TX TX - Heidi Broussard, 33, & Margot Carey, 2 weeks, Austin, 12 Dec 2019 #3

[steeltowngirl]

Patrick Frazee went to the cell provider too. And he is in prison now.

Yes. And learning that SC went to the cell phone store is - for me - the most damning piece of information. If he truly thought the phone data was helpful, he would have relied on the police to obtain the data. Not try to go get it himself. No way.

 

[katydid23]

Wait so, according to the other poster (not gitana...my quote thing isn’t working right)-

Am I understanding that a person going to the phone carrier counts as searching for someone, and therefore he shouldn’t be considered a suspect?

Because Patrick Frazee did that exact thing.

Jinx...I posted the same thought....and going to the cell phone store doesn't prove innocence.

 

[Msskeptic]

I just went back and watched the interview where they show the books she bought that morning. It was two paperbacks and a small board book. There is no way those three books cost $25, especially at a school book fair.

 

[mrsu]

This one? I only see one comment

KPLC 7 News

this one

 

[Mariposa]

If I was a guy in this situation trying (honestly or nefariously) to get across that she may have just taken off with the baby I would talk about her being troubled or upset about something. Isn’t that what CW did? And in this case the recently postpartum timing could really lend itself to that. But as far as I see no one at all has said that. I guess cynically that saying she was upset could backfire into painting a portrait of domestic strife instead of happy, lunch making, book buying placidity.

 

[Steelslady]

He has a daughter with an ex wife who also lives nearby. That daughter probably lives with her mom. I think as this first came down, he had his son staying elsewhere and may have mentioned it was shield him from what's going on. The boy could be back home with him now but we don't know.

Is he even allowed back at that apartment? I know when the Berreth's were staying there, once LE figured out it might have been a crime scene after the Berreth's found blood in the bathroom and other suspicious things, they made them leave Kelsey's condo.

 

[UnderstandBlue]

I just went back and watched the interview where they show the books she bought that morning. It was two paperbacks and a small board book. There is no way those three books cost $25, especially at a school book fair.

Just one of the books is listed for $29 here: Stick and Stone - I don't think $25 for 3 books is crazy - magazines cost $15.

Barnes and Noble price: Stick and Stone|Hardcover

 

[ajaylee]

Is he self employed or does he work for a moving company?
Most moving companies have GPS trackers. Should be fairly easy to trace HIS movements that day by video surveillance in the area as well as his phone & likely truck tracker.
I’m struck by the pressor - “to be honest, we’ve got nothing” is frightening. I wish they had used “don’t want to discuss it”
I’m hoping they’re amassing all the electronic & video data and Lord knows that takes a long time.

is it true he was in T-Mobile that day? If he was, what for?

"We've got nothing" isn't necessarily cause for concern. The police may have some evidence but clearly not enough for an arrest yet. If they downplay the evidence they do have, it might lull the perp(s) into a false sense of security - and possibly lead to a slip-up. I think there's a chance that LE thinks mother and child are still alive but if LE appears to be getting close, mother and child's lives might be in jeopardy - and/or someone might make a run for the border. Until they have enough to actually make a move, warrants signed and ready, they need to keep things close and continue to very quietly amass evidence. Folks have noticed that this case is very much unusual in that there haven't been the usual appeals to the public.

Even making wide allowances for differences in human behavior, I absolutely don't see why SC was rooting around in dumpsters looking for HB's keys. I have tried to imagine myself in a similar scenario, and looking for the keys would be the last thing on my mind: 1) because I would be looking for mother and child and 2) what exactly does he think finding the keys would accomplish? Does he think they'll have incriminating fingerprints? Why would he assume someone in the area wanting to ditch a set of keys wouldn't either take them off the property and farther away to ditch or wouldn't take a moment to bury them in the dumpster? Unless they've just been emptied - or HB's keys had an unusually large and noticeable key fob - what are the chances he was going to find them?

 

[Alathea]

Is he even allowed back at that apartment? I know when the Berreth's were staying there, once LE figured out it might have been a crime scene after the Berreth's found blood in the bathroom and other suspicious things, they made them leave Kelsey's condo.

I think he's still living there, which bothers me as it makes me think LE didn't get a really good look at it.

