UK UK - Corrie McKeague, 23, Bury St Edmunds, 24 September 2016 #5

[MelmothTheLost]

Yes, you can go on holiday and bump into someone you KNOW (albeit rarely) but what's the chances of looking at CTV of grainy images of 23 locals (which you can bet they are - it's isn't a tourist area) and that are hard to see properly, and suddenly going "I know that person! They live two streets from me 95 miles away!"

come on....

And yet it does happen. When I was at uni I was in hall with a female student. After graduation we both went our separate ways and lost touch. A few years later my partner and I moved to a city in East Anglia. One day as I was wandering around the market I saw a familiar face. "Brenda? Brenda! Good Lord, what are you doing here?" It turned out that Brenda had done a post-grad teaching certificate and was now teaching geography at a local school. We hadn't seen each other or had contact for 6 or 7 years until that day.

For all we know the person of interest might be Cousin Barry who moved to BSE after his divorce, an ex-boyfriend who moved there after we broke up, or a neighbour who moved away from our street 5 years earlier whom we might recognise if given a chance, even if we do still live in Swansea.

How many times do we say here, in connection with a UID case, that it only takes ONE critical person to see the reconstruction for a very old UID case to be solved? Yet for some reason the police are not showing the image of the vehicle or person they want to identify to the public who might recognise it.

 

[soundssuspicious]

The people they want to identify are wanted in connection with what they may or may not have seen that night, and both are important. If you put their pictures out for millions in public and one person is recognised on social media, then the name will spread via social media who mistakenly think this person is a suspect. No one has been named as a suspect, the police haven't even said they have yet got firm evidence of any crime.

There is a CenterParks near BSE, I think it's the Elveden one. There were people from places like London holidaying there the week/end Corrie went missing. I doubt that one of them would have been clubbing in BSE that night or walking around between 3.30 and 8am, but there were people around BSE who were from out of town.

Then the degrees of separation thing. I wasn't claiming I'm Corrie's best mate or anything silly like that, but I had no idea I knew someone who knew someone, and it does bring it home that we do have these networks and connections. Social media is a valid point, some people have hundreds or thousands of 'friends' on things like Facebook and they could recognise a picture. It's definitely not the first step to take to put all those 23 people out on national TV as "wanted persons", but these are valid points. I wouldn't be surprised at a local TV appeal (not sure which is the region for Suffolk?) if all 23 don't get ID'd from the pod this week.

Yes, but WHY aren't they not just putting the footage on Facebook, why aren't the POLICE putting it on TV?

The police ALWAYS release footage of people they're seeking - even if it's to eliminate them.

The fact the police are NOT doing that tells you they don't deem it necessary.

 

[Tillymint]

And yet it does happen. When I was at uni I was in hall with a female student. After graduation we both went our separate ways and lost touch. A few years later my partner and I moved to a city in East Anglia. One day as I was wandering around the market I saw a familiar face. "Brenda? Brenda! Good Lord, what are you doing here?" It turned out that Brenda had done a post-grad teaching certificate and was now teaching geography at a local school. We hadn't seen each other or had contact for 6 or 7 years until that day.

For all we know the person of interest might be Cousin Barry who moved to BSE after his divorce, an ex-boyfriend who moved there after we broke up, or a neighbour who moved away from our street 5 years earlier whom we might recognise if given a chance, even if we do still live in Swansea.

How many times do we say here, in connection with a UID case, that it only takes ONE critical person to see the reconstruction for a very old UID case to be solved? Yet for some reason the police are not showing the image of the vehicle or person they want to identify to the public who might recognise it.

Absolutely, Melmoth! Coincidences do happen and I think it is worth anyone checking out the footage if they're in Bury anyway. I completely understand why they wouldn't go straight to a national broadcast yet, perhaps that will happen if they don't get the answers they're hoping for this week.

