Trial Discussion Thread #37 - 14.05.12 Day 30

[Deleted member 102539]

I am sympathetic to this argument, but against it you have the height and angle of the bullet holes, which is why the experts are saying he was on his stumps. This needs to be clarified.

I would have bet, OP had his prosthetics on, but the expert witness told me I'm wrong. The psychiatrist today told us, OP doesn't/didn't like to show his stumps, not even to his family. Therefore I'm always still thinking, maybe he had legs on in the night of murder. My son, who is in the military, claims: if on legs, OP could hardly simulate to be on stumps while shooting at RS.

 

[Sha]

If Oscar Pistorius is a danger to society like I just heard on the news, just because he has generalized anxiety disorder?? Well, I have it too, not to mention PTSD, OCD, and depression. Does that mean I'M a danger to society too??

 

[Viper]

Snipped

I have maintained all along that if Oscar gets a slap on the wrist part of that slap will be that he must not handle a gun ever again.

BIB. LOL!! If that were to be the case, I'm sure that Judge Mazipa's Order will also include: butter knives, bricks, gardening shovels, and cast iron frying pans in her list of things that OP cannot ever handle again that he could use against another person the next time that his mental illness meets with his physical disability and his fear again.

Surely you cannot be serious. This man's own psychiatrist believes that he is a danger to society. Judge Masipa is going to put him in prison cell, where he will not be a danger to society. It is the only option.

Roux was quite shocked when Mr. Nel threw down the gauntlet on this! Talk about a deer staring in to the headlights! And as you catch up on watching the trial, please take note that Mr. Nel turns while he is addressing Judge Masipa and directs his voice and his eyes right upon OP! He did that many times today! It was as if he was telling OP, "Mr. Pistorius I will not allow you the luxury of asserting diminished capacity. I have your whiny little *advertiser censored** and it is time that you paid the price for what you have done."

 

[Carol70]

No this is a state facility with a unit for the criminally insane. They are not shackled as it is a hospital and it is against the law in a hospital especially a psych hospital. There are armed guards and high fences but they walk around as they please on the unit, can watch TV, read, talk to others, have snacks and three catered meals a day. They even have a night where they can order out if they have their own money. The place is clean and they share with one or two room mates (and their own bathroom in their room) but the beds are comfortable and they have clean linens every day if they want. They must bathe every other day or when told by staff. It is gorgeous in comparison to the jails (or prisons) I have seen. Most of the people who are sent for a 30 day eval are in jail because they cannot afford bail. But it is to their benefit to go along with it even if they were on bail. The judge who does most of the murder trials almost always believes the Psychiatric evaluation is legit. If the defense lawyer wants to ask for a ruling by the judge or judges (no jury) they almost always get NGRI if the Psychiatric team believes they are in fact not guilty by reason of insanity. They can only be held til the psychiatric team says they are no longer a threat to society (so to speak) and a group home etc. has been found for them as a trial to live elsewhere. It is so nice most of them don't want to leave. They have visitors just like any hospital. They have holiday meals and parties. No I don't suppose OP would like it there because he wouldn't be able to fool anyone. :moo:

Lol, I believe OP will more than likely go to Weskoppies if sectioned, if he isn't unstable now, he will be by the time he comes out- apparently it's hell on earth.

 

[DebinGA]

I would have bet, OP had his prosthetics on, but the expert witness told me I'm wrong. The psychiatrist today told us, OP doesn't/didn't like to show his stumps, not even to his family. Therefore I'm always still thinking, maybe he had legs on in the night of murder. My son, who is in the military, claims: if on legs, OP could hardly simulate to be on stumps while shooting at RS.

The most convincing evidence to me that OP wasn't on his stumps was the pic of the balcony bedside debris-strewn area he claimed he walked through several times post-murder in pitch blackness holding his cocked gun on stumps:

http://cdn.all4women.co.za/var/all4...n/1797099-1-eng-GB/bedroom-and-fan_web250.jpg

 

[Lyra500]

I don't understand this either. Roux is supposed to be a well-respected defence attorney (and I have no doubt he is good at his job) but in this instance, it seems like really sloppy work to have experts on the stand (who testify on subjects outside of their remit) and witnesses who have been roped in at the last minute. And almost all his witnesses have been damaging for the defence. What exactly is going on?

