Found Safe TN - Mary Catherine Elizabeth Thomas, 15, Maury County, 13 March 2017 #11

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
Exactly. He didn't teach science (and certainly not criminal forensic science!) in the traditional sense of the word. It was more of a votech thing for students interested in health related fields.

In the school where I worked, which has curriculum similar to the one described at Tad's school which uses the word "criminal," they did mock crimes and investigations every week.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I personally don't feel that I have enough background info to pounce all over the school for how they handled things. Others disagree with me, and that's fine. I'm just not sure we know the full story here.

JMO

People seem to like to get upset and place blame with very little evidence. The school has pretty much admitted that mistakes were made, and they are taking steps to correct the issues. But even with the mistakes, they still were able to remove TC from his position within two weeks. People don't seem to be able to comprehend that there is a process they must go through to remove a teacher, and that many people need to be consulted before taking a serious action like that.

Regardless, even if the school had removed TC from his position sooner, it wouldn't have prevented this situation.
 
It was science (criminal) forensics. I shared links to the curriculum docs for the school earlier in the thread.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The general curriculum should be easy enough to find. If you go to the school's website , you should be able to sleuth from there to find out what set of books may be used, who they order from. Most things like this are open to public to examine example- taxpayers in that area may want to see what is being offered to their children​. I can see my what books my own child uses, what the teachers manual looks like for that course and such.
These types of elective style classes are usually very very basic and nothing groundbreaking at all.

Forensics in High school is usually the debate team. Nothing to do with dead bodies.


Not to be confused with "Forensic medicine"

Google search for "forensic definition"

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/forensic

This was scientific or criminal forensics which is a science elective in many high schools. The link to the curriculum for Tad's school was shared earlier in the threads.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

often it is a debate society related course:
http://www.ihsfa.org/

But in this case it is likely science based criminal forensics. These practical science classes designed to get kids more interested in science than the more abstract physics, chem and bio high school science courses:
http://www.forsyth.k12.ga.us/cms/li.../Miller_Forensic Science Syllabus 2013-14.pdf

In any case the qualifications vary immensely. A simple degree in education and taking an online course would likely qualify a teacher to teach it in some places.

Yes, he qualified for a career tech position in the health sciences through the TN Dept of Ed. The link to his certificate and that info is in the discussions earlier but can be searched via the Dept of Ed too.:)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I stand corrected, thanks for this. Now I am in the same mindset in this facet of the story, as it puts an interesting, yet disturbing twist into the case. Something to add to my already occurring nightmares about this.

Bess, Thanks.
Looking at that he did not need specialized degree, grad degree or any experience in the field. it is simply a certification able to be done wih an online course.

The main impetus for this type of course for high school students is "practical science" as a way have some science education besides theoretical science. I applaud the idea of it to get students interested in the practicality of science, a sexy hook, the idea of scoientific inquiry on a topic. But it appears considerably less rigorous than the average Chem, Bio or Physics class.

I think all of us know that while there are a small number of super qualified and super dedicated STEM teachers in the public school systems, that overall STEM public school teachers are less likely to be highly educated or achiever in their field compared to other public school educators. A person who wants to go into public education with a sociology, English lit or french language, degree from a top university is still entering a competative job environment, whereas there is a dirth of people with STEM degrees competing for high school jobs.

My sister had an undergrad in fine arts and grad degree in education from a very good university and was in a very competitive glut of teachers in the public schools where she lived. She got a very basic certification to teach basic biology and her situation reversed.

My point is the kidnapper having taught this High School forensics course does not imply a serious or even practical knowledge of the field or much in preparing for this crime or evading capture, The fact that his computer history was not properly concealed, the fact he was sporting his goatee two days and hundred of miles later, the fact that he went to a walmart show me that.

For sure, there are 7 educators in my family including me. While this is the typical path to career tech certification, it's not the equivalent to education degrees that I and others possess.

Like many electives, the teacher would be responsible for educating themselves on the specific niche of forensics. I haven't heard any staff speak to how devoted he was to lesson prep/planning which might suggest how well he would know the subject.

I know when I taught electives, I read and prepped extensively. But we don't have any indication what he was like professionally as a teacher.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm not sure of the extent of his medical training. He went back to college later, IIRC. He was in the medical field and I'm not sure of the extent of his science classes in college.

