TX - Botham Shem Jean, 26, killed when police officer entered wrong apartment, Dallas, Sept 2018 #2

[kaen]

This loss of life can't be compared to a hunting accident for simple reasons.

2nd degree murder and self defense

Self-Defense

When a slaying occurs as a result of actions taken to protect ones own life, it is possible that the killer can escape legal consequences for the killing. The requirements for a self-defense argument vary between cases and jurisdictions, but there are a few general rules applicable to most self-defense situations.

Here are the basic elements of a self-defense claim:

• The defendant was not in a place they were prohibited from entering.
• The defendant cannot be at fault in the situation.
• The defendant was not the aggressor or instigator.
• The defendant had a reasonable fear of death or great bodily harm that required the use of force.
• The defendant fulfilled the requirement to retreat from the threat or attempt to avoid danger.

First, the defendant must be in a place that they had a right to be in when the situation arose. A trespasser, for example, cannot enter someones property and then claim self-defense if they kill the property owner in a scuffle.

Second, the general rule is that the person claiming self-defense must not have provoked the slain party in any way. If the situation arose because of the actions of the eventual killer, the killer cannot argue that the slaying occurred in self-defense. It might lessen the severity of the charge, but provocation by the defendant negates the possibility of an acquittal because of self-defense.

In addition, the person acting in self-defense must have had a reasonable fear of death or great bodily harm that necessitated the use of force. If the situation would not result in death or great bodily harm, or if the killers fear was unreasonable, then the self-defense argument is not available.