 

[bbyblueeyez]

I have to agree with Amonet about the cctv footage there are hotels and bed and breakfasts in bury someone could of come from anywhere and stayed over and could be on that cctv. It only takes one person to spot them and it could lead anywhere...... As for AWOL can I just say when my son went AWOL he didn't get in trouble if it is really exceptional circumstances then they do not get arrested or anything like that it also is not on my sons record. I would of said yes he would never go AWOL hes not like that and he did but he couldn't keep of a certain social media by logging in and that 1 friend who he was so close with that's the only way we found him by the way. He never contacted myself or his sister and him and his sister are close he never contacted his army pals either ..... I personally don't believe Corrie is AWOL x

 

[MelmothTheLost]

Ping stops "0420"
Phone dies "0800"

Where is the biggest water "half an hour" away (or less)

Virtually nothing that could be termed "big water".

A few scattered small reservoirs not easily accessible from public roads.

The Lark flows from SE of BSE northwestwards through BM and on to join the Great Ouse just north of Ely. The Great Ouse flows northwards to the Wash at Kings Lynn. However, the Lark, being a lowland river, tends to flow very slowly and gentle and I'm not sure I'd want to risk dumping a body in it.

The other alternative would be the series of lakes at Lackford Lakes Nature Reserve and West Stow Country Park. They look to me like former gravel workings which have been flooded to create a habitat for birds. It looks to me as though there are a couple of points which might permit 24 hour vehicle access, but they either lead to private houses or businesses. There is one which seems to give direct access from the road to one of the lakes but it looks like a classic dogging spot so carries the risk of a body drop being witnessed (small side road at Letch Moor, just off the A1101).

 

[soundssuspicious]

Virtually nothing that could be termed "big water".

A few scattered small reservoirs not easily accessible from public roads.

The Lark flows from SE of BSE northwestwards through BM and on to join the Great Ouse just north of Ely. The Great Ouse flows northwards to the Wash at Kings Lynn. However, the Lark, being a lowland river, tends to flow very slowly and gentle and I'm not sure I'd want to risk dumping a body in it.

The other alternative would be the series of lakes at Lackford Lakes Nature Reserve and West Stow Country Park. They look to me like former gravel workings which have been flooded to create a habitat for birds. It looks to me as though there are a couple of points which might permit 24 hour vehicle access, but they either lead to private houses or businesses. There is one which seems to give direct access from the road to one of the lakes but it looks like a classic dogging spot so carries the risk of a body drop being witnessed (small side road at Letch Moor, just off the A1101).

Bodies come come to the surface after about 2/3 weeks due to the gases...

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

I'm not in BSE, I am from Fife. I think there's quite a few locals on here, I'm not sure who posted that though

My apologies. It was PilgrimsPrayer who didn't think there were. Sorry for the mix up.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

Bodies come come to the surface after about 2/3 weeks due to the gases...

Unless they are trapped underwater, such as caught on debris.

Also, I've often wondered whether the floating phase of decomposition in water can be foiled by stabbing through the abdomen so that gasses escape slowly instead of accumulating. Anyone know anything about this?

 

[MidsummersDay]

Ping stops "0420"
Phone dies "0800"

Where is the biggest water "half an hour" away (or less)

Ping stops BSE 0430
Ping starts BM 0458
Ping stops BM 0800

 

[Mel F]

I have to agree with Amonet about the cctv footage there are hotels and bed and breakfasts in bury someone could of come from anywhere and stayed over and could be on that cctv. It only takes one person to spot them and it could lead anywhere...... As for AWOL can I just say when my son went AWOL he didn't get in trouble if it is really exceptional circumstances then they do not get arrested or anything like that it also is not on my sons record. I would of said yes he would never go AWOL hes not like that and he did but he couldn't keep of a certain social media by logging in and that 1 friend who he was so close with that's the only way we found him by the way. He never contacted myself or his sister and him and his sister are close he never contacted his army pals either ..... I personally don't believe Corrie is AWOL x

So pleased you found your Son. How long was he missing for before he was found? What is it that makes you think Corrie is not AWOL when you didn't think your Son would have gone missing?

 

[MidsummersDay]

Hang on a minute - why do you think Tony is so intelligent? If he's already tripped himself up several times, then he's not as intelligent as he'd like to appear.

