Travis Alexander and Jodi Arias - What do you believe?

[Chanler]

http://www.courtminutes.maricopa.gov/docs/Criminal/102009/m3944527.pdf

The Court has received State’s Objection to Defendant’s Request for Additional
Discovery Relating to any and all Forensic Examinations Conducted upon any and all Electronic Media.

IT IS ORDERED setting oral argument on November 13, 2009 at 8:30 a.m. in this
division, to be heard in conjunction with the Capital Case Management Conference.

Hi, Nobodyzgirl, thanks for this! It's just a guess, but I think that the sides are taking shape. I think that Jodi's lawyers are constructing a very broad defense, looking hard for any holes or conflicting evidence in the forensic reports, hoping to both muddy Arias' connection with the crime and substantiate the possibility that her alibi of ninja intruders is true.

The prosecution, on the other hand, seems to be anticipating this attack and is objecting to the unusual ("any and all") inclusiveness of the request for additional discovery.

The defense strategy requires lots of detailed refutation; practical and possibly effective with a high-budget defense like O.J.'s, but much more iffy and risky in cases with public defenders.

 

[nobodyzgirl]

Hi, Nobodyzgirl, thanks for this! It's just a guess, but I think that the sides are taking shape. I think that Jodi's lawyers are constructing a very broad defense, looking hard for any holes or conflicting evidence in the forensic reports, hoping to both muddy Arias' connection with the crime and substantiate the possibility that her alibi of ninja intruders is true.

The prosecution, on the other hand, seems to be anticipating this attack and is objecting to the unusual ("any and all") inclusiveness of the request for additional discovery.

The defense strategy requires lots of detailed refutation; practical and possibly effective with a high-budget defense like O.J.'s, but much more iffy and risky in cases with public defenders.

I'll be interested to see whether the courts agree with the state or the defense and their reasoning. I find it an odd request, because I thought that the State would have to provide the defense with all discovery regardless.

If the defense is going with the "ninja" theory, I'm going to fall off my chair laughing. Her story didn't even make sense, that they would let her away so easily, and the fact that her purse was right beside her the entire time was just a joke. I'm surprised she didn't say she swung her purse at them to escape.

I do agree Chanler, that Jodi's defence will be looking for a broad defence and looking for that "needle in the haystack" to get her off. I sure hope they don't find it, or a legal loophole to get her off and like you said, it's going to be risky in htis case with public defenders.

 

[Chanler]

I'll be interested to see whether the courts agree with the state or the defense and their reasoning. I find it an odd request, because I thought that the State would have to provide the defense with all discovery regardless.

If the defense is going with the "ninja" theory, I'm going to fall off my chair laughing. Her story didn't even make sense, that they would let her away so easily, and the fact that her purse was right beside her the entire time was just a joke. I'm surprised she didn't say she swung her purse at them to escape.

I do agree Chanler, that Jodi's defence will be looking for a broad defence and looking for that "needle in the haystack" to get her off. I sure hope they don't find it, or a legal loophole to get her off and like you said, it's going to be risky in htis case with public defenders.

Hi, Nobodyzgirl. The state is required to turn over forensic evidence and some paperwork, but lawyers fight vigorously over the parameters. The "any and all" stipulation, if simply accepted, might well create grounds for an appeal after conviction. The photographs of the apartment that we've seen indicate that the tests were very extensive. In an apartment with several roommates and multiple guests and visitors, I wouldn't be surprised that DNA of unknown persons was also present at the scene. Also, the defense might try to highlight inconclusive test results or tainted samples. But as you quite rightly say, this is a needle in a haystack strategy.

It would be difficult for the defense to reject the ninja defense now that Jodi has put it out there. Their strongest strategy would have been a self-defense defense, a line that Jodi herself hinted at, but she's set herself up as a dream target for cross-examination. I don't think that there's a jury on earth that will believe she was so traumatized by the events that she calmly denied that they occurred until the photographs and the bloody palm print turned up.

