Found Safe TN - Mary Catherine Elizabeth Thomas, 15, Maury County, 13 March 2017 #2

[stormymama]

Yes it does matter. NO one is minimizing E's victimization. (well almost no one.),
It matters a great deal if she is willing or unwilling! If she is a runaway she will NOT want to be found, and that will make them harder to find. The context/back story of her kidnapping matters a great deal actually!

There are people minimizing it on this thread. ET is a victim. Point taken about it mattering and I agree, but my point is none of the background makes her less of a victim and TC less of a predator.

 

[stormymama]

Well, except for accidentally tripping them, that is what a school administrator is supposed to do!!!!!!!!

Yet that didn't happen. 😔
I was really being facetious. I'm having a hard time with how badly people in authority have failed her.

 

[Deleted member 155000]

There's a good reason I'm not any sort of authority figure in a school system because if I found out one of my teachers had innocently pecked a student on the lips, I would innocently escort his/her out of the building and into a squad car, possibly tripping him several times along the way.

The problem is students do sometimes make false reports to get back at a teacher for being disciplined or given a low grade etc. So teachers can't immediately be assumed guilty, without evidence, any more than anyone else in America can.

HOWEVER, in school districts where I have had experience, most immediately suspend an accused teacher with pay until an investigation can be completed. They also often turn the charges over to the police at this time.

I can think of specific cases, right off the top of my head, that have gone both ways. Students in one scenario confessed to spreading a rumor about a teacher they very much liked as a misguided practical joke in one instance. Jealous students admitted to lying in others. But also, in several cases, the investigation turned up questionable behavior that prompted the district to fire the teacher. In a few cases, prosecutors were able to uncover unarguable evidence and criminally convicted them as well.


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[Safeguard]

There are people minimizing it on this thread. ET is a victim. Point taken about it mattering and I agree, but my point is none of the background makes her less of a victim and TC less of a predator.

Perhaps you might have considered quoting/replying to, the post(s) you found offensive? That way you avoid generalizing all of us who are very concerned that E will make every effort not to be found, and are not MONSTERS for discussing HER motivation to avoid being found.

 

[MsMtOlympus]

Thoughts on:

(1) $4500 title loan: This is merely the money we know about. I highly doubt with the presumed amount of planning on TC's part that this is the sole amount of funds that they're travelling with. At 50 years old, TC would know that even with an off-the-grid lifestyle, $4500 wouldn't be sufficient even in the short-term.

(2) Instagram posts: I keep looking at his posts - the giant tooth picture posted 1W ago (or thereabouts as we know they've been gone for nine days as of today) is hashtagged #dentistonmonday. I'm wondering if this was the Monday that he picked her up and if so, if the hashtag was code to her regarding the plan or was it the complete opposite? Like an alibi for why he'd have to leave the house on what was reported as a day off from school?
Also, the hastag #ohtheplaces (seen on a pic of Costa Rica) is an obvious reference to "Oh the Places You'll Go", the Dr. Seuss book. IMO, he made promises to ET that they could life a happily-ever-after life together as a married couple in a warm, tropical setting (ET would of course, not know the reality of why the marriage could never be legal). And that sure, maybe it would be tough at first for them as they'd have to rough it a bit before getting to their matrimonial paradise but that in the end, it would all be worth it as they'd be together forever in a beautiful setting and far away from her abusive past.

In other words, he manipulated her with these far-fetched promises and what's even worse, I think he actually believes in this fantasy scenario as well.

 

[stormymama]

The problem is students do sometimes make false reports to get back at a teacher for being disciplined or given a low grade etc. So teachers can't immediately be assumed guilty, without evidence, any more than anyone else in America can.

HOWEVER, in school districts where I have had experience, most immediately suspend an accused teacher with pay until an investigation can be completed. They also often turn the charges over to the police at this time.

I can think of specific cases, right off the top of my head, that have gone both ways. Students in one scenario confessed to spreading a rumor about a teacher they very much liked as a misguided practical joke in one instance. Jealous students admitted to lying in others. But also, in several cases, the investigation turned up questionable behavior that prompted the district to fire the teacher. In a few cases, prosecutors were able to uncover unarguable evidence and criminally convicted them as well.


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Oh I understand all that. I was really being facetious about the way the school handled the kissing thing.

 

[LadyBunny]

Thoughts on:

(1) $4500 title loan: This is merely the money we know about. I highly doubt with the presumed amount of planning on TC's part that this is the sole amount of funds that they're travelling with. At 50 years old, TC would know that even with an off-the-grid lifestyle, $4500 wouldn't be sufficient even in the short-term.

