TX - Botham Shem Jean, 26, killed when police officer entered wrong apartment, Dallas, Sept 2018 #2

[imstilla.grandma]

Snip:
FOX 4 was told, but cannot independently confirm, that Amber Guyger was also a courtesy officer at the building she lived in. For her presence on property and responsibilities, she would have received reduced rent. It is a common practice for many officers to receive free or reduced rent for living in properties and providing some level of security. End Snip.
Legal expert: Arrest affidavit in Botham Jean shooting is not typical

 

[Jim G]

We need to investigate the midnight visitor and what the expectation of such a visit may have played in the misunderstanding. there is a whole lot we don't know about the exact interaction between shem and ag, like the exact words spoken, shem's movements, the exact location of the firing, whether shem was armed himself. and I would argue that if he were armed, he would have full rights to have shot the intruder. but then again, the door was left unlocked and ajar, does this make a difference? his citizenship status also make impact the legal process in unexpected ways. lucia is a very poor countrie. the witnesses produced so far by lee merit are a defense attorney's dream with their obvious bias, exploitation, and untruths. then there is the police chief who announces an arrest is imminent but then admits the investigation is not complete and calls in rangers. that alone will result in mistrial.

 

[blue22]

No worries, I posted a application for the Dallas PD. You are welcome to Join and bring about real change. The Police have a terrible job, that I would never take on. I do not share your view of Police Officers.

As someone who lives in Dallas county, I would never work for their police force. The known corruption, poor training, poor hiring, domestic and sexual abuse, etc...is not an environment I would subject myself to. They hire bottom feeders for a reason. (Yes, they do have some good cops. The culture is toxic and there are a lot of bad cops.) I would deal with situations myself as much as I could before I called the cops here. I don't trust them. I am FEARFUL of calling them. I don't think it's the responsibility of one individual to fix a culture. It's the city government's responsibility and they NEVER will. Oh, and I'm a petite female, so apparently I have no business being a cop anyway.

 

[TrueCrime03]

As someone who lives in Dallas county, I would never work for their police force. The known corruption, poor training, poor hiring, domestic and sexual abuse, etc...is not an environment I would subject myself to. They hire bottom feeders for a reason. (Yes, they do have some good cops. The culture is toxic and there are a lot of bad cops.) I would deal with situations myself as much as I could before I called the cops here. I don't trust them. I am FEARFUL of calling them. I don't think it's the responsibility of one individual to fix a culture. It's the city government's responsibility and they NEVER will. Oh, and I'm a petite female, so apparently I have no business being a cop anyway.

Touche, my apologizes. Please don't give me a ticket.

 

[blue22]

We need to investigate the midnight visitor and what the expectation of such a visit may have played in the misunderstanding. there is a whole lot we don't know about the exact interaction between shem and ag, like the exact words spoken, shem's movements, the exact location of the firing, whether shem was armed himself. and I would argue that if he were armed, he would have full rights to have shot the intruder. but then again, the door was left unlocked and ajar, does this make a difference? his citizenship status also make impact the legal process in unexpected ways. lucia is a very poor countrie. the witnesses produced so far by lee merit are a defense attorney's dream with their obvious bias, exploitation, and untruths. then there is the police chief who announces an arrest is imminent but then admits the investigation is not complete and calls in rangers. that alone will result in mistrial.

A visitor 2 hours after he was murdered in his own home? He was shot IN HIS HOME by an intruder. Why does HE need to be investigated? He is a citizen of the United States.

 

[La1959]

If you really are a former Police Office I am curious what you think

I really am. I have a lot of thoughts on the matter. Based on what has been released to the public I can't think of any justification for the shooting. I also feel that that the arrest warrant affidavit was a bit weak. But I also realize that there is a lot of information that won't be made public until trial, if it ever goes to trial. Officers only disclose in an affidavit the information necessary to establish the elements of the crime. So based on the limited information available, it appears that manslaughter is the appropriate charge. That could change as the investigation progresses. I'm curious as to what spin the defense will put on this to justify her actions. She has managed to come up with a somewhat believable explanation to place herself at his door. But from there...well all I can do is shake my head.

 

[mickey2942]

Mr. Jean's citizenship status has nothing to do with the fact that he was gunned down in his own home. Whether he is a legal Permanent resident or here from a student Visa to a work Visa, or working on changing his status is irrelevant.

And BTW, he appeared to be very attractive, intelligent, hard working, church going, I am surprised some gal didn't snatch him up. We don't even see that he had any children. A remarkable young man. A loss to his community.

 

[kaen]

A visitor 2 hours after he was murdered in his own home? He was shot IN HIS HOME by an intruder. Why does HE need to be investigated? He is a citizen of the United States.

And, even if he wasn't a citizen, it doesn't matter. He was in his apartment that he paid rent for each month--his castle.

 

[jjenny]

Snip:
FOX 4 was told, but cannot independently confirm, that Amber Guyger was also a courtesy officer at the building she lived in. For her presence on property and responsibilities, she would have received reduced rent. It is a common practice for many officers to receive free or reduced rent for living in properties and providing some level of security. End Snip.
Legal expert: Arrest affidavit in Botham Jean shooting is not typical

So maybe that's why this was dispatched as shooting by a security guard.

 

[blue22]

And, even if he wasn't a citizen, it doesn't matter. He was in his apartment that he paid rent for each month--his castle.

