That's the article I saw. I can't get the video in the article to load for some reason but I think the article is just a narrated account of a video.
Deceased/Not Found TN - Joseph 'Joe Clyde' Daniels, 5, autistic, Dickson, 3 April 2018 *Arrests*
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That's the article I saw. I can't get the video in the article to load for some reason but I think the article is just a narrated account of a video.
Does anyone happen to know when the preliminary hearing for the parents is supposed to be?
When I said that LE might have sensed that something was 'off' I didn't mean they found JD weird and his wife a schizophrenic. Someone who's schizophrenic and on meds should be fine.
What I meant was things like comparing the 911 tape to those made by people who were innocent vs those who were found guilty. Comparing their words and behavior to those known behaviors of innocent and guilty. Considering how they acted when confronted with the information that someone had driven down that road that night and saw something.
There is actually another piece of evidence that they may have been confronted with. It's been in the media that the grandfather says KD was telling people that "it was [the grandparents] fault"...what if she's said other things to people and those people went to LE with her words? Not everything has come out in the media, some things will be held back lest they be prejudicial in a trial, but sometimes people on here put up a link to a news story on FB and say "look at the comments by XYZ" and we're not allowed to discuss the content of those comments on the open forum, but those of us who saw them can't unsee them. So all I can say is that the grandfather's comment does suggest that KD does sometimes talk to people and say things and LE are going to want to know why she's saying those things to people at such a time. What if that leads to a confession?
We haven't heard in the media that the siblings of Joe have said anything, but that's not something that's likely to be reported in media, so they might have heard something that night that would give LE cause for concern.
The media says that JD confessed and said roughly where he drove with little Joe's body, but not a specific place. If only one of them was on that drive, maybe the other genuinely can't help with finding the body. I don't know the reasons why someone hid a body wouldn't tell as much as they could at this point. That little boy and his family deserve to at least have a proper funeral and burial.
LE, I believe, will wait for a search warrant before searching the home, but they are permitted to observe and see if maybe one particular room smells strongly of bleach or things like that, and the parents could be confronted with that.
There are definitely things that could lead to suspicion of the parents that are far more legitimate methods than the conjecture you have made.
In the video of JD and KD walking together outside the courthouse/jail, I thought he seemed to look over at her with a bit of caring in him as if he might have been asking her how she was? I can't really imagine him confessing on her behalf, but I can't rule it out.
Another thing I noticed was that JD said he was the one who got up to get the kids ready for school and 'noticed' little Joe was missing? Was that usual for them, or if it was just for that one day that he was getting the kids up, or if it was an outright lie to keep KD out of the narrative? Whatever the answer is could give insight into the dynamics of that household.
I said in the previous post that if KD is medicated properly for the schizophrenia and bipolar then she's about the same risk as any other person.
But if she's not medicated that could change things.
Also, this sighting outside the house. Little Joe isn't the only blonde-haired person in that household. And there were a number of knives taken away on the search warrant. Combine these things, the possibility of unmedicated schizophrenia, the blonde hair, and the knives, and that could add up to something different, but I would still think that JD would have to hide the body to protect KD. He's said he beat little Joe to death with his bare hands. What if the body doesn't back up his confession? Could that be a reason to confess but not assist with finding little Joe's remains?
I don't know how long forensics on those knives will take, but there's an outside chance, based on this line of questioning, that the forensics might lead to a change in the charges?
And, remember the video of the grandparents where the reporter says that carpet was lifted up by LE in the search, and the camera focused on an air vent or a drain? There were stains on that vent/drain and I had some concerns about the color of those stains.
But...if it was a knife as opposed to fists, I would have thought a lot of other items might be taken for blood spatter evidence? I don't know how that would work...they can't take walls that have blood spatter patterns but other objects and fabrics should catch some spatter.
A knife would suggest to me that it was KD, possibly off her meds. But JD knows she has schizophrenia and what it does to her. She would be more likely to be found criminally incompetent and go to a mental hospital than to jail, and the other two boys would lose both their parents if he falsely confesses, and he ought to know that if that happened that KD needs help, so even if he initially tried to cover for her it would be a big mistake to continue the lie once LE catch on that something happened in the house. People aren't always logical where emotions are concerned.
The warrant didn't say anything about LE taking clothing? I find that a curious thing if blood spatter is a possible issue...even if fabrics or sofa aren't taken and spatter analysis is done by photographic evidence, the clothing worn that night ought to be collected. Unless that was collected separately, so we might not be able to draw conclusions from the lack of mention of clothing on the warrant.
Thinking about it this way, I think there might be a stronger risk of KD being the perpetrator and JD covering for her out of guilt that he came upon the scene too late, he panicked and hid the body instead of calling 911 and getting help for KD. With JD having a temper it's not out of the question for him to be the perp, but given the timing and all these other things, there's also a strong case for KD being the greater risk that night.
It would be very sad, imho, if JD has covered for a schizophrenic episode in KD, he would have bought himself a ticket to jail when he didn't need to.