But, they know what they are doing, and I don't.

 

[*Verdigris]

deleting, just in case it kicks up more unintended dust!

 

[RANCH]

Well, I put a lot of weight into the reliability of my experience and years of following these cases.

But I’ll play.

No. It is ridiculous to suggest that body language be used as probable cause for search warrants. It’s weird to me that you would ask that.

Yes. Demeanor (of which body language is a part), is indeed a form of evidence in every criminal trial where someone testifies. Every witness who testifies does so live (rather than in writing) so that their demeanor can be examined by the jury.

Statements by defendants out of court are also examined by jurors who look at their demeanor. Or who hear about it from witnesses. “Did he cry?how did he react?”

And both sides will discuss demeanor in closing statements and at other times.

Further, while demeanor is obviously not to be used as probable cause, it sure as hell is closely scrutinized by investigators and forensic profilers. They are watching him whenever he makes a statement. They’re watching closely.

Frankly I am amazed that anyone would think body language and demeanor aren’t crucial in investigations and interrogations. Knowing when to push. What to say. When to back off. When to give some human contact. Gauging emotion based on body language is a huge part of that.

In fact, it’s crucial for humans in general when gauging the trustworthiness of any potential employee or mate or friend. Or when striking a deal is buying something. It’s crucial when we pass someone on the street or see someone in a car port, elevator or coming up to our door, etc., to gauge possible danger. We are, after all, still animals. And we use our bodies and faces to communicate.

Of course some people are better at deciphering body language than others. And some think it’s meaningless. The latter probably aren’t investigators. Not good ones at least.

So basically body language is a persons opinion or interpretation of someones demeanor that helps you decide things about them like if they are telling the truth.

Thanks for your reply. I don't always agree with you but you are a great asset to WS.

 

[MassGuy]

"We've got nothing" isn't necessarily cause for concern. The police may have some evidence but clearly not enough for an arrest yet. If they downplay the evidence they do have, it might lull the perp(s) into a false sense of security - and possibly lead to a slip-up. I think there's a chance that LE thinks mother and child are still alive but if LE appears to be getting close, mother and child's lives might be in jeopardy - and/or someone might make a run for the border. Until they have enough to actually make a move, warrants signed and ready, they need to keep things close and continue to very quietly amass evidence. Folks have noticed that this case is very much unusual in that there haven't been the usual appeals to the public.

Even making wide allowances for differences in human behavior, I absolutely don't see why SC was rooting around in dumpsters looking for HB's keys. I have tried to imagine myself in a similar scenario, and looking for the keys would be the last thing on my mind: 1) because I would be looking for mother and child and 2) what exactly does he think finding the keys would accomplish? Does he think they'll have incriminating fingerprints? Why would he assume someone in the area wanting to ditch a set of keys wouldn't either take them off the property and farther away to ditch or wouldn't take a moment to bury them in the dumpster? Unless they've just been emptied - or HB's keys had an unusually large and noticeable key fob - what are the chances he was going to find them?

Ha! And I’ve found generally, when someone utters the phrase “to be honest,” the next words out of their mouths are almost always a lie.

You didn’t include that part, but it goes to what you were saying.

I think they are downplaying what they do have, in order to make any suspect more calm. It gives them time to come up with more evidence, and could potentially allow this person to dig themselves a hole.

 

[Mariposa]

The stuff about the books for the little boy makes me ultra sad. I kind of think Heidi and her baby may be beyond pain now but this son of hers, I really hope he has lots of caring and responsible adults in his life that can give him the support he will need. Sorry to say that SC does not inspire confidence on that front, in my opinion only of course.

 

[katydid23]

It i

I thought it was his son? She couldn’t take his kid.

He is their son.

He has an older daughter from a previous marriage.

 

[Razz]

This one? I only see one comment

KPLC 7 News

Actually, there are 1.3k comments.

 

[gitana1]

Ah. Good point.

This gets closer to pre-planning/premeditation when I think about that.

Even so, he could feel remorse, no?

Yes. I don’t know how premeditated a crime like that would have to be but the baby missing is indeed unique. If it was a family annihilated type situation they usually kill them all.

If it was a couple of rage killings that’s pretty quick to calm down and not still be insane.

