TY says that Terri seemed "defensive."

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Well, if Desiree suspected right off the bat that Terri might have done something to Kyron, and started asking her questions, and if Kaine was coming down on her and blaming her... it's no wonder she was defensive. It's hard not to be when you are being hit from every direction with accusations. I'm sure LE had already questioned her as well. It could be that she was more concerned with herself... not arguing that, but I think she had reason to be defensive. They already blamed her, I saw that within the first few days.
 
And weren't they all staying together at the house those first few days, no way to get away from their accusations.
 
Let's say that TH is 100% factually innocent. She could have felt a lot of guilt, and/or worry that the rest of the family would blame her since Kyron was last under her care, custody, and control.

To top it off, she may have secrets (like the landscaper) that she does not want the rest of the parents to find out about, that she believes have nothing to do with Kryon's disappearance and might even cause suspicion (like the landscaper).

Trouble is, even with that, I don't see how someone who has a significant parental role in raising a child would feel persecuted by the investigators in this situation.

From   http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/persecute
Persecute means:
1. to pursue with harassing or oppressive treatment, esp.because of religion, race, or beliefs; harass persistently.

2. to annoy or trouble persistently.

I would like to be troubled persistently if it would help find a missing child, unless I had something significant to hide. It doesn't mean I would enjoy relinquishing any secrets I had, but relinquish them I would because that would be far less important to me than finding the child.

Also, if I were innocent, I would proclaim that loudly and persistently to anyone who would listen.

I agree. Here's the thing. There is just one thing after another that keeps coming out pointing to guilt, IMO, especially if all is eventually substantiated by LE. It is beginning to remind me of the casey anthony case. The parents made an excuse for each fact that came out as if each one of those facts was in a vacuum. To me, it's the cumulation:
1. She is alleged to have hired a hit.
2. She was the last one to see Kyron.
3. We have yet to see an account of where Th was between 8:45 a.m. and 1:45 p.m. the day Kyron disappeared.
4. She reportedly walked out on a second poly and failed two.
5. She showed defensiveness, in one man's opinion, a man who happens to be an investigator, in a manner that was not normal.
6. The bio-mother's gut is that TH did something.
7. She has refused to speak with investigators of late and hired a famed criminal defense attorney, a step many guilty parties take.
8. Instead of grieving, searching, screaming for help due to the disappearance of her lost son, she reportedly engaged in a sexual exchange with her husband's friend, in the days after her son disappeared.
9. She tried to take her daughter in a secret manner at the moment she probably knew the you know what was about to hit the fan with her husband, instead of directly confronting him and stating she was taking her kid.
10. Her husband filed for divorce and applied for a DV RO stating that LE had provided probable cause that Th was involved in Kyron's disappearance. The temporary RO was granted and not so much as supervised visitation was given to TH with her infant daughter.
11. TH does not seem to be fighting the RO, including the no contact request with her baby girl. This, among all other things, says the most to me. If innocent, she would have zero reason to fear testifying and refuting the allegations in civil court. If innocent, no attorney could persuade her to give up contact with her infant. On the flip side, if guilty, a civil hearing at which she must refute the allegations against her about Kyron, she would incriminate herself. Anything she said or did would be used against her in the criminal investigation and a possible trial. She CANNOT fight the charges if guilty. As a mother, nothing would stop me from fighting the charges and getting my little baby back in my arms, if I was innocent.

Although it's not one thing that can be excused in some manner, that last point is the one thing that, in the absence of anything else, would tell me, as an attorney, she did something. But there is not just one thing. It's a whole, huge bag of stuff that just keeps getting worse.
 
Hmmm....even if TH is not responsible for the disappearance of Kyron, lord knows she has many secrets she would not want others to find out about. I could see her freaking out when Tony said their lives are now public regardless whether she is guilty or not.

On the other hand, what TY said goes contrary to what DY said. If DY immediately suspected TH (as she has said) why wouldn't she confide to her husband? It's the first thing I would do, tell my detective husband that I was convinced TH is involved.

That's all I'm saying because the rest goes against WS rules...

Sometimes saying something out loud makes it all too real. It's something I may not say to my beloved, the person I trust so much, because saying it means my kid is likely gone.
 
The parents made an excuse for each fact that came out as if each one of those facts was in a vacuum. To me, it's the cumulation ... But there is not just one thing. It's a whole, huge bag of stuff that just keeps getting worse.

ITTTA. Seeing the forest, not the trees.
 
bbm

"He always stays very close to his house in the front because he's afraid of not being able to find his house," she [DY] said.

http://www.kval.com/news/97225889.html

I couldn't find any mention at the above link of K not going in the backyard. Just that he was afraid of not being able to find his house when he was out front, so he stays close.

Kyron_Horman_062510_087_1_540x405.jpg


link: http://www.cbsnews.com/2300-504083_162-10003903-87.html?tag=page;next

IMO, the above photo looks like Ky playing with his fishing pole in the backyard.

