Recovered/Located UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon & Newborn, left a broken down car on motorway, Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023

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ifindedout said:
I think they do not want to be found, and I can think of a good reason why. I've known for a long time that social class is a very big deal in the UK. She is from an upperclass background, and he is not. IMO it's very likely that her family, among other people, will not be accepting of their relationship.

MOO
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It isn't a big deal. Maybe in the 1900s.

They don't want to be found because there's a high likelihood they aren't going to like what happens.
 
Again, I can't believe they've disappeared from London CCTV on Bethnal Green Road. I'm sure the police would have leads on where they went next, they just don't want to tell us. Better to let the public know about shopping in Argos than the location of a doss house, perhaps?

The police seem to be many days behind. The investigation was handed over to Essex Police on Monday 9th after they were confirme sightings in Colchester/Harwich on the 6/7th, and handed over to the Met on the 12th after confirmed sightings in London on the 7th.

East Ham has an Argos, and there are a few that are much closer than Whitehall but maybe the Whitehall Superstore had all the things they needed?
 
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Can't figure from the photo if CM is wearing a hood/scarf or hijab?
Think someone mentioned previously religious dress such as a burka would be an ideal disguise.

Imagine they're sourcing most of their food & supplies from street markets / small shops where cash is not unusual.
But needed to head to argos for the larger supplies
Agree MGs plastic bags are bizarre & draw attention. Seems most logical that they are ruined & he's trying to keep feet dry. Which suggests moneys running out.
I guess devil's advocate, could also be that they still have lots of money & he is trying to disguise a very distinctive (expensive) pair as they're entering high CCTV area.

On clothing, CM doesn't look like someone who has been living outside in this picture JMO, her clothing has changed from the long heavy coat layers in earlier pics to quite lightweight, it seems. Ankles exposed by the looks of it, between leggings & pumps? It's the sort of outfit this time of year you'd wear just to nip to the shops for example.
Perhaps just wishful thinking from me that they haven't been sleeping rough in this freezing weather

Lastly, I don't think they have another vehicle they are driving (parked up, sleeping or storage, maybe) . Buying one in cash is easy enough, but insuring, taxing it when you're on a nationwide watch list is impossible.
Ofc your car still runs & drives, but getting past ANPR cameras for long without getting pulled over is unlikely. & once that siren goes behind for a routine doc check, its game over

All just MOO
 
BaronessWombat said:
Again, I can't believe they've disappeared from London CCTV on Bethnal Green Road. I'm sure the police would have leads on where they went next, they just don't want to tell us.
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<rsbm>

I've been thinking exactly the same thing. If cctv shows them leaving heading up Brick Lane away from Whitechapel and towards Bethnal Green, then I'd be very surprised if there isn't further cctv showing where they went next - or if there isn't, then that in itself would give a strong indication of where they might have gone, you'd think. (JMO)

It's hard to resist the lure of the TfL/traffic cam archive but given the hour I think I'm going to leave it to the Met's specially trained officers. Maybe tomorrow. ;)
 
Puzzles said:
Give themselves up?
To whom?
For what reason?
Two adults and their newborn moving freely through the world, as is their right.
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<modsnip - rude> there is every indication that authorities are deeply deeply concerned for the safety of their newborn baby. While we don't know everything, what we do know fully points to authorities having very good reason to consider this an incredibly high risk situation. Especially combined with the birth, avoidance of medical care and the current weather.

<modsnip -being disparaging to other members> the main factor in how a MP investigation is delt with is risk. People go missing every day, children go missing, run away or are spirited off during custody disputes (including SS disputes) all the time. The police do not spend a fraction of the time, money or resources on 99% of those investigations. They are in this one, and they started to do so before they by their own hand made it high profile.

Not only that, note the gap between the last sightings and the local forces involved. They were in Essex 5th - 7th then London, Essex didn't officially take the investigation until the 9th and the Met didn't take it for a week - on the 12th before immediately and publicly putting hundreds of officers on the case. While there would be some time spent playing catch up. The known investigation timeline is shortened by the lag between investigation and release of information to the public.

<modsnip - speculating negatively about law enforcement>

CJS83 said:
Can't figure from the photo if CM is wearing a hood/scarf or hijab?
Think someone mentioned previously religious dress such as a burka would be an ideal disguise.

Imagine they're sourcing most of their food & supplies from street markets / small shops where cash is not unusual.
But needed to head to argos for the larger supplies
Agree MGs plastic bags are bizarre & draw attention. Seems most logical that they are ruined & he's trying to keep feet dry. Which suggests moneys running out.
I guess devil's advocate, could also be that they still have lots of money & he is trying to disguise a very distinctive (expensive) pair as they're entering high CCTV area.