I am hopelessly behind, so please forgive me if I am posting a view which has already been posted.

I think this is far more a product of OPs disastrous testimony that of Roux's incompetence. At points Roux looked absolutely crushed during the five days of OPs testimony. He was not allowed to intervene and just had to sit and listen to OP's ever changing fabrications, slip ups and general foolishness.

I think everything since then has been a desperate attempt at damage limitation trying to address the many problems which OP's testimony introduced.

It also appears that at least some of the original experts have recently found themselves 'unavoidably detained' elsewhere and suddenly no longer able to appear for the defence. I believe this is also an indication of just how toxic OP's performance in the witness box was, leaving professionals very loath to be associated with the case by actually appearing in court for the defence.

 

[AlexUK]

I would have bet, OP had his prosthetics on, but the expert witness told me I'm wrong. The psychiatrist today told us, OP doesn't/didn't like to show his stumps, not even to his family. Therefore I'm always still thinking, maybe he had legs on in the night of murder. My son, who is in the military, claims: if on legs, OP could hardly simulate to be on stumps while shooting at RS.

'Twas funny....just now Sky News here in the UK were doing their nightly Oscar Trial round up and they showed the expert talking about how he didn't like to be seen without his prosthetic legs......whilst at the same time showing film of him showing off his stumps, (and how quickly he can put on his prosthetics), to the worlds press!

 

[Magdalyn]

Nel is beside himself.

<RSBM>


I put it to you that Nel is beside himself in the way a cat would be beside himself if he came upon a mouse, cuddled up with a piece of cheese, taking a nap in his food dish.

An expert called by Oscar Pistorius' defense team has opened the door for the Paralympian to be sent to a psychiatric institution – but the most damaging part of her testimony could be a Latin phrase dolus eventualis, which could put the Blade Runner in prison for a minimum of 15 years.

Called as a witness by the Paralympian's defense, psychologist Merryll Vorster testified Monday that the star athlete – who shot his girlfriend in the early hours of Valentine's Day morning last year – possessed an intent to murder, under South African law.

http://news.yahoo.com/oscar-pistori...ychiatric-ward-163005151.html?.tsrc=telkomsel

 

[DebinGA]

If Oscar Pistorius is a danger to society like I just heard on the news, just because he has generalized anxiety disorder?? Well, I have it too, not to mention PTSD, OCD, and depression. Does that mean I'M a danger to society too??

Absolutely not, but it makes me hope you'll share your informed insights.

 

[lithgow1]

Apologies if this has been already posted.

http://oscartrial.dstv.com/video/528554/category/0

 

[seattlechiquita]

BBM - Me too. Quite tiresome to keep reading the same derogatory comments about Nel over and over and over. He's just doing his job. OP is the murderer here. You'd never know that by the vile comments about Nel.

Nel is THE MAN. He is by far my favorite prosecutor in the years I have followed criminal trials. Him and the Ashton team.

 

[supernovaNic]

Lol, I believe OP will more than likely go to Weskoppies if sectioned, if he isn't unstable now, he will be by the time he comes out- apparently it's hell on earth.

I love your dog! What kind is it?

 

[seattlechiquita]

ok, listening to the Dr's testimony of this afternoon just now.

 

[Viper]

Lol, I believe OP will more than likely go to Weskoppies if sectioned, if he isn't unstable now, he will be by the time he comes out- apparently it's hell on earth.

Carol I don't know if you follow crime and trials very much or just this one, like me. But if you have knowledge of other accused criminals in SA going though this process, would you please share?

