GUILTY TX - Alanna Gallagher, 6, Saginaw, 1 July 2013 - #13

[Philigumbo]

This is a message board. On message boards people discuss the current topic, and very often, all of it's ramifications - at least the ones that are allowed.

If anyone here is uncomfortable with that, that is their priveledge and perogative. On the other hand, others have the same right to discuss what they will, within TOS, without being made to feel guilty.

My opinion only

Respectfully, I read Humans post as that these conversations are valuable for learning for prevention, not derogatory to the posters or the board. :seeya:

MOO and all that

 

[human]

Ain't watching that video Jo. Ugh. The front pic is enough for me.

Anyway, here is an article about that guy that plowed into the people on the beach in CA the other day.

The reason I posted it is to give documentation that he went and turned himself in after the deliberate murder and attempted murder. The whole " look at me" issue that is such a mystery.


http://www.kvue.com/news/218280391.html

 

[x_files]

bbm

Good point about the dogs. Would TH have cared for them if mom wasn't home?

If she had a bf's house she was staying at, she'd stop by in the morning and evening feed them and head off to work.
We can't sleuth KH so have no idea she even works at this point.
The disarray TH's room was shocks me his mom was there long to take a look inside!

 

[x_files]

I have read many cases of criminals (murderers, arsonists, rapists, etc.) who attempt to insert themselves into the investigation for various reasons, one being to get an idea of how much LE knows. BTK seemed to need to call attention to what he had done so that the crimes were attributed to the correct person (himself). This kind of twisted thinking gives normal people a headache, but there are some criminals who have a real need to see that they receive credit for what they've done, while still remaining anonymous to avoid being caught.

Jack the Ripper sent several letters taunting the police. He was dangling the truth (his identity) right in front of the, but they never solved it!

 

[Philigumbo]

BBM: I'm very curious to learn more about this behavior as well! I agree with another poster that mentioned this is a key element in analyzing his behavior. (I'm sorry, I don't remember how it was worded)

I'm muti-tasking today so all I can do is pop in and out of the conversation. Maybe later I will have some time to research this more.

It's definately negative attention seeking behavior and makes me wonder how many things he did that went unpunished, therefore causing his actions to escalate. Maybe he felt he could get away with anything and was continually pushing the limits.

I used to work in the juvenile probation department and have seen the continuous slap on the wrist lead to escalation of crime and eventual prison time. A few of the juveniles I have a little more knowledge on that ended up in prison as adults, came from homes where there was constant drama, drugs, lack of structure, supervision and guidance. I have seen parents stick up for the childs behavior and defend them denying their actions or blaming it on others. "My poor baby." I'm not saying this is across the board with all situations. I also know of parents/grandparents/guardians that tried everything and still ended up with children passing over into the adult system. The adults in these childrens lives that did put effort forth though, usually result in some sort of values being instilled in the youth and eventually most grow out of the delinquent behavior.

I'm not saying my above comments is what has happened with TH because I simply do not have enough information to make that determination. It's only speculation.

Beginners luck, from your experience, what types of behaviors in juveniles have you seen that could escalate to TH's level of crime? Such as, we've seen animal cruelty a previous behavior in many serial killers history. Is it all just a cluster of behaviors and situations that build on each other? Also, in your career, why have juveniles committed crimes and acted as TH did (inserting self at crime scene, leaving poor Alanna on the street in daylight, etc.) - is that a cry for help? A need to just get the satisfaction of seeing everyone's horror? To get back at his mother?? I guess I just don't understand the psychology. Do you, generally, of course, have an opinion of what went wrong here? TIA. :banghead:

 

[x_files]

No. I am saying if there is not discussion and evaluation of potential aspects to what causes these kinds of crimes, then all I see is sensationalism.

In the beginning there is a ton of interest, then people move onto to the next putrid crime.

It seems that when people try to come up with some info as to what may be contributing factors, it is met with , "Just fry him."

We will continue to have plenty of people to fry if we do not figure out what to do.