I agree completely. I was just clarifying that he is a citizen.

 

[Eclipse]

A visitor 2 hours after he was murdered in his own home? He was shot IN HIS HOME by an intruder. Why does HE need to be investigated? He is a citizen of the United States.

The only reason that would make sense is if they were looking for a possible connection between Mr. Jean and the officer. No one seems to know of a connection- and there probably isn't one- but phone and computer records might be helpful in making a final decision in discounting the possibility.

 

[TrueCrime03]

I really am. I have a lot of thoughts on the matter. Based on what has been released to the public I can't think of any justification for the shooting. I also feel that that the arrest warrant affidavit was a bit weak. But I also realize that there is a lot of information that won't be made public until trial, if it ever goes to trial. Officers only disclose in an affidavit the information necessary to establish the elements of the crime. So based on the limited information available, it appears that manslaughter is the appropriate charge. That could change as the investigation progresses. I'm curious as to what spin the defense will put on this to justify her actions. She has managed to come up with a somewhat believable explanation to place herself at his door. But from there...well all I can do is shake my head.

Thank you for the helpful information. I have learned alot in this thread. It sounds like she needs a hail Mary from the toxicology reports

 

[La1959]

We need to investigate the midnight visitor and what the expectation of such a visit may have played in the misunderstanding. there is a whole lot we don't know about the exact interaction between shem and ag, like the exact words spoken, shem's movements, the exact location of the firing, whether shem was armed himself. and I would argue that if he were armed, he would have full rights to have shot the intruder. but then again, the door was left unlocked and ajar, does this make a difference? his citizenship status also make impact the legal process in unexpected ways. lucia is a very poor countrie. the witnesses produced so far by lee merit are a defense attorney's dream with their obvious bias, exploitation, and untruths. then there is the police chief who announces an arrest is imminent but then admits the investigation is not complete and calls in rangers. that alone will result in mistrial.

Having the Rangers investigate a case such as this is exactly the right thing to

 

[kaen]

I agree completely. I was just clarifying that he is a citizen.

I know you were. I was reeling at the questioning of his status as if that makes it more palatable.

 

[blue22]

Snip:
FOX 4 was told, but cannot independently confirm, that Amber Guyger was also a courtesy officer at the building she lived in. For her presence on property and responsibilities, she would have received reduced rent. It is a common practice for many officers to receive free or reduced rent for living in properties and providing some level of security. End Snip.
Legal expert: Arrest affidavit in Botham Jean shooting is not typical

This blows my mind. Are cops allowed to wear their official uniform while being employed as a security guard? Are they allowed to use their department issued weapons as a security guard? Surely, protocols were breached.

(This is all speculative until we know that she was a security guard.)

 

[GMG1999]

That was stated in a newspaper article. If Mr. Jean is like me or my sons, he may have been carrying it around. In my family we do that a lot. The computer goes from the bedroom to the dining room to the living room many times a day. It may have been dropped when he was shot or gotten hit by the other bullet in a freak occurrence.

From the Dallas Morning News:
"The Texas Rangers got a search warrant for Jean's apartment because after interviewing Guyger, they believed that "a possibility exists that Subject Jean was expecting an unknown visitor" and that a cellphone or laptop may show evidence of that, according to an affidavit.

A return for the warrant shows the Rangers collected an iPhone from the living room. They didn't take Jean's laptop, which they noted was damaged." Victim's family disputes official account of the moments before Amber Guyger shot Botham Jean | Dallas Police | Dallas News

I think we would have heard from a late night visitor by now if there was one.

So she goes into an apartment that she thinks is her own, sees something of a person and shoots him, but somehow from that the Texas Rangers think Jean was expecting someone? I am so confused on this situation and sadly I don't believe much of what she has said.

 

[mickey2942]

So maybe that's why this was dispatched as shooting by a security guard.

Wow. Security guards around here, are armed with cell phones, meaning if anything goes down, call the police. Mr. Jean would still be alive if the killer had just made a phone call. Killer. I hope she goes to prison, and her career is over.

 

[Eclipse]

So she goes into an apartment that she thinks is her own, sees something of a person and shoots him, but somehow from that the Texas Rangers think Jean was expecting someone? I am so confused on this situation and sadly I don't believe much of what she has said.

I really don't see what it matters if the door was "ajar", or if she was failing to gain entry and he opened the door after hearing the noise, or if the door was shut and freakishly opened with her using the wrong entry device. It's still her fault for shooting him- and none of the scenarios gives her more of an excuse.

 

[Thora_Jay]

And because of poor judgment from the shooter who shot into a dark room and killed him, we will never be able to hear from the only other person who could testify as to what happened in the room that night. That would be the most valuable witness. Him being dead is very convenient for the defendant.

Hi there Kaen, I hope that the webcams Botham had in his home and that they were uploaded to his cloud account. It is obvious there were cams in his home per the warrant.

 

[kaen]

So, potentially:

She is the security guard.
She is making complaints about his noise level.
She may be security after a 15 hour shift on the job.
She just happens to end up at his (the man she complained about) apartment on a night where his door is ajar.
She happens to walk into his apartment in her uniform with her firearm.
He ends up dead.

Makes me wonder if she has a pass key. Or, if the management told her to handle it as the security guard.