I still find it very striking that she seems to have cleaned up Travis' body, but didn't remove traces of herself from the crime scene. Obviously, it was an intense experience and if she planned to get away, she wasn't coping with it very rationally.

 

[nobodyzgirl]

Hi, Nobodyzgirl. The state is required to turn over forensic evidence and some paperwork, but lawyers fight vigorously over the parameters. The "any and all" stipulation, if simply accepted, might well create grounds for an appeal after conviction. The photographs of the apartment that we've seen indicate that the tests were very extensive. In an apartment with several roommates and multiple guests and visitors, I wouldn't be surprised that DNA of unknown persons was also present at the scene. Also, the defense might try to highlight inconclusive test results or tainted samples. But as you quite rightly say, this is a needle in a haystack strategy.

Thanks for the information Chanler. WOW, I'm surprised that the State doesn't have to hand over everything. In Canada, the Crown (which is the same as the State Attorney), has to hand over all disclosure they receive to the defence.

It would be difficult for the defense to reject the ninja defense now that Jodi has put it out there. Their strongest strategy would have been a self-defense defense, a line that Jodi herself hinted at, but she's set herself up as a dream target for cross-examination. I don't think that there's a jury on earth that will believe she was so traumatized by the events that she calmly denied that they occurred until the photographs and the bloody palm print turned up.

I think they will be going with self-defence. She did also allude to the fact that Travis may have beat her, so they may try and and use that also. I completely agree with you about the jury believing that she was traumatized by the events, especially because of what she did right afterward leaving, and not calling 911. Her defence have a lot of hurdles to jump over that's for sure.

I still find it very striking that she seems to have cleaned up Travis' body, but didn't remove traces of herself from the crime scene. Obviously, it was an intense experience and if she planned to get away, she wasn't coping with it very rationally.

It's amazing all the evidence she left behind and the camera in the washing machine. I wonder if she was concerned or possibly knew that his roommates would be returning and did a haphazard job of cleaning up after the crime.

I can hardly wait for the trial to begin to hear what defence has to say.

 

[Chanler]

Thanks for the information Chanler. WOW, I'm surprised that the State doesn't have to hand over everything. In Canada, the Crown (which is the same as the State Attorney), has to hand over all disclosure they receive to the defence.

I think they will be going with self-defence. She did also allude to the fact that Travis may have beat her, so they may try and and use that also. I completely agree with you about the jury believing that she was traumatized by the events, especially because of what she did right afterward leaving, and not calling 911. Her defence have a lot of hurdles to jump over that's for sure.

It's amazing all the evidence she left behind and the camera in the washing machine. I wonder if she was concerned or possibly knew that his roommates would be returning and did a haphazard job of cleaning up after the crime.

I can hardly wait for the trial to begin to hear what defence has to say.

Hi, Nobodyzgirl, the basic forensic information and police reports are always turned over, but there are things beyond that, such as paperwork for specimen transfer, raw notes, and internal communications that may or may not be regarded as relevant. Individual states operate on different guidelines and judges sometimes rule that defense requests are excessive. (After the O.J. trial, lawyers are more conscious of nullifying juror opinions by just wearing them out with extraneous information.) I've heard, for instance, of lawyers demanding police phone records and memo pads, some of which consist of no more than personal jottings.

I think that Jodi's clean-up wasn't practical; it was psychological. She cleaned up the "dirty" pictures by tossing them in the dryer. She apparently washed Travis's body (which, to me, sounds almost like a religious cleansing), but the crime scene itself was left very bloody.

You're right, I think, that the possible arrival of the roommates in the apartment might have increased her urgency. I also suspect that Jodi wanted to put as much distance between herself and the crime scene as quickly as possible. It will be interesting to read a more specific timeline of that day.