On clothing, CM doesn't look like someone who has been living outside in this picture JMO, her clothing has changed from the long heavy coat layers in earlier pics to quite lightweight, it seems. Ankles exposed by the looks of it, between leggings & pumps? It's the sort of outfit this time of year you'd wear just to nip to the shops for example.
Perhaps just wishful thinking from me that they haven't been sleeping rough in this freezing weather

Lastly, I don't think they have another vehicle they are driving (parked up, sleeping or storage, maybe) . Buying one in cash is easy enough, but insuring, taxing it when you're on a nationwide watch list is impossible.
Ofc your car still runs & drives, but getting past ANPR cameras for long without getting pulled over is unlikely. & once that siren goes behind for a routine doc check, its game over

All just MOO
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As for CMs clothes.

These images were from 7th Jan still I think. I can't remember the temperature exactly but it was before the temperature really dropped (again.) All other photos had her in her coat so this might not even be a total change of clothes.

The bags on his shoes draw more attention than any type of trainer on CCTV. They seem to have some money left, I don't think he'd walk around in leaking shoes when dry super cheap shoes would be a few quid. I reckon he's got expensive trainers on and he's not hiding them from CCTV so much as they're spending time in rough places and he's trying not to advertise they have money (or even just avoid someone straight robbing him for his trainers.)

I think she is wearing a COVID Mask and some sort of hooded scarf. It could be part of some islamic-dress based-disguise I suppose, but equally it could be a cheap thermal layer out of the Argos catalogue for £2.99. It could also be a normal black beanie with earflaps or a simple black hoodie hood that's been pulled up around a light coloured scarf - and the bad quality CCTV makes it harder to distinguish anything but block colours.

It's not like in this day and age a couple, especially a couple with a newborn, would be looked at as all that strange for taking the precaution of wearing facemasks.

<modsnip - no source link for image>

As for AMPR. There are a lot of cameras coming out of London, (can't provide any sort of link for that obviously since they aren't advertised, so let's say hypothetically speaking) especially around the Low Emission Zone and the M25. However there are a limited number of traffic police and a lot of cars, imagine how many get flagged by AMPR a day. Buying a cash car and driving it without insurance out of London (which would be far from the only option not to be tied to the car on paper) would probably get pinged by AMPR, but IMO the chances of actually getting stopped by police as a random uninsured unregistered car, during a single journey is statistically going to be pretty low.
 
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Colchester 6th/7th
1674617162262.png
London 7th
1674617142067.png

Newest Released - 7th - near Adler Street in Whitechapel.
1674617507455.png
1674618094013.png
1674618393115.png

Looking at this I don't think either of them have changed their clothes much at all at this point.

I think she found a hat and some COVID masks, then took off the recognisable coat and scarf and stuffed in the sunflower bag for life, you can see it in the last image.

He's zipped up his coat over the body warmer but the green accents are the same. Possibly the trousers are the same as well, under different light. His shoes look a bit like workman boots in some images, but also have white around the bottom which suggests trainers or converse type shoes, honestly it's hard to tell. Maybe he feels it's the main bit of colour on the released CCTV and wants to hide it, maybe he doesn't want nice suede/leather to get wrecked, maybe it looks expensive. - Pretty clear where he got the bags from for it.

Also, while I get why the police are releasing this info - paying with large sums of cash tends to stand out. If they are hiding in rough parts of town or even homeless/camping (I hope that's as unlikely as it seems.) The fact it's been put around everywhere that they are carrying substantial cash is... Well it wouldn't be making their situation any safer that's for sure.
 
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<modsnip - quoted post removed>

Not in the UK. Social services/local authroirities are very quick to put homeless families into some sort of emergency accomodation, and children into foster care if needed. I'm sure there are some, but having children will get you housed, which is why this family will stick out in the homeless community with a baby. (Anedoctal evidence from a school secratary, and the local newspapers are full of families who have a roof over their head but are in "unsuitable" housing)
 
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Also as a pregnant woman she would have got acccomodation from Greenwich Council when she was evicted from the Eltham property. (Some newspaper reports say she was evicted?)

england.shelter.org.uk

Emergency housing from the council - Shelter England

Emergency housing is accommodation where you can stay while your local council looks into your housing situation if you are homeless.
england.shelter.org.uk england.shelter.org.uk
 
Is anyone watching bbc news this morning? They did a piece just there and lead officer was speaking, he said along the lines of cm/mg don't believe authorities should be involved in the care of themselves, or their child. And they've been living a nomadic lifestyle since September. They are not sure if the baby went full term.
Source bbc.co.uk
 
RusselSprout said:
Is anyone watching bbc news this morning? They did a piece just there and lead officer was speaking, he said along the lines of cm/mg don't believe authorities should be involved in the care of themselves, or their child. And they've been living a nomadic lifestyle since September. They are not sure if the baby went full term.
Source bbc.co.uk
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Link please? I searched and cannot find it
 
RusselSprout said:
Is anyone watching bbc news this morning? They did a piece just there and lead officer was speaking, he said along the lines of cm/mg don't believe authorities should be involved in the care of themselves, or their child. And they've been living a nomadic lifestyle since September. They are not sure if the baby went full term.
Source bbc.co.uk
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Thanks for sharing. We have it bang on the nose, then! Wonder if that officer should have let it slip.

They certainly need to change how they are speaking to CM/MG because it won't be fostering confidence in the slightest.
 
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