(2) Instagram posts: I keep looking at his posts - the giant tooth picture posted 1W ago (or thereabouts as we know they've been gone for nine days as of today) is hashtagged #dentistonmonday. I'm wondering if this was the Monday that he picked her up and if so, if the hashtag was code to her regarding the plan or was it the complete opposite? Like an alibi for why he'd have to leave the house on what was reported as a day off from school?
Also, the hastag #ohtheplaces (seen on a pic of Costa Rica) is an obvious reference to "Oh the Places You'll Go", the Dr. Seuss book. IMO, he made promises to ET that they could life a happily-ever-after life together as a married couple in a warm, tropical setting (ET would of course, not know the reality of why the marriage could never be legal). And that sure, maybe it would be tough at first for them as they'd have to rough it a bit before getting to their matrimonial paradise but that in the end, it would all be worth it as they'd be together forever in a beautiful setting and far away from her abusive past.

In other words, he manipulated her with these far-fetched promises and what's even worse, I think he actually believes in this fantasy scenario as well.

I agree that they probably have more than $4500. And who knows how much money ET saved while working that she could have added to their fund.

 

[gitana1]

Yes! I think you hit it on the head. I strongly suspect this is not the first time TC has abused his position and I think that people in the community must be very afraid that the 15 year old may not be the only victim. He has a history of overstepping boundaries, fabricating and lying (the FBI CIA employment and possibly black belt stuff), and his social media posts/behavior is immature and would appeal to a much younger population, not to mention his copious posts on religion, which I suspect he used as a smokescreen for his questionable behavior and a way to lure people into trusting him. I'm worried that is may be only the tip of the iceburg and that the school and community may learn that they have been living with a predatative monster in their midst. Makes me angry that he was not more closely monitored by his superiors.

Very astute post. Pointing out his immaturity and religion shield- he does fit the profile of a serious and long-time sex predator/molester. Not a dude who had a sudden mid-life psychotic episode.

Yes it does matter. NO one is minimizing E's victimization. (well almost no one.),
It matters a great deal if she is willing or unwilling! If she is a runaway she will NOT want to be found, and that will make them harder to find. The context/back story of her kidnapping matters a great deal actually!

I don't know. I jumped into the thread and saw some major minimization going on. Trying to excuse his behavior as possibly being motivated by heroism? Calling them "two crazy kids" as if they are on equal footing, just a couple of impetuous teens who ran off to elope across state lines?


This is a child who was quite sheltered for most of her life, so she's even less worldly than kids her age, she comes from apparently a dysfunctional home life and she appears to have been subjected to bullying. She's very vulnerable and the perfect target for a predator like this monster. She's not some crazy kid running off with another crazy kid.


She is in grave danger with this man. The backstory mattered in the first few hours. It doesn't now. Everyone has to approach this case as if she continues to be with him willingly and is helping the two of them escape detection, and as if she is desperate to be rescued. Both scenarios are plausible and nothing about the backstory is going to confirm things one way or the other.


At this point my guess is she bought into a fantasy but had reservations even as she fled. I do believe she said something about calling the police if she wasn't back by 6. I think she's been conflicted. She had confirmation set for last weekend and kept pestering her brother to be there. She was excited for that.


Kids that age, especially sheltered ones, can have a hard time understanding the difference between reality and fantasy and can have a hard time understanding consequences.


I bet she started to regret her actions pretty quickly. I also think that if she's still alive she is scared. But she may still act to help him avoid detection by keeping quiet, not running and staying hidden. Even if she wants to go home.


It has to be assumed that she is helping him to avoid them being caught. And that she may both want to come home and fears being in trouble.


Minimizing the disgusting criminal behavior of this man doesn't help the case. In fact, it could hurt. On outside sites like in comments' sections in news articles, I have seen repeated comments about how he shouldn't be treated like a criminal. He did nothing wrong because she is a willing partner in this. And these comments are from men AND women!

 

[stormymama]

Perhaps you might have considered quoting the post(s) you found offensive? That way you avoid generalizing all of us who are very concerned that E will make every effort not to be found and are not MONSTERS for discussing HER motivation to avoid being found.

I think you are miunderstanding me. I apologize for not being more clear. Generalizing everyone wasn't my intention at all and I was merely pointing out, reminding, that ET is a victim, no matter what the circumstances, as there is a lot of victim blaming that comes along with these kinds of cases. (Plus I have no idea how to quote multiple posts on my phone.)

We absolutely SHOULD be talking about how this all went down. Her "willingness" or "consent" does not mean she is not a victim is all I meant really.