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk


Thanks to everyone who replied about my question on that forensics course. I had never heard of it being taught in high school like that.
 
http://www.crimeonline.com/2017/03/...der-massages-holding-hands-special-treatment/

The pair were also reportedly caught holding hands on several occasions. Even more shocking, a student reported seeing Elizabeth fast asleep on a bed that Cummins had in his classroom. He apparently had a hospital bed in his room for teaching purposes, but allowed Elizabeth the privilege of sleeping on the bed, alone in the room.

Question, this link... it is not Main Stream Media, is it? I am a bit perplexed... Is it MSM?

IMOO.
 
It may not have been heart shaped but he was letting ET sleep on it. I'm sure her presence on the bed was not part of the curriculum.

No. I'm sure a lot of the loosey-goosey things TC allowed in his classroom weren't part of the curriculum. He seems to me like a teacher who wanted to " be friends" with his students, rather than be a figure of authority, and I think the kids flocked to his classroom because he was a push-over. The school should have put a stop to his classroom being used as a "hangout" long before all this happened.

JMO
 
The one thing I absolutely fault the school for is not informing ET's father immediately that they were investigating TC and why. It took them a week. That is inexcusable, IMHO.
:cow:
 
The one thing I absolutely fault the school for is not informing ET's father immediately that they were investigating TC and why. It took them a week. That is inexcusable, IMHO.
:cow:

Maybe. Or maybe they had a good reason to investigate this before they informed the parent. We really don't know what anyone interviewed told the investigators.

JMO
 
My husband had to take a class to learn how best to help his father get out of bed and into a wheel chair. There are things to learn I'm sure but my understanding CPR in a bed is not one of them.

ETA - This was training my husband how not to hurt himself among other things.

The bed wasn't used to teach CPR. I think there's a few things that need to be cleared up. This was a Health Science teacher, not a CPR teacher and he taught more to the students than simply CPR. Health Science, the way they had it set up at Culleoka, was to prepare students who wanted to further their education in the field of Health Science. What does that mean? What kind of jobs? Those jobs would be Nurses, Paramedics, Phlebotomists, Certified Nursing Assistants, and other jobs within the health care related field like maybe even a Doctor, or Surgeon, or Anaesthesiologist or Respiratory Therapy, Physical Therapy or Occupational Rehab. This program he was was part of in the Vocational Technical side of the school was for Health Sciences, and the appropriate subsections of Health Science. The class he was teaching in which ET met him was a Forensics class, science based which included things like how to follow proper protocol when obtaining evidence, marking evidence, testing of evidence, etc. It may have even included a little bit about entymology (study of bugs) and how it relates to a crime scene. Usually classes like this are taught in modular form, rather than with a book and it's done in projects rather than tests, which puts the skills to use in solving mock crimes. Now along with the Forensics class he taught classes that prepare people for work within the health care industry and it's completely natural to have a bed in the class so you can teach how to make the beds with flat sheets, or how to transport patients between a bed and a wheelchair, lifting, positioning, how to change a bed with a patient still in the bed, how to work the mechanisms of the bed, patient transportation in the bed, how to do vitals on a patient in a bed, etc. He most likely had stethoscopes, sphygmomanometers, he might have even had insulin syringes and saline bottles (some high schools will teach how to give shots and how to draw up solutions out of a bottle), and none of these things are considered odd That he let a student sleep in the bed occasionally? That might give me pause if I were an admin, but then again it might not if the door is open, other students are milling around and the student sleeping isn't feeling well or is having housing issues, but I would most likely support the teacher to send the student to the nurses office just as a cya move.
Another thing bandied about is the certification. Every state, not just TN, but every state has alternative methods of certification. Every one. All of them. So at any given time you will have people within the system that have not had the traditional BS in Ed, student teaching certification. In one school we have a retired Judge teaching Civics and Constitutional Law, trust me he's more than qualified to teach the material. And qualifications aside, TC's lack of the traditional method of receiving his certification was no omen for the school that he would later become obsessed with a female child in his class and abduct her.
So does the school have culpability in this? Yes. If it were me, once the child is safely back in the home I'd hit them with a Federal suit, throw it all against the wall and let the Judge figure out what he wants to find them guilty of. I go after every teacher in that school who knew there were inappropriate actions going on and did nothing while they called a child a homewrecker. I go after the Principal, the Superintendent and heck why not the State Board as well who allowed him to continue in that school after he was warned and continued his relationship with this child. I'd go after their pensions, their homes and any other assets they had personally and make sure that they also had to publicly flog themselves in the court of public opinion by writing an op ed piece about how they failed the community. I might stop short of tar and feathering, but I then again I might not. But in so much as allowing him to teach in that school, I feel the school has no blame in hiring him.
 
