigh before Ron left for work, and Misty helped him dispose. He does at times seem genuinely to be in grief- so I am on the fence about his involvement. But Misty definitely knows more than she is saying. I wish LE would have arrested her for the drug deal, and then maybe she would talk. This whole case is extremely bothersome to me. Sadly I do not think Haleigh is alive anymore. I want her to be found and justice to be done. Why are some of these cases so hard to crack? Rhetorical question, no need to answer as there is no answer.Going to bed, have to get away from all of these missing children cases.

I think part of what LE means with some of their comments about MC's stories not matching up is there is no forensic evidence of anything happening to Hayleigh in that MH. No signs of an accident, no signs of a death. No signs of bleeding or fluids. No signs of a clear break in or struggle (beyond the questionable cinderblock at the back door). No signs that anything out of the oridinary happened there.

A known friendly and responsible party, such as their babysitter, would simply take the kids and go elsewhere and leave no distinctive evidence. The home would simply look normal. I think LE believes whatever happened to Hayleigh happened outside of that home. She was not grabbed from the home, rather she was taken somewhere and whatever happened happened at the destination.