 

[JerseyGirl]

Here are some of the pics from their Instagram, since it is posted to a MSM article I assume we can post them here:

Elizabeth changed her Instagram biography before she vanished to describe herself as a 'wife'. She also added a ring emoji to the description

Elizabeth posted this image on Instagram in the days before she disappeared, writing simply beside it: 'Good morning'

Elizabeth referred to a 'mission' before disappearing on March 13. Police believe she was groomed by Cummins who she has known for more than two years

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4334902/Amber-Alert-teen-Elizabeth-Thomas-called-wife.html

 

[Rosewater20]

I hope they find them and he gets locked up. He preyed on a very vulnerable young girl who was battling very bad self esteem issues and had other issues growing up . He obviously is a hypocrite judging by his Instagram. . Do not get me wrong but for a man who says he is a' Jesus freak'..a couple of his posts are questionable . Maybe a mid life crisis coupled with what I consider disgusting'perversions. ' has culminated in this . It is also a disgrace that he was allowed to go back to school after the kissing incident. It is outrageous. I feel so annoyed with those saying that in the old days or in other countries young girls can marry. Yuck! Sorry but there are laws in place to stop that in this country for very good reasons. No reason a creepy 50 year old should be running off or kissing with a 15 year old. I bet when she is older she will see him for the creep/peodophile he is. Sorry for typos. He cared more about his......and his sick desires than his wife,children and grandchildren. If I was his wife I would have everything he left behind in a trash bag. Sorry to go on .

 

[BloodshotEye]

Purchase of a old vehicle for short term use: I'm fixated on this one. :face palm:... I'm imagining a scenario, where CT lines up a purchase of some crap car. And CT might be able to turn on his 'warrior poet-son-of-the-lord' persona, and convince the owner that he will immediately take the car to the DMV, and turn in the plates. Thereby, saving the owner of the time and aggravation. In possibly a rural community, someone might be very trusting, and not want to be bothered with this detail.
A crazy scenario?

 

[JerseyGirl]

http://heavy.com/news/2017/03/eliza...ok-wife-social-media-missing-tennessee-photos

 

[stormymama]

Very astute post. Pointing out his immaturity and religion shield- he does fit the profile of a serious and long-time sex predator/molester. Not a dude who had a sudden mid-life psychotic episode.




I don't know. I jumped into the thread and saw some major minimization going on. Trying to excuse his behavior as possibly being motivated by heroism? Calling them "two crazy kids" as if they are on equal footing, just a couple of impetuous teens who ran off to elope across state lines?


This is a child who was quite sheltered for most of her life, so she's even less worldly than kids her age, she comes from apparently a dysfunctional home life and she appears to have been subjected to bullying. She's very vulnerable and the perfect target for a predator like this monster. She's not some crazy kid running off with another crazy kid.


She is in grave danger with this man. The backstory mattered in the first few hours. It doesn't now. Everyone has to approach this case as if she continues to be with him willingly and is helping the two of them escape detection, and as if she is desperate to be rescued. Both scenarios are plausible and nothing about the backstory is going to confirm things one way or the other.


At this point my guess is she bought into a fantasy but had reservations even as she fled. I do believe she said something about calling the police if she wasn't back by 6. I think she's been conflicted. She had confirmation set for last weekend and kept pestering her brother to be there. She was excited for that.


Kids that age, especially sheltered ones, can have a hard time understanding the difference between reality and fantasy and can have a hard time understanding consequences.


I bet she started to regret her actions pretty quickly. I also think that if she's still alive she is scared. But she may still act to help him avoid detection by keeping quiet, not running and staying hidden. Even if she wants to go home.


It has to be assumed that she is helping him to avoid them being caught. And that she may both want to come home and fears being in trouble.


Minimizing the disgusting criminal behavior of this man doesn't help the case. In fact, it could hurt. On outside sites like in comments' sections in news articles, I have seen repeated comments about how he shouldn't be treated like a criminal. He did nothing wrong because she is a willing partner in this. And these comments are from men AND women!

This 100%

 

[thorpedo]

A little boat excursion to Florida or the Gulf: Someone up there, mentioned a cruise (I apologize, I can't find your post). Very interesting thought. I am snooping around, seeing if there are little 'excursions' for tourists, that leave from New Orleans, to say... Mexico or wherever.

There are cruises that leave out of New Orleans for Mexico and the Caribbean. I don't recall having to provide anything other than my ticket to board the ship. When you return to the ship from any excursion and upon disembarking the ship back in the US you have to provide US ID or passport.

I believe if both parents aren't travelling with a minor or the minor is travelling with an adult who is not their parent or guardian, the absent parent has to provide a sworn statement that they are allowing the child to travel out of the country with the other parent or adult. Something like that. But if they have fake documents, who knows? Seriously, getting on those ships is busy, crowded and they are moving people a long as quickly as possible.

