TN - Holly Bobo, 20, Darden, believed abducted 13 April 2011 - #25

[sumzero]

I, too, am of the opinion that the crime was planned -- but not necessarily for an extended period of time. It could've taken less than a week to learn that Mr. B and Mrs. B left the house at specific times. He might not have "staked out" the home for too long, though. It seems he might not have known about Clint being home. (Did Clint park his vehicle behind the house?) I, too, think that "camo man" parked his vehicle not too far off the road. He could've fled the area -- with Holly bound and in the trunk -- long before LE arrived on the scene.

 

[cluciano63]

All I know is, how is it working out for these various LE agencies, keeping everything so secret? How is working out for Kyron? Or for Holly? I won't say Hailey Dunn, because I am not at all sure they have a clue in that case, at least in how to proceed. But at some point, maybe some other LEA's will look around and say, "hmmm, maybe we should start asking for help from the public sooner, start giving them something to work with."

 

[Chili Fries]

It seems to me like there are two possibilities of this being relatively unplanned as far as specifically targeting Holly. Both would need Holly to be outside at some other point that morning:

- Perp is hunting land adjacent to the house and sees Holly outside, so he decides to wait for her to re-emerge from the house. Holly's family does owns the land around the house, especially to the north I believe. But I have a lot of land here in Alabama and wouldn't necessarily know if someone is hunting on my property.

- Perp is driving around that morning looking for victims and sees Holly outside. Maybe she went down to put outgoing mail in the mailbox. He stops down the road and waits for Holly to re-emerge. This makes me think of what happened to Kristi Cornwell. She was taking a walk down a rural road near her southern North Carolina house one evening when she was abducted. Her boyfriend was on the phone with her and heard her yell, "Don't take me!". Eventually her body was found (because of her brother's indefatigable search effort). The prime suspect was a North Georgia man who was also suspected of attacks in Georgia and Alabama. He killed himself in Atlanta when police attempted to arrest him for the rape of a college student.

This also ties in with the person above who said Holly's abductor may be experienced in this type of thing. It also makes me wonder if the perp may be from farther away than just the Parsons area. These predators roam around looking for vulnerable people and women in rural areas can be very vulnerable. Also makes me think of Shawn Hornbeck, his abductor lived farther away than LE suspected.

 

[Moonviolet]

All I know is, how is it working out for these various LE agencies, keeping everything so secret? How is working out for Kyron? Or for Holly? I won't say Hailey Dunn, because I am not at all sure they have a clue in that case, at least in how to proceed. But at some point, maybe some other LEA's will look around and say, "hmmm, maybe we should start asking for help from the public sooner, start giving them something to work with."

I've seen a lot of you posters say some amazingly astute, intuitive and with brilliant insight comments that LE should be listening to. I totally agree that LE should start asking for public help on cases like kyron, both Hailey's (sp) and Adjir. You guys may be what is needed to solve these horribly sad cases!:banghead:

 

[Eyehavehope]

Come on LE.
Come home Holly.
raying:

 

[Carla Lashelle]

BBM
You are making some strong statements as if they are proven fact that
you have knowledge of.
Forgive me for asking but have you been verified as insider or family?
When I just looked in the verified thread those listed as verified for this
case did not include your name.
Where has LE verified that this 'blood on the lunch box' did not happen?
I did link the article where it was reported to have blood on it.
And I also ran a quick websearch for articles saying no blood was found
on the lunchbox but failed to find even one entry.

I think I will wait to find out if you have been verified as family or an
insider or to see the linked denial about the blood on the lunch box
and the other info by LE in an MSM news article
before continuing this discussion with you.

*****************************
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1104/19/ng.01.html

LE has not verified that there was blood on the lunch bag as far as I know. That is why you will not find any reports about blood on the lunch bag because it wasn't there. Unless I missed something, the only report or video I recall that said there was blood on the lunch bag was incorrect. If I recall the context correctly the writer or reporter strung finding the blood in the car port and the lunch bag together into one sentence making it seem like blood was on the lunch bag.

No I am not an insider it says right on every post of mine that I live in Florida.
I would like you to link again to an official statement from LE saying there was blood on the lunch bag... I may have missed that. If its from something like Gather, etc. then I would discount it.

