Trial Discussion Thread #36 - 14.05.09 Day 29

[Ncl1968]

Please excuse my ignorance as I am sure this has been asked and answered, but I am curious as to how OP knew where to shoot through the door to strike Reeva? If he really thought it was an intruder, wouldn't he have shot more than 4 times and in not so narrow a pattern? TIA

Imo....the first shot the hip.. Well they were talking and he fired a warning shot at her this hurt her like crazy the pain must have been unbearable so this escalated into screaming which had to be stopped so on he goes with more shots he can hear where abouts she is in that small space and I believe he could see either through a crack or a panel off the door the main bathroom lights were on
I believe violent actions before had occurred she was threatening to tell all police and more scary the media so I think he wanted to talk her around from this but it went to far.. He is guilty of pre med murder cos he chooses to finish the threat off. He could have walked away but choose not to

 

[Interested Bystander]

It's been suggested that the PTSD could have been a result of his boat accident which i don't buy into at all.
BIB Agree 100%.

Ahhh I didn't think of that. The only reports I have seen of his condition after the accident were that his brain was said to be functioning normally. Whether it still is I wouldn't like to guess. I know nothing about brain injury and its after effects. Given that he suffered from histrionics before the boat accident I would hazard a guess that he had a big problem beforehand.

 

[Zuri]

BBM - He stopped shooting once the screaming that he never heard... stopped. He didn't have a reason for why he stopped shooting when Nel asked him. Martin Hood, a defence attorney and firearms holder, said the grouping was quite small, and that if OP was in such a heightened state of mind (as he said he was) then there would have been a lot of shake (bearing in mind he was also allegedly shooting with one hand) and he would have expected a much more random grouping of shots. He also said the grouping indicated OP had much more control over the gun than he was prepared to admit.

Thank you for answering my question. I was just thinking that if I truly thought that I or my family was in danger, and I owned a gun, the door would have been obliterated. No need for a cricket bat. So much of this doesn't seem to make sense. I really wanted to believe his story, but alas, sometimes the truth is not stranger than fiction. :seeya:

 

[44ALLAN]

I'm pretty sure it is all being noted down .. and I have a feeling that Nel isn't pouncing on some of these things because he doesn't want OP to have to admit to knowing it was Reeva in the toilet just yet .. I'm guessing that he needs to take the trial through it's whole process and then will just use all of these things in his summing up at the end* (I'm led to believe that both Roux and Nel will do this right at the end, and present what they believe to have happened based on their findings throughout the trial to the judge .. I think I'm right in saying that?)


* sorry, 'closing argument' .. I knew I'd used the wrong terminology!

I'm sure your right jay-jay but Nel usually pounces on things like that.............
e.g when OP said he went and checked the balcony?
Nel grilled him on that for ages.

Nel has several people writing down and listening to 'EVERY' word and prompting him all the time I just can't understand why he didn't jump on that at the time because waiting till closing arguments will be too late IMO.

I think they all missed it ?

 

[Carmelita]

Exactly having killed he would be deemed a danger to society and he would certainly be detained, if not imprisoned for a very long time.

I'm reading this thread backwards, by detained do you mean put in the nutter bin since you are posing it as a different thing than imprisoned?

 

[Val1]

I think it was put to Dixon that the recordings could have been normalised or the bat sounds boosted/gained in some way. I never heard a response and I believe the defence weren't able / didn't want to argue it.

I was surprised Nel didn't get it confirmed for the record though. Given the obvious difference between the loudness of a gunshot and a cricket bat hit, the latter would need some boosting to bring it to the same level as a gunshot. W admitted as much yesterday when he referred to the respective sound levels.

Sorry if this has already been answered but wasn't Dixon supposed to supply all that data via his computer files from either his first or second day of cross? Iirc Nel went through a bunch of questions the second day regarding how Dixon had handed some of it in. As for confirming the test itself, so far the sound expert(which both Dixon and W. have admitted they're not so of no evidentiary use to confirm the test's legitimacy) used to make those tapes has not materialized, I'm guessing he and his data probably won't.

 

[katydid23]

Thanks. Yes that's what I mean. He wants to create stuff that puts her in his bedroom to discount the fact she MAY have been in the spare room - he doesn't want any innocent falling out/arguing to be highlighted, which he presumes will lead incorrectly to premeditated murder.

Considering possibilities/options . . . Frustrating . .

That is interesting because I met a woman yesterday at Starbucks. She ws speaking with a SA accent so I began talking to her about the trial. LOL

Anyhow, she had been closely following it because she had recently lived in Pretoria. I asked her what she thought had happened. She said a similar scenario to yours. She thought they argued and RS went to another room to sleep. And possibly he did accidentally think intruder. OR perhaps he was angry and snapped.

I asked her why RS would stay and sleep in another room--why wouldn't she just leave. And this lady reminded me that a woman all alone would not want to go driving around Pretoria late at night. She said it is just not done if one can help it. So if RS became scared of him that night, she would call the police before leaving on her own, perhaps.

 

[Carmelita]

Thank you for answering my question. I was just thinking that if I truly thought that I or my family was in danger, and I owned a gun, the door would have been obliterated. No need for a cricket bat. So much of this doesn't seem to make sense. I really wanted to believe his story, but alas, sometimes the truth is not stranger than fiction. :seeya:

Oscar fired a gun not a cannon he would have needed a lot more bullets to obliterate that door. The door was not a solid enough object for the hollow point bullets to expand.

I really don't know anyone other than the states witness and a few sources quoted here that consider Oscar's shots a tight grouping.