Just trying to keep the rumors at bay.

Thank you for that. So they mention the front yard but not the back. My mistake. Just as a note, I don't think that is the Horman's current backyard as Terri had a few pics up of the back yard on her FB after they had some work done getting rid of the, are they blackberries that grow wild there? I don't remember seeing any fence, and the lawn didn't look that good :)

I wish he had gotten to go fishing :(

I wonder if they moved to that area for the school district? Said to be one of the best. Seems so isolated for young kids to play with neighbors, no sidewalks for bike riding or skating or whatever.
 
Yes, but LE has not denied what the media is reporting either.

That is why I find it interesting that they felt the need to come out and make a disassociative statement after D&K started airing their grievances with Terri.
 
That is why I find it interesting that they felt the need to come out and make a disassociative statement after D&K started airing their grievances with Terri.

Well, it's touchy but LE very often deny that a suspect is a suspect. That's a good investigative tactic.

ETA:
I have been trained to wade through the chaff to get to the wheat. This statement by LE is chaff, IMO. TH's behavior in relinquishing contact with her little, infant baby girl because she won't answer the allegations in the civil action, that's the wheat.
 
That is why I find it interesting that they felt the need to come out and make a disassociative statement after D&K started airing their grievances with Terri.
Of course they did...they want TH to talk to them. Remember that at the same time LE was telling KH that his wife tried to kill him and advised that he leave with his daughter that TH was saying she felt LE was 'on her side. IMO, LE was using the 'you attract more flies with honey than with vinegar' approach with TH...they wanted her to talk and go without an attorney as long as possible.
 
Of course they did...they want TH to talk to them. Remember that at the same time LE was telling KH that his wife tried to kill him and advised that he leave with his daughter that TH was saying she felt LE was 'on her side. IMO, LE was using the 'you attract more flies with honey than with vinegar' approach with TH...they wanted her to talk and go without an attorney as long as possible.

I think Terri has proven she is pretty much immune to LE's pressure or mind games.
 
Well, it's touchy but LE very often deny that a suspect is a suspect. That's a good investigative tactic.

ETA:
I have been trained to wade through the chaff to get to the wheat. This statement by LE is chaff, IMO. TH's behavior in relinquishing contact with her little, infant baby girl because she won't answer the allegations in the civil action, that's the wheat.


and it must be something pretty dang significant b/c no judge is going to take away all parenting time from a sahm to a baby unless she would have to admit to some pretty heinous behavior. Certainly not having an affair, drinking, drugs, etc. She's still get at least supervised visitation imo.

And it sure doesn't look like she's going to be cleared any time soon. So it's not likely she's waiting for that so she can get full or joint parenting time back, while avoiding testifying now about some other parenting issues that would stick with her after she's cleared. And that is the ONLY other thing I can think of.
 
Terri may have been feeling very defensive, depending upon how the other parents were addressing her, since Desiree has said that she suspected Terri from the first moment. Not sure how to take this. I do not take everything Tony says as gospel just because he is a detective. He is also human and involved in Kyron's life. His impressions have to be taken with a certain amount of knowledge that emotion plays into it.

I can certainly understand Terri being on the defensive.

Didn't Tony make a point to say that LE told him he would not be given any inside information just because he was in law enforcement?

I thought I read or saw a video where he said that.

They may tell the families of their suspicions but I don't think LE has divulged any of the actual evidence to any of them.

IMO
 
I agree. Here's the thing. There is just one thing after another that keeps coming out pointing to guilt, IMO, especially if all is eventually substantiated by LE. It is beginning to remind me of the casey anthony case. The parents made an excuse for each fact that came out as if each one of those facts was in a vacuum. To me, it's the cumulation:
1. She is alleged to have hired a hit.
2. She was the last one to see Kyron.
3. We have yet to see an account of where Th was between 8:45 a.m. and 1:45 p.m. the day Kyron disappeared.
4. She reportedly walked out on a second poly and failed two.
5. She showed defensiveness, in one man's opinion, a man who happens to be an investigator, in a manner that was not normal.
6. The bio-mother's gut is that TH did something.
7. She has refused to speak with investigators of late and hired a famed criminal defense attorney, a step many guilty parties take.
8. Instead of grieving, searching, screaming for help due to the disappearance of her lost son, she reportedly engaged in a sexual exchange with her husband's friend, in the days after her son disappeared.
9. She tried to take her daughter in a secret manner at the moment she probably knew the you know what was about to hit the fan with her husband, instead of directly confronting him and stating she was taking her kid.
10. Her husband filed for divorce and applied for a DV RO stating that LE had provided probable cause that Th was involved in Kyron's disappearance. The temporary RO was granted and not so much as supervised visitation was given to TH with her infant daughter.
11. TH does not seem to be fighting the RO, including the no contact request with her baby girl. This, among all other things, says the most to me. If innocent, she would have zero reason to fear testifying and refuting the allegations in civil court. If innocent, no attorney could persuade her to give up contact with her infant. On the flip side, if guilty, a civil hearing at which she must refute the allegations against her about Kyron, she would incriminate herself. Anything she said or did would be used against her in the criminal investigation and a possible trial. She CANNOT fight the charges if guilty. As a mother, nothing would stop me from fighting the charges and getting my little baby back in my arms, if I was innocent.