In some cases I do not repost links to things that have been posted her ad infinitum in earlier months. Perhaps you were not following this thread early on?

Here is the statement about finding the lunch bag by the side of the road. Thre are several other written and video statements saying the same thing. Sometimes there is also not one statement that described everything. For example one statement say the bag was found by the side of the road. Then some weeks later another statement mentions that the lunch was still packed inside, etc.

http://www.newschannel5.com/story/1...woman-found-in-decatur-county?redirected=true

Here is an ABC report mentioning the tape

http://abcnews.go.com/US/holly-bobo-search-police-make-significant-find-hunt/story?id=13448569

There is video of them finding the tape already posted here (its just feet from the side of the road). I recall posting a frame grab I took from the video as well. That should still be available.

Note also this report starts to blur the blood and the bag together by using them both in the same sentence.


Addendum:

I Noticed your transcript link. If you are saying the Deborah Norville interview (she was filling in for NG) is where it is confirmed blood was on the lunch bag, I would not hold that as official confirmation. There is a lot of stuff in that interview/from that show that is not accurate or at least does not match with any other known description of the events (like blood being across the lawn). The person saying there was blood on the bag is not law enforcement but rather a reporter. An earlier quote could be confusing... it says : " UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We know there was a lunch pail. We know there was blood." That does mean the blood was on the pail (???) it was a bag. And the speaker is unidentified.

 

[cluciano63]

Anything that originates from, or is sourced from something said on NG show, cannot be trusted. That is all there is to it, IMO. To my knowledge, NG has never been the only source of true and factual info about anything.

 

[Eileen730]

I have wondered about the duct tape with the blond hairs which was
allegedly found.

Sure wish we knew for certain if it was actually case related.
If not case related what a wild coincidence.

LE has sure been quiet about the duct tape so far as I know.
If it was not case related I would hope they would just announce it as
they did with the false reporting of camo clothing having been found.

I would think it was related.
Big question is why did they rip it off?

 

[shefner]

Just because LE has not said there was blood doesn't mean there wasn't any. We really don't know much.
I have been posting on this case since day 1. I truly feel like we are all spinning our wheels unless we get more information from the officials....or the family.

I have always said I "felt" like this was a planned attack by one or more persons who knew Holly, either well or less than such. I think the unsub is someone who is being protected by those who love him, likely family. I could be totally wrong, of course.

 

[docwho3]

I have wondered about the duct tape with the blond hairs which was
allegedly found.

Sure wish we knew for certain if it was actually case related.
If not case related what a wild coincidence.

LE has sure been quiet about the duct tape so far as I know.
If it was not case related I would hope they would just announce it as
they did with the false reporting of camo clothing having been found.

I would think it was related.
Big question is why did they rip it off?

This was in daylight so I too wondered why the stuff was found where it
was but I sort of think maybe he was preparing to transfer her to the main
vehicle (if he was using an ATV to transport up to that point but preparing
to load her into a truck or car once they reached the interstate where
it was parked and waiting.)

If an ATV was not used then why stop or start tossing stuff at that spot?
(That's not an argument but a real question.)
I mean supposing they were truly not in an ATV then I really do wonder
why stuff was found at that particular spot.
At first I wondered if it was where she was harmed further but then
that would make it a crime scene and I have not yet read that
the spot is considered a crime scene.

Even if stuff was tossed out as someone drove by then why that spot?

Perhaps understanding that might shed light on other things in the
case.

 

[wishuwerehere]

After doing some review/research I have found the following:

Mary Mills, age 34, has been missing since April 8, 2011 from Madison County, AL which borders TN.

Holly Bobo, age 20, has been missing since April 13, 2011 from Darden, TN.

Gail Palmgren, age 44, has been missing since April 30, 2011 from Signal Mountain, TN.

All three females are blond.

Also according to my reading of a map, it appears that Chattanooga, TN is the central location of the three above locales. Could these cases be related? And if so, could this perp be living in Chattanooga?