Here is a fabulous article that gives me hope. A guy who I would have not given a plugged nickel for any good in the world

http://news.yahoo.com/sikh-temple-attack-united-victims-son-ex-racist-151739382.html

I loved the article in the link. That gives us hope.
I want to know what causes people to snap and become violent criminals. Whether nature, nurture, brain damage, or in their genetic DNA code or just born that way (psychopath). I think we need to study it and try to prevent future criminals.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

No. I am saying if there is not discussion and evaluation of potential aspects to what causes these kinds of crimes, then all I see is sensationalism.

In the beginning there is a ton of interest, then people move onto to the next putrid crime.

It seems that when people try to come up with some info as to what may be contributing factors, it is met with , "Just fry him."

We will continue to have plenty of people to fry if we do not figure out what to do.

Here is a fabulous article that gives me hope. A guy who I would have not given a plugged nickel for any good in the world

http://news.yahoo.com/sikh-temple-attack-united-victims-son-ex-racist-151739382.html

Sadly, that is true. There are cases that still get daily posts months and years later while others go days, even a week, without any. It seems that in some cases, people say they've already discussed everything there is, while in other cases, people don't have a problem with rehashing the info over and over.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I think Holder might have set the fire because he thought LE had moved on from him. They weren't parked on the street, so he probably thought they weren't watching him. Maybe he also thought that since it had been weeks since they had came to his house, he was cleared? He's not the smartest person. I don't mean that he wanted to get caught, but maybe some frustration because he thought they weren't looking into him anymore? IDK.

 

[itsanadventure]

I think Holder might have set the fire because he thought LE had moved on from him. They weren't parked on the street, so he probably thought they weren't watching him. Maybe he also thought that since it had been weeks since they had came to his house, he was cleared? He's not the smartest person. I don't mean that he wanted to get caught, but maybe some frustration because he thought they weren't looking into him anymore? IDK.

I wonder about that too! Any attention is better than no attention. Plus, let's be honest, it doesn't look like this kid has really had his feet held to the fire about anything. Doesn't look like there has been much in the line of consequences. Drop out of school? No problem. Do drugs? No problem. Live in filth? No problem. Have no job? No problem. I think he just wanted attention and didn't think he would actually be in trouble for any of this.

 

[Txstrace]

If she had a bf's house she was staying at, she'd stop by in the morning and evening feed them and head off to work.
We can't sleuth KH so have no idea she even works at this point.
The disarray TH's room was shocks me his mom was there long to take a look inside!

Not pointing this directly at you x files but you reminded me of a point I meant to ask a while ago and forgot. I read over the search warrant but don't remember any notes as to where the items were found. For instance, how do we know all of this stuff was laying around his room? If they are searching various rooms I would assume they will go through the trash cans also. Items found in these would also be documented individually. How do we not know that they are documenting things from garbage cans and not things laying around (condoms, toilet paper rolls, etc)?

(Sorry but I don't remember how detailed the SW return was. I've read through so much stuff on this thread it boggles the mind sometimes)

 

[Marnie]

I wonder about that too! Any attention is better than no attention. Plus, let's be honest, it doesn't look like this kid has really had his feet held to the fire about anything. Doesn't look like there has been much in the line of consequences. Drop out of school? No problem. Do drugs? No problem. Live in filth? No problem. Have no job? No problem. I think he just wanted attention and didn't think he would actually be in trouble for any of this.

ITA!

Slash tires and egg neighbors car...
And probably dozens of other unreported petty crimes.

Something tells me that he got WAAAAAY too many passes and felt invincible.

I honestly believe that he no conscious about what he did to Alanna and thought he would get away with that too.

He was out on the street pacing and telling people it was Alanna who was found before it was officially announced.

He went to the memorial too.

I think he wanted her found so he could watch the "show". I think he got a thrill watching everyone in chaos and suffering.

