UK UK - Corrie McKeague, 23, Bury St Edmunds, 24 September 2016 #5

[MidsummersDay]

Actually Melmoth, looking back at my comment I made to your quote, that's not a bad point I made. What female in there right mind would drive into the Bondhu with a more muscular man if they hardly new each other? This is providing a vehicle was definitely involved and a female was definitely involved!

Additionally,if we're thinking that Corrie was with his phone then the area of suspicion would have to be within a 3-5km radius (approx) of BM mast.

I think we need to review the possible chain of events after the 'left in a vehicle' theory...

 

[MelmothTheLost]

This is presuming that the potential perpetrater has the muscular physique to be able to dispose of a 5'10" heavy body. That suggests a man as a female wouldn't necessarily measure up to him in strength or physical attributes. I would have thought a woman (if it is a woman) coming from a club at 0330 would be dressed in nice clothes and not rigger boots, jeans and a jumper. Heels and muddy river banks or dense undergrowth are not a good mix.

Given the effective disappearance so far of the presumed body, I've never seriously had a woman in the frame as an attacker. Certainly not one who might have been dolled up for a night out. Though a fit, strong female could probably manage a fireman's lift of Corrie if she'd had appropriate training, eg in the military or fire service.

We have obvioiusly been considering the possibility that whatever happened to Corrie was not an accident and that he might have been targetted for whatever reason. If that is the case we must assume that his assailant had throught through disposing of him well in advance, so scouting out a place like the one where the Lark meets the Great Ouse beforehand using OS maps or Google maps must be very likely. This is why I think a spot such as this is worth considering. It's quiet, isolated and allows easy vehicle access to a dump point. Yes, it would require heaving the body over the (relatively low) parapet of the road bridge or lugging it across a few yards of grass verge. However this doesn't seem much more difficult than parking in a quiet bit of Thetford Forest and dragging a body into the trees, especially if one then had to dig a shallow grave and conceal it.

The downside to the Great Ouse disposal is that even if the body made it out to sea at the Wash, longshore drift would keep it fairly close into the coast of Norfolk and then down to Suffolk and Essex. There is therefore a considerable risk of it coming ashore and being found and eventually identified. But by then there would be no forensic evidence in respect of the killer.

 

[jessie]

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/11343093/CM_Podcast_0311_Transcript.txt

Did anyone else that read Tony's interview (above) take away from it that Corrie may be experimenting (sexually), so the Barton Mills destination by choice is a definite possibility?

Thanks for this link to Tony's interview I'd not seen it before.

I think the conversation where they discuss the CCTV cameras is interesting. That the family themselves visited nearby premises and obtained private CCTV footage where available.

I wonder if this is the footage that will be shown in the POD? It would account for the comments on the poor quality of the images and lack of distinguishing features. I also wonder if work has been done to enhance what they have - anyone know if it's possible to truly enhance poor quality CCTV ?

 

[Dcflag]

If we assumed he had his phone the whole time it doesn't necessarily point to the immediate ping vicinity. The person could live in the area, the crime if any could have taken place in a property. Once the phone is off that leaves it wide open for Corrie to be anywhere.

I'd be surprised if you would dispose of a phone separate from a body purely because it opens up another way to get caught. I couldn't rule out that the person has kept the phone either.

you can't definitively say any crime was committed on that early Saturday morning.

This is all opinion and speculation of course, without knowing the motivations behind it we can't say. If there was an intention to kill then maybe it is a little more thought out on where he would be. That's assuming there's been a crime at all, could it still be possible he left a meeting and had an accident getting home? Should the person have been married that would be good reason to be hesitant about coming forward about the meeting. It may also be why it's still perceived to be a mystery, if the police know he left in a vehicle but that person left him alive and unharmed? I admit it's a long shot but worth a mention.

 

[Dcflag]

Thanks for this link to Tony's interview I'd not seen it before.

I think the conversation where they discuss the CCTV cameras is interesting. That the family themselves visited nearby premises and obtained private CCTV footage where available.

I wonder if this is the footage that will be shown in the POD? It would account for the comments on the poor quality of the images and lack of distinguishing features. I also wonder if work has been done to enhance what they have - anyone know if it's possible to truly enhance poor quality CCTV ?

Surely you can even a small bit. People restore old home movies and photography don't they?

 

[rogerthelodger]

If the police don't think it's necessary I hope they aren't going to the trouble and expense of setting up the hub/pod again just to satisfy a clamour from the facebook group or family.

I don't think we can know if they ALWAYS release footage of people they are seeking simply for the logical reason that we don't know about the ones they don't tell us about but certainly my local force often puts CCTV images on their facebook page of people they want to identify

I personally think they know who their person of interest is,what they are looking for is people who saw this person during those hours to find out if they witnessed any strange behaviour by this person.
Without knowing who they are they can't ask them what they saw so they want people to see if they recognise them to come forward with names so they can approach them and ask them about this persons behaviour.
We have already been alerted to someone possibly acting suspicious with Nicolas appeal “ if someone that night made you feel uncomfortable. People might not realise what they do know.”
That wasn't just a random comment in my opinion, I think the person had already been identified.