Mr. Nel distinctly said that he was going to ask Judge Masipa to Order that OP undergo a three (3) day observation. It has been noted that he could ask for one lasting as long as thirty (30) days. How long do these typically go on for? I can see a convicted murder being put through the longest term possible, but OP has not been convicted of anything yet so that would seem unfair to him. Please share your experience if you would. TIA

 

[toevlugsoord]

Was Henke Pistorius in court today? If not, who is the man sitting next to Aimee after lunch?

I believe it's one of her uncles -- a brother of her Dad. I think his name is Theo Pistorius.

 

[BritsKate]

Apologies if this has been already posted.

http://oscartrial.dstv.com/video/528554/category/0

I've been waiting all evening for you to post this. :gthanks:

 

[vansleuths]

The PT ran the lasers from the bathroom to the WC.

It would have been interesting if they had done the same thing but in the reverse direction. In other words, setup the laser in the WC and see how they laser lights align in the bathroom

 

[supernovaNic]

Edited to delete

 

[soozieqtips]

I am hopelessly behind, so please forgive me if I am posting a view which has already been posted.

I think this is far more a product of OPs disastrous testimony that of Roux's incompetence. At points Roux looks absolutely crushed during the five days of OPs testimony. He was not allowed to intervene and just had to sit and listen to OP's ever changing fabrications, slip ups and general foolishness.

I think everything since then has been a desperate attempt at damage limitation trying to address the many problems which OP's testimony introduced.

It also appears that at least some of the original experts have recently found themselves 'unavoidably detained' elsewhere and suddenly no longer able to appear for the defence. I believe this is also an indication of just how toxic OP's performance in the witness box was, leaving professionals very loath to be associated with the case by actually appearing in court for the defence.

Your reasoning makes a lot more sense than my thinking Roux was a bit sloppy in all this. I'd briefly forgotten that Perumal suddenly had other 'scheduling' issues and couldn't appear for the defence. Not to mention OP's ever-changing testimony must have made it difficult for Roux to know who to call - hence the witnesses showing up that were still carrying out sound tests when the trial was well under way, and then a psychiatrist who only weighed in just over a week ago! Wouldn't want to be Roux, right now!

 

[G.bng]

Just to help the understanding...
It is most definitely 30 days, not 3.
If he does go for observation, there will be 3 state employed psychiatrists (1 neutral, 1 PT, 1DT) who will interview him over the 30 days in Te institution. They then compile a joint report which goes to court.

All of these interviews and reports are sent to the court, so he loses his right to silence at that point on matters that are covered in the interview. It is a very clever tactic from Nel to find a new source of information which could allow him to reopen his case and call Oscar back to the stand.

South African courts do not use the temp insanity option. Either you have a defect or you don't!

Keep this in mind... If the shrinks think he is mentally ill, he doesn't get to leave mental institution until he is healthy, which is often indefinitely.
I can assure everyone.... This is not where you would want to spend any time!

BIB 1. I could be reading it wrong, but according to what Barry Bateman reports today in the Daily Maverick it appears he may not have to be institutionalised:

"Incidentally, if that were to be the case (i.e. Nel's application succeeding of which I have my doubts), the Criminal Procedure Act states that the court could detain the accused in a psychiatric hospital or a prison; detain the accused in another institution; release the accused subject to certain conditions; or release the accused unconditionally."

BIB 2. Are you sure OP looses his right to silence, because over here in the UK the psychiatrists that studied Shrien Dewani were not asked a dicky bird about what he had said to them about the case so I would find it strange SA psychiatrists would be allowed to "tell all"?.

BIB 3. IDK, but from my readings SA courts do appear to recognise "temporary insanity" as per the legal analysis titled "Insanity and Diminished Capacity Before the Court". Scroll down for the flowchart which resuming the part I am talking about goes:

What was X’s mental state at the time of the offence?
&#11015;
Non-pathological condition?
&#11015;
Temporary emotional states
&#11015;
Not guilty
&#11015;
Free​

Not that I think any of this will happen. From how Masipa was pushing Nel to continue his cross and to allow Roux to re-direct after, it seemed she was not convinced about allowing the application under Section 78, and it seems she has a very adamant Roux on her side to boot.​