 

[Dora the Explorer]

When are they going to share the contents of that note to his mom? *grumble*

 

[Backwoods]

To me, it would be interesting to know in what kind of general condition investigators found the Holder residence.

There's a lot of talk about the disarray in Tyler's room and living in filth, etc., which I understand comes from the used condoms, etc., collected. But the truth is, we don't really know his room or anyplace else was in disarray, do we -- it hasn't been reported that way? (Oh, I wouldn't be surprised if his room was in disarray -- teenagers often have a way with that, and so do substance users, IMO. And I'm neither of those, but so do I!)

For all we know, that whole icky assortment of used condoms, etc., could have been stashed away in one box under his bed.

The condition of the house in general could be a clue to how much time his mom was spending there lately.

ETA: I see now that Txstrace kind of raised this subject just before I did. I hadn't seen the post, sorry, Txstrace -- I must have been a long time in composing mine, LOL.

 

[Philigumbo]

human can answer for herself, but I get what is being said here:

BBM: Causes and potential solutions. Probing what may have caused TH to become the monster that was able to kill a sweet little child. How we, as a society, might be able to identify someone heading in a bad direction and intercede. IMO

Exactly!!! :rockon: we have to learn more.

 

[x_files]

Not pointing this directly at you x files but you reminded me of a point I meant to ask a while ago and forgot. I read over the search warrant but don't remember any notes as to where the items were found. For instance, how do we know all of this stuff was laying around his room? If they are searching various rooms I would assume they will go through the trash cans also. Items found in these would also be documented individually. How do we not know that they are documenting things from garbage cans and not things laying around (condoms, toilet paper rolls, etc)?

(Sorry but I don't remember how detailed the SW return was. I've read through so much stuff on this thread it boggles the mind sometimes)

good point!!!
Perhaps his mom had this stuff laying around her room or the entire house. Maybe, she's a slob too-or she no longer lived there or cared anymore. Definitely a mystery.

 

[EBrown]

ITA!


I think he wanted her found so he could watch the "show". I think he got a thrill watching everyone in chaos and suffering.

Similar to the profile of an "excitement arsonist" ... Will be interesting to see if he set the fires...

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I wonder about that too! Any attention is better than no attention. Plus, let's be honest, it doesn't look like this kid has really had his feet held to the fire about anything. Doesn't look like there has been much in the line of consequences. Drop out of school? No problem. Do drugs? No problem. Live in filth? No problem. Have no job? No problem. I think he just wanted attention and didn't think he would actually be in trouble for any of this.

I think in Holder's mind, he was annoyed because he wasn't getting any attention...from anyone. The media was not printing stories about his possible involvement. LE was not outside his house, or continuously questioning him. There wasn't much discussion of him online either.

 

[CatFancier]

If mom wasn't living at the home, I can't see that TH would bother moving her body. Many moms ignore a messy room but that's taking it over the edge.

 

[Philigumbo]

From Jo in Cali: "Although this was a shotgun wound I think it might be close to his injury. This is probably what the hospital dealt with when he was brought in.
I am also doubtful that he was spitting blood and being uncooperative, because of anything other than a reaction to his condition."


Snipped by me. And, as warned, very graphic video..

Exactly what I'm speaking of. Some people think a gunshot to the chin sounds like a clean entrance wound...and can be, however the damage done can be massive. Spitting blood or being uncooperative most likely due to the feeling of drowning (In his own blood and secretions), shock, pain, anxiety, and effort to clear his airway. And I've seen many times people who go down fighting, come up fighting...

MOO and all that

 

[IBsleuthin]

I think Holder might have set the fire because he thought LE had moved on from him. They weren't parked on the street, so he probably thought they weren't watching him. Maybe he also thought that since it had been weeks since they had came to his house, he was cleared? He's not the smartest person. I don't mean that he wanted to get caught, but maybe some frustration because he thought they weren't looking into him anymore? IDK.

RBBM

WOW you know that truly is an amazing idea! Like a little spoiled kid who wants more attention.

Hmmmm...