Wouldn't it be a bombshell if this was all a farce? You can't rule ANYTHING out. As you say, family are family, and if Corrie has gone AWOL and his family are aware of that, they won't snitch on him. And whilst I'm not casting aspersions....the prospect of lots of fund money rolling in is the icing on the cake

Uncle Tony is a former Intelligence Officer with second echelon career ahead of him. Reverse psychology is one of the mainstays of this trade.
His mother is a serving Police Officer with a respectable career.
Corrie is a serving RAF Airman at the start of his career.
The funding gathered so far has gone towards SULSAR and voluntary services to support the search.

I doubt a great deal that all that support mechanism given their backgrounds, reputations and pensions would be put at stake if it was orchestrated.

They ain't paint balling here and this ain't a Shannon Mathews scenario.

 

[Mel F]

I think thats hats the best way to go AWOL - when it appears it'd be the worst time to vanish. Make sure it look more genuine that something happened to him. Nicola is very keen to mention that Corrie was getting paid the next week....almost too keen in my opinion. How does anyone's know if he'd got money hidden somewhere? That's what people do when they want to vanish...they leave their stuff behind but have a secret stash somewhere.

I completely agree. It doesn't mean it wasn't carefully planned. Surely RAF are trained to be cctv aware. Corrie would know the area and where the cameras are if he had planned this. His clothing was obvious, he got himself noticed that night. He could have stashed a change of clothes. Perhaps it was Corrie leaving in the dark clothing. 5 minutes would be perfect timing to have got changed and then leave to an area such as Looms Lane where he might have been picked up unnoticed where there is said to be no cctv. Perfect timing for a 3.30am arrangement. Why did the Police want to trace the 3 teenagers seen at 4.20am and yet this person in dark clothing would be the obvious witness to be calling forward as surely he/she must have seen Corrie. I just don't get it!!!

 

[MidsummersDay]

I completely agree. It doesn't mean it wasn't carefully planned. Surely RAF are trained to be cctv aware. Corrie would know the area and where the cameras are if he had planned this. His clothing was obvious, he got himself noticed that night. He could have stashed a change of clothes. Perhaps it was Corrie leaving in the dark clothing. 5 minutes would be perfect timing to have got changed and then leave to an area such as Looms Lane where he might have been picked up unnoticed where there is said to be no cctv. Perfect timing for a 3.30am arrangement. Why did the Police want to trace the 3 teenagers seen at 4.20am and yet this person in dark clothing would be the obvious witness to be calling forward as surely he/she must have seen Corrie. I just don't get it!!!

I honestly can't see this AWOL thing happening. The esprit de corps of RAF members is strong, that's fact. Someone who wanted to go AWOL would have to be a hell of a lot 'greyer' than Corrie. It's a smaller Arm than the other Services and generally a happier place to be. Besides that, Corrie's social list, his contact list and his friends network are extensive. He's flamboyant, he's loud, he's a 'one man army'. He hasn't got the type of characteristics that would be conducive to anyone who wanted to disappear....even momentarily. He was noticed a few hours after 'roll call' as being missing. That says something. His family are tight and in high profile civil service positions. His Uncle Tony is exceptionally vocal and public to say he's an Int guy. That alone demonstrates the 'above and beyond' approach to getting him back alive.

I just don't subscribe to the AWOL thing (at the moment). I'm leaning more towards a rendezvous with a known third party who he'd had prior contact with and who lives north west and 15+ miles away....that's gone wrong.

 

[suzyjackson]

Yes, but WHY aren't they not just putting the footage on Facebook, why aren't the POLICE putting it on TV?

The police ALWAYS release footage of people they're seeking - even if it's to eliminate them.

The fact the police are NOT doing that tells you they don't deem it necessary.

If the police don't think it's necessary I hope they aren't going to the trouble and expense of setting up the hub/pod again just to satisfy a clamour from the facebook group or family.

I don't think we can know if they ALWAYS release footage of people they are seeking simply for the logical reason that we don't know about the ones they don't tell us about but certainly my local force often puts CCTV images on their facebook page of people they want to identify

 

[suzyjackson]

Unless they are trapped underwater, such as caught on debris.

Also, I've often wondered whether the floating phase of decomposition in water can be foiled by stabbing through the abdomen so that gasses escape slowly instead of accumulating. Anyone know anything about this?

Bodies being tangled under water is common and then there's deliberate weighting. Alice Gross wasn't found for several weeks IIRC

 

[rogerthelodger]

Virtually nothing that could be termed "big water".