 

[LadyBunny]

Purchase of a old vehicle for short term use: I'm fixated on this one. :face palm:... I'm imagining a scenario, where CT lines up a purchase of some crap car. And CT might be able to turn on his 'warrior poet-son-of-the-lord' persona, and convince the owner that he will immediately take the car to the DMV, and turn in the plates. Thereby, saving the owner of the time and aggravation. In possibly a rural community, someone might be very trusting, and not want to be bothered with this detail.
A crazy scenario?

Not too crazy. I left my tag on the car I sold to my mother. And one older couple I bought a car from left it on so I could make it home with no issues. But it's very rare.

I don't doubt that he could have used his charm to convince them to leave the tag on. So it's a possible scenario.

 

[Kapua]

Confusion about the student or students, who reported the contact: This may be of interest to some, who noticed an inconsistency in the report of 'the student'. Sometimes, the news referred to this as a 'he', sometimes a 'she'. In yet another article I read, it seemed as though there were 3 different students. I began to be concerned about how much of it was accurate. This link kind of clears that up.
There was one student who witnessed the contact, and told another student....

http://fox6now.com/2017/03/22/missing-tennessee-student-from-kissing-allegation-to-manhunt/

Thanks for this link! As someone posted a few pages back, it is truly pathetic that a 12-year-old student took immediate action and the adults completely dragged their feet. I remain outraged that her father was not informed sooner (immediately) and that TC was not suspended without pay while the school and LE were investigating. But that is water under the bridge now. I was thinking today of the two escaped convicts (Richard Matt and David Sweat, NY, 2015) who hid out in the woods, breaking into a cabin. They came to mind because they were able to evade a huge manhunt for three weeks. I don't want to be negative, but it may be quite some time before someone spots these two.

 

[Safeguard]

Very astute post. Pointing out his immaturity and religion shield- he does fit the profile of a serious and long-time sex predator/molester. Not a dude who had a sudden mid-life psychotic episode.




I don't know. I jumped into the thread and saw some major minimization going on. Trying to excuse his behavior as possibly being motivated by heroism? Calling them "two crazy kids" as if they are on equal footing, just a couple of impetuous teens who ran off to elope across state lines?


This is a child who was quite sheltered for most of her life, so she's even less worldly than kids her age, she comes from apparently a dysfunctional home life and she appears to have been subjected to bullying. She's very vulnerable and the perfect target for a predator like this monster. She's not some crazy kid running off with another crazy kid.


She is in grave danger with this man. The backstory mattered in the first few hours. It doesn't now. Everyone has to approach this case as if she continues to be with him willingly and is helping the two of them escape detection, and as if she is desperate to be rescued. Both scenarios are plausible and nothing about the backstory is going to confirm things one way or the other.


At this point my guess is she bought into a fantasy but had reservations even as she fled. I do believe she said something about calling the police if she wasn't back by 6. I think she's been conflicted. She had confirmation set for last weekend and kept pestering her brother to be there. She was excited for that.


Kids that age, especially sheltered ones, can have a hard time understanding the difference between reality and fantasy and can have a hard time understanding consequences.


I bet she started to regret her actions pretty quickly. I also think that if she's still alive she is scared. But she may still act to help him avoid detection by keeping quiet, not running and staying hidden. Even if she wants to go home.


It has to be assumed that she is helping him to avoid them being caught. And that she may both want to come home and fears being in trouble.


Minimizing the disgusting criminal behavior of this man doesn't help the case. In fact, it could hurt. On outside sites like in comments' sections in news articles, I have seen repeated comments about how he shouldn't be treated like a criminal. He did nothing wrong because she is a willing partner in this. And these comments are from men AND women!

With respect to the bolded(bm)

<mod snip>

Most of us are gathering anything we could use to understand the full scope and possibilities of where they might be headed, and don't appreciate being tared and feathered with the same brush as these two.

 

[BloodshotEye]

Thanks for this post. The article discloses that yes, TC had a Twitter account. Most likely ET had one (or more) as well. Someone up there wondered if we had Twitter accounts for them. I'm also wondering about Snapchat.
Editing: Forgot link to TC's twitter account, if some had missed it earlier.
https://twitter.com/tadcummins

 

[Gardenista]

Thanks to whoever posted this link.

http://fox6now.com/2017/03/22/missing-tennessee-student-from-kissing-allegation-to-manhunt/

This is disgusting and this teacher needs to be fired:

&#8220;To make matters worse, it appears that this issue is being readily discussed by faculty members and, on at least one recent occasion, in a derogatory tone and manner about Mr. Thomas&#8217; daughter,&#8221; the letter says."