 

[nobodyzgirl]

Hi, Nobodyzgirl, the basic forensic information and police reports are always turned over, but there are things beyond that, such as paperwork for specimen transfer, raw notes, and internal communications that may or may not be regarded as relevant. Individual states operate on different guidelines and judges sometimes rule that defense requests are excessive. (After the O.J. trial, lawyers are more conscious of nullifying juror opinions by just wearing them out with extraneous information.) I've heard, for instance, of lawyers demanding police phone records and memo pads, some of which consist of no more than personal jottings.

I think that Jodi's clean-up wasn't practical; it was psychological. She cleaned up the "dirty" pictures by tossing them in the dryer. She apparently washed Travis's body (which, to me, sounds almost like a religious cleansing), but the crime scene itself was left very bloody.

You're right, I think, that the possible arrival of the roommates in the apartment might have increased her urgency. I also suspect that Jodi wanted to put as much distance between herself and the crime scene as quickly as possible. It will be interesting to read a more specific timeline of that day.

Thanks Chanler, for helping me out with the legal ins and outs in the US.

I always figured that Jodi became a Mormon so she could have a connection with Travis, though washing his body would definitely be considered some sort of religious cleansing and she may have done it because he was Mormon. I really don't know very much about the Mormon faith to be honest.

It would be interesting (and no doubt scary) to get inside Jodi's head to see what she was really thinking while she was on Travis' premises that fateful day.

 

[Chanler]

Thanks Chanler, for helping me out with the legal ins and outs in the US.

I always figured that Jodi became a Mormon so she could have a connection with Travis, though washing his body would definitely be considered some sort of religious cleansing and she may have done it because he was Mormon. I really don't know very much about the Mormon faith to be honest.

It would be interesting (and no doubt scary) to get inside Jodi's head to see what she was really thinking while she was on Travis' premises that fateful day.

Hi, Nobodyzgirl, I think that you're right. Jodi was converted to Mormonism by Travis and her faith seems to have been intertwined with her faith in him. If I'm not mistaken, she said that Travis participated in her temple baptism, which, in Mormonism, is apparently an impressive, full-body immersion ritual. For some one who lives life very symbolically like Jodi, this ritual must have been especially significant.

 

[RIP~Travis]

Chanler, ITA about the timing of Travis' trip and Jodi's visit, especially because Travis was going with someone else and not her.


Does anyone remember when Travis was supposed to go on that trip? I'm just wondering if the dog would have already been with whomever was watching him, or if he would have still been in the house when Jodi showed up.

According to the Probable Cause Statement, Travis was scheduled to go on his trip to Cancun Mexico on Tuesday, June 10th with Marie Hall. In the same statement Marie says she had been trying to get ahold of Travis over the phone since June 1st. Possibly Jodi found the messages from her on his phone and that is what set her off. This link has been posted before but I am posting it again for easy reference.

http://www.azcentral.com/kpnx/pdf/jodi_arias0911.pdf

 

[RIP~Travis]

I found this link on the In Loving Memory of Travis Alexander Facebook page and found it very interesting. I am very excited to share it with you guys. It is a blog from a "Human Lie Detector" This person breaks down Jodi's whole story and points out what they believe to be deceptive and why. Really gave me alot to think about, hope you enjoy it. BTW-the result is this person believes Jodi is lying. :dance:

Ok, so it won't let me post a direct link. If you google "eyes for lies blog" - then click on Jodi Arias in the list of names down the lower left side of the homepage. Once on the page about Jodi directly below the first paragraph click on read more, this is where the breakdown is. Sorry the link won't work but it is worth the effort to check out the blog.

 

[Knox]

Thanks RIPtravis, we have this link upstream couple of pages. Just proves the general consensus ... Guilty!! Common sense tells us Jodi's story is a lie. Hard to think that anyone believes her story?! If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck ... IT'S A DUCK!!!