If it was an abduction it feels like there’s would be signs of struggle and there’s be a greater chance that someone would’ve heard something or seen something. Surveillance would also come into play or the quick recovery of bodies nearby. It also seems weird that a mother and child would be abducted unless it was specifically for the child. And then if it was I don’t know that we’ve seen a case involving TAKING the mother for the purposes of taking the child. Other cases they just leave the dead body of the mother there or steal the baby and leave the family alive.

If it was mom voluntary missing, she didn’t take her older child. That seems odd. It could happen though. Maybe mom felt she could never separate father and son. I don’t think this is the case but I’m staying open to the possibility. But then we add to that that mom left crucial things behind. Like her car. Her purse. The baby’s things. That doesn’t make sense. That’s what he LE immediately investigating this as possible foul play.

And as others have pointed out, would she do that to her son? Her mother? Her loved ones? Why? Where? How?

The last possibility in entertaining (others may have more) is that mom went nuts and left. A little bit different than voluntary missing because if someone is incapacitated they lack the ability to form intent.

But if she was crazy I feel people would have noticed her and the baby before this, unless she walked into the woods and killed her baby and herself. But how did she get there? Where could she have gone that LE can’t find her? And why leave her son alive? And how would she leave without anyone seeing her? Where could she be?

Hmm. I think other than domestic situation that last one might be higher on my list than outside perp or regular voluntary missing (e.g. minus the psychosis). The fact that suicide is the leading cause of death for post-partum moms and that possibility creeps a bit higher for me.

Then I cycle back to certain things I can’t explain satisfactorily to do with dad. And how the investigators are treating the case.

Ugh. Who was it that stated recently they can’t come up with any one theory that matches all the facts we know of?

 

[missy1974]

Bringing this early article forward again because it mentions a few things people have asked for links of:

“Broussard’s mother told KXAN she’s driving from Louisiana to help search for her daughter and granddaughter.”
(So Heidi’s Mom was not staying with her at the time of her disappearance, she came after)

“In addition to the details provided by police, her friends say online that when Broussard’s husband arrived home, her vehicle, purse and baby bag were all there but the door was wide open and she and the baby were missing. Police have not confirmed that.”
(So door being wide open originated from Facebook and not confirmed)

Image attached shows the Facebook post mentioning door wide open and that the school called at 6. (Image and quotes above allfrom this msm article below).

Police still looking for mom, infant last seen in south Austin

Thank you for this!!! I was wondering where the 'call from the school' came from. The post from her friend also tells me where the "door wide open" comes from. Reading that post, it's a good reminder that punctuation can change the meaning of a sentence. I think she was trying to say that the car door was open (although I don't think it was wide open, I think it was just unlocked). I am not trying to be critical of her, I imagine at the time she posted that she was just trying to get info out and was trying to help. If he got a call from the school, I am surprised that he doesn't mention this in any of the interviews he has done, which makes me question whether that happened or not. JMO

 

[gitana1]

If he was supposed to pick up the boy, why did the school have to call him at 6?

Yes, the school did call at 6 to say no one had picked up the boy. I am pretty sure that she was the person who picked up and dropped off, as she was the stay at home mom at that time.

And in the original reports, it was said that 'she did not pick up her son.'

Does it makes sense that she would leave her diaper bag and purse at home, turn off her phone, and hang out at a neighbours, and never check in with anyone, including her husband? --- For 11 hours she wouldn't check in with him?

That doesn't make sense to me and it seems weird that he didn't have any concerns about it.

You don't have to be especially 'observant' to realise that your son needs to be picked up from school and your wife's car is in the parking lot and she and the baby are are nowhere to be found.

Yup. And that’s big for me. I can’t explain it.

 

[Msskeptic]

Just one of the books is listed for $29 here: Stick and Stone - I don't think $25 for 3 books is crazy - magazines cost $15.

Barnes and Noble price: Stick and Stone|Hardcover

That price was for the hardcover with a CD online. Paperback books, which these were, at a school book fair are dirt cheap. Kids come in with a few dollars and they can get something.

 

[gitana1]

Baby, so fragile at 3 weeks, was dropped during the incident/fight/assault perhaps. Again, unintentional.

Ok. That is possible.