 

[~n/t~]

All I know is, how is it working out for these various LE agencies, keeping everything so secret? How is working out for Kyron? Or for Holly? I won't say Hailey Dunn, because I am not at all sure they have a clue in that case, at least in how to proceed. But at some point, maybe some other LEA's will look around and say, "hmmm, maybe we should start asking for help from the public sooner, start giving them something to work with."

or sadly when the perp takes another victim and is apprehended as was the case with Amber Dubois. I remember Amber's mom almost having to beg the FBI to take a look at her daughter's case again to see if there was anything missed.

I'm not sure what it is with some LE, they want certain cases handled secretly while others are very open to the public especially when it comes to evidence found. Surely by now they must know if it was Holly's blood or the perp's blood found in the driveway? Shouldn't they have the RSO's DNA in a database? If it is the missing RSO blood, then they would know it's him, right? I'm confused about that. If it's not his, look for him anyway but tell the public he's not a suspect in Holly's disappearance??

So frustrating.

 

[~n/t~]

After doing some review/research I have found the following:

Mary Mills, age 34, has been missing since April 8, 2011 from Madison County, AL which borders TN.

Holly Bobo, age 20, has been missing since April 13, 2011 from Darden, TN.

Gail Palmgren, age 44, has been missing since April 30, 2011 from Signal Mountain, TN.

All three females are blond.

Also according to my reading of a map, it appears that Chattanooga, TN is the central location of the three above locales. Could these cases be related? And if so, could this perp be living in Chattanooga?

I haven't followed those other cases and took a quick peek at what I could find. For Gail, it sounds like the husband has some very suspicious activities going on......taking custody of the kids, lost his job, etc. Again, just quickly looking at what I could find.

As for Mary, she disappeared without a trace and I could see a connection. Pretty blonde, not much out there about her disappearance?

http://northhuntsville.waff.com/news/news/family-searches-missing-woman/53165

AL AL - Mary Mills, 34, Madison County, 8 April 2011 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[~n/t~]

Would the family be told if it was Holly's blood and/or be privy to all other evidence found that may be connected to her case? I know if my child was missing, I'd want to know every detail and also ensure that I would keep pounding on LE to find her.

 

[BeanE]

The blood on the lunch box was mentioned by one and only one person - Joe Gomez, a radio show jock, not even local, but from Houston who appeared on Nancy Grace as one of her talking heads.

Joe has never written an article on Holly's case, and based on what he said, I doubt he's ever even read one.

My experience in following these cases has been that where one and only one person mentions something, and no other news outlet picks it up and reports it, it turns out later to have been false information.

It's just like any other rumor you see on the net. It comes from one person, and it ends up to be false, the vast majority of the time.

When I'm rating the credibility and reliability of case info, in addition to noting if it only comes from one source, I also consider whether or not the person or article states where they got the info. If they don't even state that, it further lowers the credibility and reliability of the info.

Joe didn't state where he got this info that no one else has ever mentioned.

I don't believe it.

 

[BeanE]

Would the family be told if it was Holly's blood and/or be privy to all other evidence found that may be connected to her case? I know if my child was missing, I'd want to know every detail and also ensure that I would keep pounding on LE to find her.

LE's not obligated to tell anyone anything. You can look in case after case, and you see families saying that LE is not giving them any info, or giving them very little.

I know Gabe Johnson's family, and LE gave them extremely little. When LE did, it was most often as I would assume it would be in all cases - where LE needs to ask questions about something. An example would be where LE finds an item that appears to belong to the victim, but they have no way to verify it (no name or pic or identifying mark on it such as you'd find with, e.g., a drivers license). They may show it to the family and ask them if they recognize it and other questions about it - when was the last time they saw the item, etc.

LE seems to have an obligation to tell the family if they have physical evidence that the person is not, or likely isn't, alive.

My understanding/opinion.

 

[Frogzilla]

Its not a debate about whether Holly is missing or not its about the TBI (not FBI) repeatedly issuing conflicting and contradictory information. And not just one or so but for four months. Things the family have said recently in interviews directly contradict things local LE has said for four months.

An example of this is where did LE get the idea that Holly was in fear for her life as she was being led into the woods. Clint never said that and in fact he said basically, I believe, they were just walking.