But if she's not medicated that could change things.
Also, this sighting outside the house. Little Joe isn't the only blonde-haired person in that household. And there were a number of knives taken away on the search warrant. Combine these things, the possibility of unmedicated schizophrenia, the blonde hair, and the knives, and that could add up to something different, but I would still think that JD would have to hide the body to protect KD. He's said he beat little Joe to death with his bare hands. What if the body doesn't back up his confession? Could that be a reason to confess but not assist with finding little Joe's remains?
I don't know how long forensics on those knives will take, but there's an outside chance, based on this line of questioning, that the forensics might lead to a change in the charges?
And, remember the video of the grandparents where the reporter says that carpet was lifted up by LE in the search, and the camera focused on an air vent or a drain? There were stains on that vent/drain and I had some concerns about the color of those stains.
But...if it was a knife as opposed to fists, I would have thought a lot of other items might be taken for blood spatter evidence? I don't know how that would work...they can't take walls that have blood spatter patterns but other objects and fabrics should catch some spatter.
A knife would suggest to me that it was KD, possibly off her meds. But JD knows she has schizophrenia and what it does to her. She would be more likely to be found criminally incompetent and go to a mental hospital than to jail, and the other two boys would lose both their parents if he falsely confesses, and he ought to know that if that happened that KD needs help, so even if he initially tried to cover for her it would be a big mistake to continue the lie once LE catch on that something happened in the house. People aren't always logical where emotions are concerned.
The warrant didn't say anything about LE taking clothing? I find that a curious thing if blood spatter is a possible issue...even if fabrics or sofa aren't taken and spatter analysis is done by photographic evidence, the clothing worn that night ought to be collected. Unless that was collected separately, so we might not be able to draw conclusions from the lack of mention of clothing on the warrant.
Thinking about it this way, I think there might be a stronger risk of KD being the perpetrator and JD covering for her out of guilt that he came upon the scene too late, he panicked and hid the body instead of calling 911 and getting help for KD. With JD having a temper it's not out of the question for him to be the perp, but given the timing and all these other things, there's also a strong case for KD being the greater risk that night.
It would be very sad, imho, if JD has covered for a schizophrenic episode in KD, he would have bought himself a ticket to jail when he didn't need to.
Gussified
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@ bdm11480 & @ Amonet
I agree with much of what has been said, but would add that, in any missing child case, LE should always rule out the possibility of foul play, and specifically the parents involvement in the disappearance. Seems like, in more cases than not, when a young child goes missing, especially in the middle of the night, someone close to them is responsible. Teenagers sometimes run away, and of course there are the rare well-known examples like Polly Class and Elizabeth Smart.
But IMO it would be irresponsible for LE to not investigate the possibility that the parents, or others close to the child, could be responsible for the disappearance. Rush to judgement? No. They continued to investigate the possibility that Baby Joe wandered off, as reported by the parents. But they also HAD TO investigate the possibility that he had been murdered in the home. IMO.
I agree with much of what has been said, but would add that, in any missing child case, LE should always rule out the possibility of foul play, and specifically the parents involvement in the disappearance. Seems like, in more cases than not, when a young child goes missing, especially in the middle of the night, someone close to them is responsible. Teenagers sometimes run away, and of course there are the rare well-known examples like Polly Class and Elizabeth Smart.
But IMO it would be irresponsible for LE to not investigate the possibility that the parents, or others close to the child, could be responsible for the disappearance. Rush to judgement? No. They continued to investigate the possibility that Baby Joe wandered off, as reported by the parents. But they also HAD TO investigate the possibility that he had been murdered in the home. IMO.
Gussified
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In the 911 call he did say his wife would know better when the operator asked him what Joe was wearing so it may have been routine for her to put them to bed and him to get them up.
As far as the Grandfathers claim that she tried to blame them I still believe that could be indicative of an investigative tactic. As far as a search warrant of the house there was no need for one so long as the parents voluntarily let them in the house. In the beginning the parents were cooperative and searching the home is just standard proceedure in searching for the missing boy. Any evidence gathered would still be admissable so they did not need to get a confession so they could acquire a warrant to search the home. I think more than likely what they really needed a warrant for was to search their phones and obtain a forensic anaylisis of their vehicles.
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Spellbound
falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus
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don’t you think she will be? I do ... at the very least she was an accessory to murder since she was present and knew at the time he supposedly beat the boy and she knew he hid the body. Did she go along to dispose of their son ?
She is just as guilty, if the reports we have heard so far are accurate. I don’t know what they may be waiting for to charge her, though.