Putting footage out to the general public could result in thousands of names being put forward /a possible witch hunt and I don't think they are actually looking for that they are looking for local people to name local people who can literally help them.
So I don't think its in the public's interest to release anymore footage at this stage.

 

[MidsummersDay]

I would hazard a guess that if it's a female meeting there would be a tendency for her to be single and her own accommodation and the accident happened in the home.
If it was a male I would suggest there'd be a tendency for it to be an outside situation.
Red circle: BM mast area (approx).
Dark blue: Suggested bin lorry route towards BM mast.
Light blue: Alternate routes of phone towards BM mast area.
Orange: Possible destinations of phone or Corrie.

I'm stringing thoughts along here that's all.
JMO

 

[Dcflag]

I would hazard a guess that if it's a female meeting there would be a tendency for her to be single and her own accommodation and the accident happened in the home.
If it was a male I would suggest there'd be a tendency for it to be an outside situation.
I'm stringing thoughts along here that's all.
JMO

But you couldn't discount the idea that it was female, he left the house say 6-7am (so before a husband would be home for a night shift or so a roommate wouldn't catch him) and has tried to walk home from there? I guess it depends what routes he could take from the residential property and where they've searched but surely he could have still gotten lost, injured etc?

Although I admit the investigation does seem to point to more foul play.

 

[Dcflag]

I personally think they know who their person of interest is,what they are looking for is people who saw this person during those hours to find out if they witnessed any strange behaviour by this person.
Without knowing who they are they can't ask them what they saw so they want people to see if they recognise them to come forward with names so they can approach them and ask them about this persons behaviour.
We have already been alerted to someone possibly acting suspicious with Nicolas appeal “ if someone that night made you feel uncomfortable. People might not realise what they do know.”
That wasn't just a random comment in my opinion, I think the person had already been identified.

Putting footage out to the general public could result in thousands of names being put forward /a possible witch hunt and I don't think they are actually looking for that they are looking for local people to name local people who can literally help them.
So I don't think its in the public's interest to release anymore footage at this stage.

I agree I don't think they're stabbing in the dark with this hub footage. They're hoping someone will point out the right person who could have witnessed something untoward. I don't think these are suspects I think these are potential witnesses.

 

[suzyjackson]

Given the effective disappearance so far of the presumed body, I've never seriously had a woman in the frame as an attacker. Certainly not one who might have been dolled up for a night out. Though a fit, strong female could probably manage a fireman's lift of Corrie if she'd had appropriate training, eg in the military or fire service.

We have obvioiusly been considering the possibility that whatever happened to Corrie was not an accident and that he might have been targetted for whatever reason. If that is the case we must assume that his assailant had throught through disposing of him well in advance, so scouting out a place like the one where the Lark meets the Great Ouse beforehand using OS maps or Google maps must be very likely. This is why I think a spot such as this is worth considering. It's quiet, isolated and allows easy vehicle access to a dump point. Yes, it would require heaving the body over the (relatively low) parapet of the road bridge or lugging it across a few yards of grass verge. However this doesn't seem much more difficult than parking in a quiet bit of Thetford Forest and dragging a body into the trees, especially if one then had to dig a shallow grave and conceal it.

The downside to the Great Ouse disposal is that even if the body made it out to sea at the Wash, longshore drift would keep it fairly close into the coast of Norfolk and then down to Suffolk and Essex. There is therefore a considerable risk of it coming ashore and being found and eventually identified. But by then there would be no forensic evidence in respect of the killer.

The overall lack of structure and any kind of rigid plan for the whole evening by Corrie or his friends makes the existence of any kind of planned attack or abduction very unlikely IMO. If something had been planned and it was actually carried out as intended it's amazing given the state of Corrie by the end of the evening.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

you can't definitively say any crime was committed on that early Saturday morning.

No, but in view of all the possible things that occurred a crime of some sort is much more likely than not.

If he committed suicide - no crime
If he died purely by misadventure, eg fell in the river and drowned - no crime
If he went AWOL - crime
If he died in an RTA after being struck by a car while walking home - crime because the accident was not reported and his death and body have been concealed.
If he died accidentally during a sexual encounter gone wrong - crime because it was probably manslaughter, and his death and body have been concealed.
If he was deliberately killed - crime of murder (possibly manslaughter), concealing a body etc
If he was killed accidentally in self-defence - possible crime of murder or manslaughter, definite crime of concealing the death and the body

 

[suzyjackson]

I personally think they know who their person of interest is,what they are looking for is people who saw this person during those hours to find out if they witnessed any strange behaviour by this person.
Without knowing who they are they can't ask them what they saw so they want people to see if they recognise them to come forward with names so they can approach them and ask them about this persons behaviour.
We have already been alerted to someone possibly acting suspicious with Nicolas appeal “ if someone that night made you feel uncomfortable. People might not realise what they do know.”
That wasn't just a random comment in my opinion, I think the person had already been identified.