 

[RIP~Travis]

I must have missed the earlier posted link, this site is so full of information just from us, I can't imagine what evidence LE has on this case. Hopefully it will be enough to not even allow a bit of doubt for a conviction. I am also glad the judge denied a delay in trial date, Feb 2010 can not come soon enough for me.

 

[nobodyzgirl]

Oral Arguments and case management conference are scheduled today starting at 8:30 a.m. Hopefully we get some new information next week.

http://www.courtminutes.maricopa.gov/docs/Criminal/102009/m3944527.pdf

 

[nobodyzgirl]

http://www.courtminutes.maricopa.gov/docs/Criminal/112009/m3971765.pdf

IT IS ORDERED that the State shall disclose on or before November 20, 2009, a mirror image of the hard drive (internal, external and storage device) and the memory card(s) from the cellular phone(s).

With respect to the text messages on the CD that the State previously disclosed to Defense counsel, IT IS ORDERED that the State’s paralegal shall work with Defense counsel to locate the text messages on Defense counsel’s copy of the CD.

With respect to Defendant’s Motion to Strike State’s Death Notice Since Death by Lethal Injection will Result in Cruel and Unusual Punishment filed on November 9, 2009, IT IS ORDERED that the State shall file a Response and Defense counsel shall file a Reply.

The Court notes that Defense counsel is not requesting oral argument on the motion.

Due a conflict in the Court’s calendar, IT IS ORDERED vacating the Trial Management Conference set on January 29, 2010.

Discussion is held re: Defendant’s previous Motion to Continue, which was denied by Judge McMurdie.

Defense counsel advises the Court that he intends on filing another Motion to Continue Trial.

IT IS ORDERED setting the next Capital Case Management Conference on December 11, 2009 at 10:00 a.m. in this division.

IT IS FURTHER ORDERED affirming Trial set on February 2, 2010 at 8:30 a.m. in this division.

 

[Chanler]

http://www.courtminutes.maricopa.gov/docs/Criminal/112009/m3971765.pdf

IT IS ORDERED that the State shall disclose on or before November 20, 2009, a mirror image of the hard drive (internal, external and storage device) and the memory card(s) from the cellular phone(s).

With respect to the text messages on the CD that the State previously disclosed to Defense counsel, IT IS ORDERED that the State’s paralegal shall work with Defense counsel to locate the text messages on Defense counsel’s copy of the CD.

With respect to Defendant’s Motion to Strike State’s Death Notice Since Death by Lethal Injection will Result in Cruel and Unusual Punishment filed on November 9, 2009, IT IS ORDERED that the State shall file a Response and Defense counsel shall file a Reply.

The Court notes that Defense counsel is not requesting oral argument on the motion.

Due a conflict in the Court’s calendar, IT IS ORDERED vacating the Trial Management Conference set on January 29, 2010.

Discussion is held re: Defendant’s previous Motion to Continue, which was denied by Judge McMurdie.

Defense counsel advises the Court that he intends on filing another Motion to Continue Trial.

IT IS ORDERED setting the next Capital Case Management Conference on December 11, 2009 at 10:00 a.m. in this division.

IT IS FURTHER ORDERED affirming Trial set on February 2, 2010 at 8:30 a.m. in this division.

Hi, Nobodyzgirl, thanks so much; this is fascinating. Several off-the-top-of-my-head thoughts:

The defense is obviously intensely interested in what has been preserved digitally. (Jodi doesn't know everything that Travis wrote and she's probably forgotten much of what she wrote and when she wrote it.) That they don't have it yet makes their motions for continuance that much more understandable.

That the defense is arguing what is essentially a constitutional issue (cruel and unusual punishment) indicates to me a combination of desperation and stalling. That they have waived oral arguments on the matter might indicate that Jodi doesn't want to be around to hear talk on this painful topic.

I'd hate to be on the defense team. They not only have a steep uphill climb; they don't have much time to accomplish it.