 

[DebinGA]

BBM - He stopped shooting once the screaming that he never heard... stopped. He didn't have a reason for why he stopped shooting when Nel asked him. Martin Hood, a defence attorney and firearms holder, said the grouping was quite small, and that if OP was in such a heightened state of mind (as he said he was) then there would have been a lot of shake (bearing in mind he was also allegedly shooting with one hand) and he would have expected a much more random grouping of shots. He also said the grouping indicated OP had much more control over the gun than he was prepared to admit.

Yes to all that. OP also admitted thinking at the time that if he fired a warning shot into the shower stall, instead of the wc, it might ricochet and harm him. Whether he aimed or just fired at the door, he's already admitted knowing that a ricochet, much less 4, could cause the person inside grave damage.

 

[44ALLAN]

Maybe that's why he was looking at *advertiser censored* 20 minutes after he got home!

Well I'm willing to do the research for the forum if someone wants to send me a 20Kg bag of the stuff:angel:

 

[soozieqtips]

Yes to all that. OP also admitted thinking at the time that if he fired a warning shot into the shower stall, instead of the wc, it might ricochet and harm him. Whether he aimed or just fired at the door, he's already admitted knowing that a ricochet, much less 4, could cause the person inside grave damage.

Good point. And this was all going on when he didn't have time to think... but was having many thoughts.

 

[Viper]

Oh my goodness, that was as funny now as then. I hope Mangena's presence keeps Wollie from straying too far from the truth though. His "anything could have happened" was a bridge too far from an expert imo.

Agreed! It was a bridge too far. Desperation time.

 

[Duchy]

My only qualification in answering here is that I'm an American.

Hmmmm, if I were sitting on a jury...

Well, let me just say that Roux doesn't resonate with me. He seems effete. He strikes me as wimpy, a little Caspar Milquetoast-ish, and he looks just like my Great Aunt. It's a baaaad combination.

I imagine (from out out of nowhere, mind you) that Roux comes from a rich family background, attended private schools, and has benefited from family connections all his life.

For all those reasons, none of which are meaningful OR logical - OR accurate! - I didn't like him right off the bat.

Nel, I respect. He's direct, he's honest, he's gritty, he's damn smart, he's down to earth, and he's probably charming. He strikes me as man's man, a ladies man, he teaches little kids, and he probably helps little old M'Ladys across the street, too. It's a greeaat combination.

I imagine (from out out of nowhere, mind you) that Nel comes from a working class family, attended public schools, and has worked hard for everything he's gotten.

For all those reasons, none of which are meaningful OR logical - OR accurate! - I liked him right off the bat.

All things considered, I'd also like to think / hope that I could focus on the evidence. But, I'll admit, every time Roux spoke I'd sit there wanting to rip my hair out -- just like I do now. Ha!

OOOOH!! Look! legs! :loveyou::blowkiss::gthanks::skip::heartluv::woohoo::cake::fireworks::Banane41::cautionDrunk:

 

[DebinGA]

Good point. And this was all going on when he didn't have time to think... but was having many thoughts.

And his eyes were constantly moving from window to door, window to door... because OP thought more intruders could be coming through either.

 

[Duchy]

Somewhere somebody mentioned a callous that was causing him some trouble.

If it were me, I'd ask them to shove some memory foam up in there before they stitched me up.

:floorlaugh:

 

[PPKik]

Please excuse my ignorance as I am sure this has been asked and answered, but I am curious as to how OP knew where to shoot through the door to strike Reeva? If he really thought it was an intruder, wouldn't he have shot more than 4 times and in not so narrow a pattern? TIA

I think the general consensus is that he shot where he would hit center mass: the center of a person. The toilet was a small cubicle, so it was likely he would hit someone/something.

Why he shot four times is a question I have had too. I assume he heard Reeva (the intruder) fall. There was a magazine rack that she apparently collapsed onto. Maybe someone here has a theory that's more specific.

 

[Ncl1968]

Oscar fired a gun not a cannon he would have needed a lot more bullets to obliterate that door. The door was not a solid enough object for the hollow point bullets to expand.

I really don't know anyone other than the states witness and a few sources quoted here that consider Oscar's shots a tight grouping.

I think everyone here is asking why did he stop at four shots when the gun held 16...
Think about it... Why???

 

[whiterum]

I'm reading this thread backwards, by detained do you mean put in the nutter bin since you are posing it as a different thing than imprisoned?

Yes, like Blackwell as discussed above who was diagnosed with NPD after violently killing his parents in a narcissistic rage.

 

[katydid23]

Still love this bizarre part of Oscar on the stand

Nel: What position did you hold the gun?

OP: The gun was in my right hand, bent not extended. Pointing towards the door. I wasn't aiming at the door.

OP: The firearm was up, but I was not extending my arm.

Nel: If I just listen to your answer now, you weren't aiming?

OP: I was aiming at the door

Nel: There is a big difference between aim or point. Did you aim at the door or point?

OP: I pointed at the door, I didn't aim at the door.

[snipped]

.

Another example of OP saying one thing then saying the opposite one second later...:doh:

"I was aiming at the door, NO, I was not aiming at the door"

 

[PPKik]

Oscar fired a gun not a cannon he would have needed a lot more bullets to obliterate that door. The door was not a solid enough object for the hollow point bullets to expand.

I really don't know anyone other than the states witness and a few sources quoted here that consider Oscar's shots a tight grouping.

I am looking for a source about OP's shots being a "tight grouping" after reading a comment to Zuri's question. A tight grouping his shots were NOT! It looked to me as if he went half way across the door.