Putting footage out to the general public could result in thousands of names being put forward /a possible witch hunt and I don't think they are actually looking for that they are looking for local people to name local people who can literally help them.
So I don't think its in the public's interest to release anymore footage at this stage.

If the police have a person in mind would it be standard practice to go about things in this very roundabout way? It seems unnecessarily dramatic to set up the hub again and show all of the 23 people in the hope that someone will randomly happen to both notice and identify the one person they are after.

I have no police experience at all, JMO that it seems an ineffective way to find your man

 

[Dcflag]

No, but in view of all the possible things that occurred a crime of some sort is much more likely than not.

If he committed suicide - no crime
If he died purely by misadventure, eg fell in the river and drowned - no crime
If he went AWOL - crime
If he died in an RTA after being struck by a car while walking home - crime because the accident was not reported and his death and body have been concealed.
If he died accidentally during a sexual encounter gone wrong - crime because it was probably manslaughter, and his death and body have been concealed.
If he was deliberately killed - crime of murder (possibly manslaughter), concealing a body etc
If he was killed accidentally in self-defence - possible crime of murder or manslaughter, definite crime of concealing the death and the body

All true, I should have been a bit clearer, I meant if he has sadly died it doesn't mean it was in those early hours. I don't know many people If any with a Nokia charger so if your phones dead it's gone. He could have left the persons house in the morning and come to harm after? Although I guess an unlikely scenario

 

[MelmothTheLost]

I would hazard a guess that if it's a female meeting there would be a tendency for her to be single and her own accommodation and the accident happened in the home.

That would be a nightmare scenario for her since she now has a body she needs to get rid of before it starts stinking. We've had a mild, even warm, autumn don't forget. She's probably got three or four days at best. Unless she's keeping him (live or dead) in the cellar, of course.

 

[Dcflag]

If the police have a person in mind would it be standard practice to go about things in this very roundabout way? It seems unnecessarily dramatic to set up the hub again and show all of the 23 people in the hope that someone will randomly happen to both notice and identify the one person they are after.

I have no police experience at all, JMO that it seems an ineffective way to find your man

I've no idea, I can only assume because they have no footage of actually inside the bay they're hoping witness statements will make events clearer that they can't see on cctv, or perhaps corroborate what they already suspect.

Maybe the 23 is actually 22 and they suspect the same person has gone back to the area?

 

[suzyjackson]

But you couldn't discount the idea that it was female, he left the house say 6-7am (so before a husband would be home for a night shift or so a roommate wouldn't catch him) and has tried to walk home from there? I guess it depends what routes he could take from the residential property and where they've searched but surely he could have still gotten lost, injured etc?

Although I admit the investigation does seem to point to more foul play.

If something was going on with a women for them to be going back to her house it must have been a longstanding arrangement which would mean that there'd be a high chance of a neighbour noticing Corrie coming or going on a previous occasion, Do we know if the police have asked for any sightings of him in the past in any residential areas?

 

[Dcflag]

If something was going on with a women for them to be going back to her house it must have been a longstanding arrangement which would mean that there'd be a high chance of a neighbour noticing Corrie coming or going on a previous occasion, Do we know if the police have asked for any sightings of him in the past in any residential areas?

Not that I know of. But in any case there has to be a first time for everything so it wouldn't necessarily flag up to nieghbours

 

[suzyjackson]

Have any of our local posters visted the pod today?

There are some public photos on the facebook page if anyone wants to see it

 

[MelmothTheLost]

The overall lack of structure and any kind of rigid plan for the whole evening by Corrie or his friends makes the existence of any kind of planned attack or abduction very unlikely IMO. If something had been planned and it was actually carried out as intended it's amazing given the state of Corrie by the end of the evening.

I don't know. Corrie was available at 3.30am precisely because his night out had not gone to plan. If there was a (presumably male) predator either on the streets looking for a random, possibly slightly vulnerable, victim or e-cruising on Grindr, then Corrie might have been his perfect victim. Separated from his friends, still at least slightly drunk, bored, getting cold and not quite sure what to do with himself.

Corrie might well have been the unlucky sod who was in the wrong place at the wrong time and simply available.

 

[Dcflag]

Unsure if this is allowed so please let me know if it I'll delete.

Has anyone seen the discussion on the fb page about the cctv footage? Appears it's not just people walking about.

There are lots of people in the immediate area between 3-4am. One in particular running and a group waiting near the bins area.

Literally ten minutes after Corrie disappears there are people standing on that corner, people walk past and speak to them so must be local and bound to be recognised. The cctv looks to be a mixture of film and stills and no vehicles included. It was a busy time of night by all accounts.