 

[nobodyzgirl]

Hi, Nobodyzgirl, thanks so much; this is fascinating. Several off-the-top-of-my-head thoughts:

The defense is obviously intensely interested in what has been preserved digitally. (Jodi doesn't know everything that Travis wrote and she's probably forgotten much of what she wrote and when she wrote it.) That they don't have it yet makes their motions for continuance that much more understandable.

That the defense is arguing what is essentially a constitutional issue (cruel and unusual punishment) indicates to me a combination of desperation and stalling. That they have waived oral arguments on the matter might indicate that Jodi doesn't want to be around to hear talk on this painful topic.

I'd hate to be on the defense team. They not only have a steep uphill climb; they don't have much time to accomplish it.

It will be interesting to see what information they are looking for on the digital stuff.

ITA with you Chanler, I think they are using this tactic because they are desperate and they are in fact stalling. February, 2010 is not that far off. My opinion is that Jodi will view "cruel and unusual punishment" if in fact she doesn't get the DP and has to live the rest of her life behind bars. IIRC, didn't she say she'd prefer to die then sit in jail.

I'd hate to be on that defense team also. I can hardly wait to hear what they are going say in her defence.

I also wonder, if it will be televised, and if not, I wonder if one of the local media will be tweeting the case from the courthouse. I just recently followed a trial in my area where the media were tweeting during trial, it was almost as good as being there

 

[Chanler]

It will be interesting to see what information they are looking for on the digital stuff.

ITA with you Chanler, I think they are using this tactic because they are desperate and they are in fact stalling. February, 2010 is not that far off. My opinion is that Jodi will view "cruel and unusual punishment" if in fact she doesn't get the DP and has to live the rest of her life behind bars. IIRC, didn't she say she'd prefer to die then sit in jail.

I'd hate to be on that defense team also. I can hardly wait to hear what they are going say in her defence.

I also wonder, if it will be televised, and if not, I wonder if one of the local media will be tweeting the case from the courthouse. I just recently followed a trial in my area where the media were tweeting during trial, it was almost as good as being there

Hi, Nobodyzgirl; you're so right; it is fascinating. And, yes, Jodi did say that she would prefer life imprisonment, although I think that her lawyers (and/or her own instinct for self-preservation) might change that inclination.

The defense really has to play catch up in double time. Their request for prosecution paralegal help sounds to me like an admission that they're not technically adept.

With her televised interviews and police interrogation denials, Jodi has painted the defense in a very tiny corner. I think that her contentions that she and Travis had resolved their relationship into a "friendship with benefits" is at the root of the digital requests: I think that the computer, phone records, and text messages will indicate a much more persistent pursuit by her long after the date she said they stopped being a couple. They might also include Travis' emails to others about his Jodi problems and perhaps even his private online digital journal (many Mormons keep them). In addition, they might voice his suspicions that she was behind the vandalism of his car and perhaps other incidents.

Self-defense would have been her strongest card. She could have even used the nude photos as part of the narrative; saying that Travis turned on her in guilt, revulsion, or anger after they had had sex. But, thanks to her, that day is past.

Tweets at a trial! What a wonderful idea.

 

[Chanler]

I should have written that Jodi said that she preferred execution, rather than life imprisonment.

Apparently her lawyers have already talked some sense into her: She hasn't offered herself up for any more televised interviews.

 

[SheStartedIt]

Wanted to share what I just found in my junior high yearbook....

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Wanted to share what I just found in my junior high yearbook....

(!!!) Good grief!

 

[nobodyzgirl]

I should have written that Jodi said that she preferred execution, rather than life imprisonment.

Apparently her lawyers have already talked some sense into her: She hasn't offered herself up for any more televised interviews.

I wonder what her lawyers have said to her to get her to stop the interviewing. My personal opinion is that if she is convicted, it should be life without chance of parole, and not the DP, I think it would be a better punishment, given she's been vocal about how she'd prefer the dp.