the one thing i absolutely fault the school for is not informing et's father immediately that they were investigating tc and why. It took them a week. That is inexcusable, imho.
:cow:
bingo
 
Maybe. Or maybe they had a good reason to investigate this before they informed the parent. We really don't know what anyone interviewed told the investigators.

JMO

There is no "good reason" to keep something like this from the parent, PERIOD! I know if my child was involved in something like this I would want to be the first to know and should be!
 
The one thing I absolutely fault the school for is not informing ET's father immediately that they were investigating TC and why. It took them a week. That is inexcusable, IMHO.
:cow:

That's not just fault, that's legally reprehensible. Slam dunk case for any attorney to seek damages on that one. They were required to notify her legal guardian, the police (because there were criminal issues that are handled differently than how the school deals with them) and the State Board of Ed as well as the Superintendent. If all parties were not notified, they were legally wrong, no if's and or buts. This isn't opinion and more than being inexcusable, it led to the further injury of this child.
 
Maybe. Or maybe they had a good reason to investigate this before they informed the parent. We really don't know what anyone interviewed told the investigators.

JMO

As a minor, her parents or guardians should have been informed. The school apparently tried to sweep the incident under the rug until LE stepped in and alerted her father.
 
Quote Originally Posted by EA18G View Post
Someone posted early on that it is actually a debate class.
with a hospital bed in it?

a student reported seeing Elizabeth fast asleep on a bed that Cummins had in his classroom. He apparently had a hospital bed in his room for teaching purposes, but allowed Elizabeth the privilege of sleeping on the bed, alone in the room.

http://www.crimeonline.com/2017/03/2...ial-treatment/
I guess I ask why is a high school student sleeping in school on a school day?
I know kindergartners can get nap time but that is not right, and allowing a student to do it is not right, but likely it was part of the grooming,
 
Maybe. Or maybe they had a good reason to investigate this before they informed the parent. We really don't know what anyone interviewed told the investigators.

JMO
But that is where we differ. If they did, they can't investigate they have to call child protective services by law.

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
 
*roll and scroll* *roll and scroll*
 
IN RETAIL WE ALL KNOW if a coworker has their bf or husbands there (fairly large store). Our radars quickly go up. No one at the school noticed his overreaching towards the kids?!
 
I guess I ask why is a high school student sleeping in school on a school day?
I know kindergartners can get nap time but that is not right, and allowing a student to do it is not right, but it was part of the grooming,
It was a while before she had a bed at home and was sleeping on the couch. Maybe she wasn't sleeping well.

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
 
That's not just fault, that's legally reprehensible. Slam dunk case for any attorney to seek damages on that one. They were required to notify her legal guardian, the police (because there were criminal issues that are handled differently than how the school deals with them) and the State Board of Ed as well as the Superintendent. If all parties were not notified, they were legally wrong, no if's and or buts. This isn't opinion and more than being inexcusable, it led to the further injury of this child.

Thank you. Can we put it to rest that THE SCHOOL FAILED THIS CHILD!?!?
 
Question, this link... it is not Main Stream Media, is it? I am a bit perplexed... Is it MSM?

IMOO.

Yes, And beyond being MSM it's also a podcast. It's a recorded interview with the family attorney so you get to hear in his own words what exactly happened, it's not Nancy Grace opinion, it's a podcast interview with pieces of it written in transcript from the podcast, both of which you can read and hear at that link.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
146
Guests online
1,000
Total visitors
1,146

Forum statistics

Threads
602,188
Messages
18,136,331
Members
231,263
Latest member
RoseHase
Back
Top