Although it's not one thing that can be excused in some manner, that last point is the one thing that, in the absence of anything else, would tell me, as an attorney, she did something. But there is not just one thing. It's a whole, huge bag of stuff that just keeps getting worse.

Out of EVERYTHING that you said here (which is an awesome summation, BTW) this is the thing that speaks loudest to me. Thank you for an amazing post. :applause::applause::applause::applause:
 
<snip>

Kyron looks happy in the pictures, not mistreated. TMH is taking the pictures most of the time, especially the one where he is eating lunch, he is looking straight at her, smiling, happy, not fearful. I have served lunch to my children that didn't look that well organized or the table and kitchen that clean. I think we live in a clean house but I have warned my kids at times that the debris was bordering on a news crew showing up and declaring that "people in _________ live in filth and unsanitary conditions, film at eleven". Nothing about this case is clear and ordinary and I have to have faith that the sheriff and the FBI are making progress.

<snip>

SBM

O/T, but I was raised in that house. We put up a pretty good front though and nobody suspected. (Not at all taking you to task for joking with your kids, as an adult I joked with my siblings that we were gonna end up on the Oprah show because of Mom's house. But unfortunately that kind of thing is all too real for more people than you know.) I didn't fear my mom, and looked happy in pictures, and she is a rampant narcissist who verbally and emotionally abused us. Not saying we know anything at all about how Kyron was treated, on camera or off. :twocents: MOO, YMMV, and all that jazz.
 
I'm not sure she could put up an effective fight against the RO; how can she prove she did NOT try to hire someone to kill her husband? Her lawyer probably advised her to wait until her name is cleared, if it ever is. But I'm just not sure how one fights a case when it is a matter of a so-called "he said, she said."
 
In re: Not contesting the petition to keep K away from Terri.....has anyone even bothered to give her the wherewithal to understand that she was on a spiral and right now, contesting anything would mean explaining a lot of things she herself doesn't understand (like, say, hooking up with an immigrant landscaper and then a friend of her husband, and well, lots of other things) and realizing the court would simply say to her "sorry Terri, you're a ho and you need to get yourself on track." and without having to go through the court to realize that, has begun what she can to get where she must be to be the mother she HAS to be for K?

Cuz I do.
 
I'm not sure she could put up an effective fight against the RO; how can she prove she did NOT try to hire someone to kill her husband? Her lawyer probably advised her to wait until her name is cleared, if it ever is. But I'm just not sure how one fights a case when it is a matter of a so-called "he said, she said."

That is why I think LE has some strong evidence in that regard. And TH would know exactly what that would be. I really think they have enough to arrest TH right now, but it is better in the long run to wait a bit.
 
If LE has solid evidence that the MFH plot is true, perhaps it is not exactly safe for Kaine for Terri not to be arrested, simply for the convenience of LE. I know she is being watched, but nothing is 100%. If something were to happen to Kaine, LE would have a few questions to answer.
 
Well, it's touchy but LE very often deny that a suspect is a suspect. That's a good investigative tactic.

ETA:
I have been trained to wade through the chaff to get to the wheat. This statement by LE is chaff, IMO. TH's behavior in relinquishing contact with her little, infant baby girl because she won't answer the allegations in the civil action, that's the wheat.

I have a question which you may well not be able to answer. But I hope you will give it a shot.

Pretend you are in Mr Houze's shoes. You have a client who has demonstrated a lack of good judgment. You know that her story for the day her stepson went missing is obviously suspected by LE to be false. You are looking ahead to the possibility of your client being put on trial in the matter of that child's disappearance.

Would you advise your client to testify under oath in a RO hearing in a matter that does not directly affect the outcome of a possible criminal case?

What if that client argued passionately for going ahead and testifying? Would you let a client's emotional reaction change or bias the legal advice you gave?

I'm not a lawyer at all and my answers would be that I would not want her to testify under oath at the RO hearing, I would do my utmost to dissuade her and it wouldn't matter how emotionally or passionately she pled to do so.

I know when I got a divorce, I had huge respect for my attorney. She has argued (and won) in front of the Supreme Court, she has huge amounts of experience, several of her cases have set precedent in state courts, etc. And I saw the effect of her withering glance!

There were times when she "advised" me to do something or not to do something. I put advised in quote marks because it was rather akin to a five star general advising a recruit fresh out of base camp that his shoes need better polishing. No order needed, merely the faintest hint of direction was all that was necessary.

She's a terrific human being, as great as she is a great attorney.

Now, maybe she and I had a very unusual attorney/client relationship but I don't think so. Then again, what do I know?
 

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