JMO
dyannaON
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I do worry about the he/she did it if this goes to trial. I hate those cases. I hate that we have to have those cases. [emoji20]
I hope they upgrade her charges. Isnt there some law that if your there you just as responsible? If spellbound and I went to rob someone but I just drove wouldnt I be charged as well? Or am I confused. Urgh where is Joe??!!! ☹️
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I hope they upgrade her charges. Isnt there some law that if your there you just as responsible? If spellbound and I went to rob someone but I just drove wouldnt I be charged as well? Or am I confused. Urgh where is Joe??!!! ☹️
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cybervampira
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I think it depends on the state you live in. In Alabama if one is involved in a violent felony like robbery and someone dies as a result of it, one can be charged with murder, even as getaway driver who wasnt involved in the murder. But: This is not a case where two people go out to commit a robbery. The mother could argue she was taking a bath while it happened. Or it happened in the same room and she couldnt interfere because husband shoved her or she was afraid of him. Or she could say she didnt interfere because she was high on drugs or she thought he didnt hit him so bad (I think even that wouldnt classify as murder). I guess theyd need more evidence for a felony murder charge here.
Yes, they can voluntarily agree to a house search, but that risks being thrown out of evidence. It's a lot safer when it comes to trial to have a warrant. The warrant says that a judge has agreed with the necessity of this line of inquiry, so that really assists in arguing against a defense atty who wants to present an argument along the lines of biased LE who may be tricking the parents into agreeing to a search.
italianangel2411
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BUMP
I hope baby Joe's body is found
I hope baby Joe's body is found
We all want to know where little Joe is but if they don't find his body before June 1st or have any forensic evidence to back the confession that he was killed in that house then there may not even be a trial.
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Spellbound
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First, I promise I will never rob anyone, ever . But I will be your cohort for legal activities if needed.
if you knew I was robbing, yes, you could also be charged. But if you could prove you were just my driver to take ke somewhere and you hd no idea what I was doing, you might not be. I think it depends on your level of knowledge of the crime. I know I’m not explaining very well. :blushing:
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dilemma of prosecuting this case without a body. my summrization of article:
https://www.newschannel5.com/news/the-dilemma-of-prosecution-joe-clyde-daniels-case-without-a-body
Father confessed, but no body has been found. The confession may not be enough.
Mother admits to knowing the child had been beaten, and taken from the nome to be hidden.
"Certainly it's a more difficult case if they have nothing to back up the confession," said attorney Jim Todd, who's closely followed the case.
He said there certainly could be other evidence, perhaps blood from the scene, cadaver dogs hitting on a scent or even witness testimony potentially from the child's mother.
"There's a good chance, and this is a guess, the wife is charged as a leverage point on her to get her to roll," said Todd.
But Daniel’s father believes he was coerced into a confession. What if he recants?
if the case were to go to trial (prelim hearing June 1) , jury will determine if the confession was coerced.
Spellbound
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How the community is coping:
https://www.tennessean.com/story/ne...ing-dicksons-prolonged-hurt-normal/521452002/
Dr. Matthew Hardy, regional vice president for Centerstone spoke recently about how an event like this...affects people differently and these are normal reactions to an incredibly traumatic and abnormal event.
Hardy was talking at an hastily organized event Thursday night at the Dickson County YMCA to help those who continue to struggle with Daniels death.
Some in the audience talked about watching the news so much more and feeling that their desire for updates was out of hand. Audience members also talked about taking him on like hes our child.
https://www.tennessean.com/story/ne...ing-dicksons-prolonged-hurt-normal/521452002/
Dr. Matthew Hardy, regional vice president for Centerstone spoke recently about how an event like this...affects people differently and these are normal reactions to an incredibly traumatic and abnormal event.
Hardy was talking at an hastily organized event Thursday night at the Dickson County YMCA to help those who continue to struggle with Daniels death.
Some in the audience talked about watching the news so much more and feeling that their desire for updates was out of hand. Audience members also talked about taking him on like hes our child.
Well, yes that is true. Of course the parents cooperation might have changed when stuff started being taken from the house and pieces of carpets and walls started being cut out or when the authorities said hey we need take your phones and cars as evidence now...
Even so whatever they would have found would need to go through forensic analysis and I'm pretty there wasn't enough time prior to the arrests for anything to come back from the lab. There is only 8 weeks between Joe's dissapearance and the June 1st preliminary hearing. I'd be curious to find out if THATS even enough time for the forensics to come back. I believe that this case is hinging on finding his body I really do.
I'm going do a little research on turn around times by state. Theres probably some information available somewhere.
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Even so whatever they would have found would need to go through forensic analysis and I'm pretty there wasn't enough time prior to the arrests for anything to come back from the lab. There is only 8 weeks between Joe's dissapearance and the June 1st preliminary hearing. I'd be curious to find out if THATS even enough time for the forensics to come back. I believe that this case is hinging on finding his body I really do.
I'm going do a little research on turn around times by state. Theres probably some information available somewhere.
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Even if she rolls can they make her testify in court? They are married.
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hsprinkel
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In my opinion, when she said it the grandparents fault, i think she meant on how they raised their son or other such actions related to the marriage how they raised their kids or whatever grandparents say to parents about the dealing with family stuff.
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