A few scattered small reservoirs not easily accessible from public roads.

The Lark flows from SE of BSE northwestwards through BM and on to join the Great Ouse just north of Ely. The Great Ouse flows northwards to the Wash at Kings Lynn. However, the Lark, being a lowland river, tends to flow very slowly and gentle and I'm not sure I'd want to risk dumping a body in it.

The other alternative would be the series of lakes at Lackford Lakes Nature Reserve and West Stow Country Park. They look to me like former gravel workings which have been flooded to create a habitat for birds. It looks to me as though there are a couple of points which might permit 24 hour vehicle access, but they either lead to private houses or businesses. There is one which seems to give direct access from the road to one of the lakes but it looks like a classic dogging spot so carries the risk of a body drop being witnessed (small side road at Letch Moor, just off the A1101).

If water were the case there is the possibility of the Weir at Icklingham, this is located down a long track in the middle of nowhere..and off the Mildenhall Road midway between Fiveways and Bury.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

If the police don't think it's necessary I hope they aren't going to the trouble and expense of setting up the hub/pod again just to satisfy a clamour from the facebook group or family.

I don't think we can know if they ALWAYS release footage of people they are seeking simply for the logical reason that we don't know about the ones they don't tell us about but certainly my local force often puts CCTV images on their facebook page of people they want to identify

I have just read this piece from the BBC about the Barking serial killer: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-38045742

Some interesting details about how the Police conducted the investigation and dealt with the families that on the surface seem to mirror aspects of this case like how one family had to do their own investigation and fight for the CCTV footage to be released which was subsequently seen by a local Barking Police officer and SP got identified and arrested.

If the Police in this case do have good reasons for not releasing the CCTV is there something they can say to reassure the public?

I hope the CCTV pod isn't being done just to appease the family given how much noise there has been around lack of resources.

 

[bbyblueeyez]

Hello Mel F my son was missing 8 days he left his camp at the weekend we didn't even no he had leave ... I believe Corrie isn't Awol as even the most trusted friend would not allow it to go on this long and I don't believe he wouldn't tell anyone my son is same age as Corrie also he didn't comment on social media but he logged in to look this was picked up by police.... I really didn't think my son would go missing I thought we had a very open relationship he told me things before and we are close but obviously the problem my son had he felt he couldn't he wouldn't even tell his mates at base but he did go to a close friend. I don't care who you are how much you trust someone it will always slip when your family are in turmoil xx

 

[MelmothTheLost]

If water were the case there is the possibility of the Weir at Icklingham, this is located down a long track in the middle of nowhere..and off the Mildenhall Road midway between Fiveways and Bury.

Hmm, dunno. I don't think I would trust the flow of the Lark, especially after a fairly dry summer. I would be tempted to drive through Barton Mills, discarding the phone into the trees along the roadside, and on to the Great Ouse. The Lark joins the Great Ouse in a very isolated spot apart from one farmhouse. Other than a burial in one of the stretches of Thetford Forest, this would be a tempting place. It's barely 25 miles from this point to where the Great Ouse enters the Wash, so a body might well be out at sea within 24 hours.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place...0x4787f2f2352e3fb6!8m2!3d52.326903!4d0.597122

 

[MidsummersDay]

Hmm, dunno. I don't think I would trust the flow of the Lark, especially after a fairly dry summer. I would be tempted to drive through Barton Mills, discarding the phone into the trees along the roadside, and on to the Great Ouse. The Lark joins the Great Ouse in a very isolated spot apart from one farmhouse. Other than a burial in one of the stretches of Thetford Forest, this would be a tempting place. It's barely 25 miles from this point to where the Great Ouse enters the Wash, so a body might well be out at sea within 24 hours.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place...0x4787f2f2352e3fb6!8m2!3d52.326903!4d0.597122

This is presuming that the potential perpetrater has the muscular physique to be able to dispose of a 5'10" heavy body. That suggests a man as a female wouldn't necessarily measure up to him in strength or physical attributes. I would have thought a woman (if it is a woman) coming from a club at 0330 would be dressed in nice clothes and not rigger boots, jeans and a jumper. Heels and muddy river banks or dense undergrowth are not a good mix.