Furthermore, a person can only justify self-defense if the situation requires immediate action in order to prevent bodily harm or loss of life. Once the situation has ceased to threaten bodily harm or loss of life, the self-defense justification is no longer available.
~~~From FindLaw

 

[kaen]

Under those basic rules of self-defense, the shooter has a problem in an action where she asserts that she was protecting her own life.

She was in his apartment illegally. She had the chance to withdraw from the area and wait for back-up-- thereby not retreating from a dangerous situation and no reasonable fear except she chose to not withdraw. She was at fault for firing into a dark apartment (imagine if a child was in the living room).

 

[mickey2942]

Oh man, is it against TOS to link that or tell how you found it? I live vicariously through you guys. I’m a terrible sleuther and can’t find it.. TIA!

Check Out What Appears To Be Amber Guyger's Pinterest Account

 

[Medstudies]

Reply to medstudies: RE OJ.

I lived in LA that summer, that entire situation was a powder keg. The tension was palatable, and people were in fear if OJ was declared "Guilty". The jury made a decision based on issues aside from the evidence.

This is a different situation, and I can see, that the opposite will happen, the Killer would be best served to plead and let this go away. If she stays with her story for a trial, Dallas would explode if she is "Not Guilty".

Thank you for your reply. I cannot imagine living in the epicenter of that event.

ITA.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

http://www.dallaspolice.net/reports/Shared Documents/General-Order-906.pdf

 

[kaen]

http://www.dallaspolice.net/reports/Shared Documents/General-Order-906.pdf

Exactly! I posted this in the first thread. It is good to repeat it.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

 

[Jim G]

Ok, Let me rephrase my question. So you believe that the door was closed and locked and he opened it, or do you believe the door was open? Because if it was open or ajar what would be the point of using the key?? Any normal person could seen an open or ajar door and she is trained to be hyper observant. She would have surely had to have been impaired to not observe that, and if was headed to get impaired after her shift, she should have left her weapon in her locker. I get the 'your perception is your reality' thing. Persuade me to see it from your perspective!

Good questions Tina. I like how you think. Here's how I see it. She was exhausted after her shift of serving warrants to keep our streets safe. She made the mistake of going to the wrong location (which most of us have done in our lifetimes multiple times, be it a wrong street, wrong classroom, wrong store, etc). The door APPEARED closed but in fact was not fully engaged to lock ("clicked" … this has happened to me countless times through sheer laziness on my part, and I've never smoked the Sweet Leaf). She inserts key to gain access to what she believes to be her apartment. The door pops open. Who knows? Maybe Amber actually did believe her key opened the door. Botham is startled, Amber is startled to see what she thinks is a burglar...and from there it gets murky. I'm still trying to figure out why Botham did not verbally engage the person he thought was the intruder...I'm not blaming him, I'm just trying to figure it out. Even if you are in your own home, if someone is pointing a gun at you and giving you commands (and you are unarmed), the natural inclination is to comply

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Exactly! I posted this in the first thread. It is good to repeat it.

I’m sorry, I guess I missed it in all the rush. It states mandated criteria for the use of officer deadly force.

 

[kaen]

http://www.dallaspolice.net/reports/Shared Documents/General-Order-906.pdf

Bolded By Me
A. Justification for the Use of Deadly Force -In all situations, justification for the use of deadly force must be limited to the facts reasonably apparent to the officer at the time the officer decides to use the force.
B. Definitions

1. Reasonably Perceive - The facts or circumstances the employee knows, or should know, that would cause an ordinary and prudent peace officer to act or think in a similar way under similar circumstances.
2. Reasonable Alternative - An action that may be taken by the officer that may allow the officer to avoid the use of deadly force.

3. Reasonable Belief - A belief that would be held by an ordinary and prudent person in the same circumstances as the actor.
4. Serious Bodily Injury - Bodily injury that creates a substantial risk of death, serious permanent disfigurement, or protracted loss of impairment of the function of any bodily member or organ.

C. Avoiding the Use of Deadly Force
1. At the point when an officer should reasonably perceive the potential exists that deadly force may be an outcome of any situation, the officer must use reasonable alternatives if time and opportunities permit. The reasonableness of the action is based upon the time available, the opportunity of performing the action, and the facts apparent to the officer prior to and during the incident.
2. Planned and supervised hazardous entry situations are recognized as meeting the requirements of reasonable alternatives above.

 

[mickey2942]

"Reasonable alternatives", like walking away, and making a phone call to police.

 

[Medstudies]

All Dallas Cops to Wear Body Cameras by 2019, Chief Says

By next spring, every Dallas patrol cop will wear gadget the chief considers a 'must' | Dallas Police | Dallas News


Hmmm, so I wonder if she was in the 50% that has been issued a body camera? (of course she was off duty - but not really - or whatever. )

Just curious if anything has been mentioned that I have missed.

An excerpt:
“We know that body cameras are a must right now,” she said. “We’re trying to get that done in the next six to nine months to make sure that every officer is outfitted, not only for their safety, but this builds trust and legitimacy within our community.”

 

[ilovematt]

Check Out What Appears To Be Amber Guyger's Pinterest Account

Wow. I’ve always thought that out of all social media Pinterest is the most honest representation of who we are. Mostly bc we don’t really think anyone will see it, so we don’t censor ourselves. IMO hers just confirms she loved her power and held some pretty staunch political views which unfortunately could have been writing on the wall. I agree red flag city. The more I read, the more I really dislike her as a person and a cop. There is also a very juvenile vibe to her posts & caption phrasing. Almost like a bossy, spoiled 14 year old who thinks she’s got the world figured out. How was she on an elite anything? Despicable.

 

[TinaG]

Good questions Tina. I like how you think. Here's how I see it. She was exhausted after her shift of serving warrants to keep our streets safe. She made the mistake of going to the wrong location (which most of us have done in our lifetimes multiple times, be it a wrong street, wrong classroom, wrong store, etc). The door APPEARED closed but in fact was not fully engaged to lock ("clicked" … this has happened to me countless times through sheer laziness on my part, and I've never smoked the Sweet Leaf). She inserts key to gain access to what she believes to be her apartment. The door pops open. Who knows? Maybe Amber actually did believe her key opened the door. Botham is startled, Amber is startled to see what she thinks is a burglar...and from there it gets murky. I'm still trying to figure out why Botham did not verbally engage the person he thought was the intruder...I'm not blaming him, I'm just trying to figure it out. Even if you are in your own home, if someone is pointing a gun at you and giving you commands (and you are unarmed), the natural inclination is to comply

Thank you for your reply. The problem with your theory about the door is that the door doesn't function that way. I do not live in that building but I have the same kind of door. Hopefully more info will be forthcoming now that they have taken the doors and data.

 

[kaen]

Botham is startled, Amber is startled to see what she thinks is a burglar...and from there it gets murky. I'm still trying to figure out why Botham did not verbally engage the person he thought was the intruder...I'm not blaming him, I'm just trying to figure it out. Even if you are in your own home, if someone is pointing a gun at you and giving you commands (and you are unarmed), the natural inclination is to comply

Snipped by me and bolded by me

We will never know if he verbally engaged. Maybe he did. We do know that his last words were, "Oh my G-d! Why did you do that?" I think is is also reasonable to assume he answered and complied but she was fast to shoot.

If she had not shot to kill, we might. His neighbors heard his final words. That makes me think that she did not "give verbal commands" to him. It is strange that her affidavit says verbal commands. Most people would give more detail--- I said, "Don't advance." " Put your hands up." "Don't go for your wallet." etc. Why don't we know what she commanded? I have doubt that she did.

 

[Herat]

Her Pinterest reveals an ugly arrogance and false bravado

Very immature

I shudder to think this wanna-be was empowered to carry lethal weapons, but it goes along with what we know about this killing.

 

[mojook]

Check Out What Appears To Be Amber Guyger's Pinterest Account

It's exactly as how I imagined it would be. Her attitude is seriously disturbing, especially for a cop.

 

[flourish]

Check Out What Appears To Be Amber Guyger's Pinterest Account

I did not think it possible for me to dislike this woman any more, and yet, after viewing that, I feel a substantial increase in my ire. She needs to rot in prison forever. What a terrible person.

 

[cybervampira]

Botham is startled, Amber is startled to see what she thinks is a burglar...and from there it gets murky. I'm still trying to figure out why Botham did not verbally engage the person he thought was the intruder

If it happened as stated in the arrest warrant (I doubt it), he probably didn’t verbally engage because he was shell-shocked, and she was the ”shoot first, ask questions later” type. It‘s still murder. She aimed at him with the intent to kill, not like the FBI guy whose gun discharged while he was showing off his moves on the dancefloor - that’s what I’d call reckless and accidental. She wanted to kill him. Murder.

 

[fannneee]

(snip) I saw the interior apt photos on DM and her story would mean that his family was 100% wrong about him being a tidy, meticulous man or he was eating soup in the dark in his tighty whities? That sounds like a bad idea in so many ways.. a whole bowl of soup just left out? (snip)[/QUOTE]

I have no evidence to back up my opinion and it would not affect the issue of the bowl of food, but I thought the video of the apartment was done after the search. I was under the impression that a searches are not done neatly.