I know these kinds of posts are not very popular with a few people, but I came across these articles from April 16 and 19, and wanted to put some of the articles back into the discussion. <modsnip>. Maybe we could actually discuss reasons that information has not always been accurate in this case? Why the family is directly contradicting press releases? One piece of inaccurate info is forgivable, 4 months worth is a pattern.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/holly-bobo...ues-emerge-search-continues/story?id=13389409
http://www.newschannel5.com/story/14477180/day-7-of-search-for-holly-bobo-in-decatur-county
"What we believe, and I'll tell you he actually had an arm holding her and so we feel that she knew that she was in fear of her life so she was complying with his commands," he told a news conference. John Mehr, spokesman for the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation. - CB, the supposed eye witness, says he believes this is not true

Her brother, said Mehr, "had reasons to believe [the man] was not an attacker," and did not call 911 until he saw blood outside. - Bobo family said this is not true according to their last article/interview, CB never called 911 and blood was spotted when people were gathered on the driveway, according to HB father

The officer said that neither Bobo's brother nor her boyfriend were suspects. "We are confident of that," he said. - Later changed to nobody has been cleared

Helm (TBI spokesperson) said the crime lab is still analyzing blood found in a carport at the Bobo home. She said they believe it either belongs to Bobo or her abductor. - HB father says blood was found on the driveway.

Authorities said they believed they were on a trail that was still warm.
"Folks, this is getting good now. Things are happening fast," a state investigator told a crowd of volunteers at the makeshift staging ground in Parsons. - Just UGGGHHH, but cannot say any bad things about optimism!

And speaking of optimism, I want to show that I am not all doom and gloom. Here are some other quotes from the family spokesperson on April 19.

It's an especially difficult time for the Bobo family. A family spokesman said Holly has been especially close to her mother.
"Very rarely does she go shopping without her mother and I think her mother helps her pick out her clothes and just they just had a great relationship and that's what makes it really hard on the family because they were so close," Bromley said.
"I was just talking to her mom last night," he said, "and she shared with us she was voted on by her classmates most beautiful girl in her senior class and she's not only beautiful on the outside. Holly is beautiful on the inside."
Bromley said Bobo was a very caring person, so a career in nursing would be perfect.

 

[Frogzilla]

How do you keep a passenger on an ATV with you if they want to get off? It would be hard to keep a fit young woman on the ATV against her will, imo. You need both hands to steer and drive. So how do you keep her in compliance while you drive off into the woods?

Possibly something like this? http://www.utvguide.net/news/uploaded_images/PolarisRANGER-EV-3-774782.jpg

 

[docwho3]

Not being argumentative with you personally but I would like to use your
post to clarifiy my own position on this issue. I hope you won't mind.

The blood on the lunch box was mentioned by one and only
one person - Joe Gomez, a radio show jock, not even local, but from
Houston who appeared on Nancy Grace as one of her talking heads. . .

(Snipped for space)
Sure. I also have my doubts about any info that come from the NG show.
This is not the first websleuths case that I have been involved in
discussing where that show has gotten info wrong.

I don't have any problem with someone saying they doubt such a source.
I too doubt them but what I do have a problem with is someone saying
a report truly is false as if they have inside knowldge to make such a
statement. That is quite different than saying they disbelieve the report.
Making a declaration of fact is quite different than stating an opinion
of disbelief.

So I ask how they know such information is false.
On what basis can they declare it to be incorrect, not as an opinion but
as if it is fact based on their knowledge.

I linked my source when using the information and I know that when camo
clothes were falsely reported to have been found that news articles came
forth that debunked the rumor (citing LE as sources.)

So if they have similarly debunked this information then someone could
rightly say that LE or other MSM news article has debunked it and they
could cite or link their source.

But if no one (LE,or other MSM news article) has proven the info false the
most we should rightly do is to doubt the info and not declare it to be
false when in fact we do not know if it truly is false or true.

Blood on the lunchbox/bag is not even all that important to anyone's
theory so far as I know. I think if she was carrying something and was still
bleeding then it is possible for blood to be on that object but I don't
care one way or the other if blood was there or not.

Perhaps I will post in a separate post about what I think of the chances
of the info from the NG being correct or not in this particular instance.
For now I just wanted to clarify my position on this other aspect of
things.

 

[BeanE]

I didn't think anyone was claiming inside knowledge, but that's just my view.