GUILTY UK - Ellie Butler, 6, brutally murdered, Sutton, 28 Oct 2013 #2

[Tortoise]

Bloody hell, sounds more like a hotel. :behindbar

 

[Legally Bland]

There could be a full coroner's inquest.

[FONT=&amp]Typically, whena death results in a murder charge and criminal trial, a coroner will open and immediately adjourn an inquest, as happened in Ellie’s case. However, following the conclusion of the trial it is unusual for an inquest to be reopened.

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Ellie’s grandfather Neal Gray, 70, told the Guardian he hoped a full inquest into his granddaughter’s death would answer outstanding questions.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]“I was very pleased when the coroner contacted me,” he said. “I have been calling for a public inquiry because I feel that there should be a further investigation into Mrs Justice Hogg, the judge who ruled that Ellie could be returned to her parents, and independent social workers from Services for Children.[/FONT]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul/21/ellie-butler-coroner-could-reopen-inquest

 

[Gigi-G]

I just read that too. Well whats that going to add to the case? And do you think that this is why its taken so long for their appeal. Going thru the extensive paperwork per say. Like a misdemeanour of evidence and/or kind of thing?

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[Gigi-G]

Oh gosh i really DO SO HATE THIS FLIPPING UPDATE!
Thats why i havent been here as much. Its so awkward. Compared to before

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[Gigi-G]

There could be a full coroner's inquest.



https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul/21/ellie-butler-coroner-could-reopen-inquest

Will it benefit the perps. In any way i guess is what im getting at? ... or finding reasons behind reasons given. And finding persons accountable?

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[Legally Bland]

Oh gosh i really DO SO HATE THIS FLIPPING UPDATE!
Thats why i havent been here as much. Its so awkward. Compared to before

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I just use chrome on my phone, but use the full site option. That works OK for me, thread titles can get a bit small but I just zoom in.

 

[Gigi-G]

I just use chrome on my phone, but use the full site option. That works OK for me, thread titles can get a bit small but I just zoom in.

I sure might go that way myself. The notifications i get on here are driving me insane. Its wine o'clock.... time to pour a large one !

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[michelle230]

To appeal they have to get counsel to draft grounds of appeal and although I wasn't present I can't see what grounds they would have. They can apply out of time is after the 28 days if they get new barristers who would then have to look through all the papers. The only grounds will be that the judge has made an error in his summing up or in any of his rulings in the legal arguments throughout the trial.

Incidentally I am told that JG is in bronze field and on the health care wing separated from everyone. She is being looked after and watched most carefully by the wardens in there and is still denying she has done anything wrong and should not be in there . She is not allowed to mix with anyone at this stage for her own safety so has her own room with shower etc.

Thank you for this update Jog. If it`s ok to ask - how do you find info like this? Is it out there in the internet somewhere?

I had a feeling that she would be in some sort of medical centre within the system. I think she has HPD (histrionic PD). She presented herself an unbelievable amount of times at various hospitals, and not just because of being beaten up. She also had so many miscarriages/abortions etc. She got pregnant time and time again although BB made it clear that he did not want (more) children. Or * any * children. People with HPD love being ill and/or feigning illness to get the attention they crave. Yet another highly manipulative trait of an expert manipulator. I think she will make the staff`s lives hell.
I wonder what she will do when she comes out. Will she devote her life to visiting BB for the next 20 years, or sleep with the next bloke that will have her and of course fall pregnant again. I wonder if she will be allowed to keep any other children she will inevitably have if he is no longer considered a danger. Even though she is an unfit mother.

 

[michelle230]

I don`t know if this Jeremy Vine (BBC2) discussion/interview was ever posted here. It is interesting to listen to - there were some facts talked about which I wasn`t previously aware of.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07fl29k

The relevant discussion about Ellie is about 32 minutes in to the programme and lasts for about 25 minutes. If you want to listen, according to the site there is only 14 hours left before it`s removed, so you have to be quick!!
Apparently JG had had * three* previous miscarriages due to being kicked below the waist by BB. I had wondered and been confused about what were miscarriages and what were abortions, but that makes sense because in one text (when she was in hospital and BB was threatening all sorts if she didn`t get home pronto), she talked about her "f...ed abortion with the baby (boy) still inside her.
JG`s father also said that both BB and JG had been assessed by a forensic psychiatrist at Chase Farm hospital who stated that neither BB or JG should ever be left alone with their children! I hadn`t been aware of that.
Also the grandfather said that Ellie had been handed back and therefore left her old school on 9th December yet didn`t begin her new school until the following March/April. Where the heck were the independent social workers???
Apologies if this programme has already been posted. If you haven`t listened to it, it is worth listening to (but as I say you have to be quick!)
Michelle

 

[Supernovae]

https://twitter.com/BrianfaFarmer/status/756156396459163648

[video=twitter;756156396459163648]https://twitter.com/BrianfaFarmer/status/756156396459163648[/video]

 

[Tortoise]

Thanks supernovae. My heart was in my mouth there for a minute, thinking it was an appeal by Butler.

 

[Tortoise]

I don`t know if this Jeremy Vine (BBC2) discussion/interview was ever posted here. It is interesting to listen to - there were some facts talked about which I wasn`t previously aware of.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07fl29k

The relevant discussion about Ellie is about 32 minutes in to the programme and lasts for about 25 minutes. If you want to listen, according to the site there is only 14 hours left before it`s removed, so you have to be quick!!
Apparently JG had had * three* previous miscarriages due to being kicked below the waist by BB. I had wondered and been confused about what were miscarriages and what were abortions, but that makes sense because in one text (when she was in hospital and BB was threatening all sorts if she didn`t get home pronto), she talked about her "f...ed abortion with the baby (boy) still inside her.
JG`s father also said that both BB and JG had been assessed by a forensic psychiatrist at Chase Farm hospital who stated that neither BB or JG should ever be left alone with their children! I hadn`t been aware of that.
Also the grandfather said that Ellie had been handed back and therefore left her old school on 9th December yet didn`t begin her new school until the following March/April. Where the heck were the independent social workers???
Apologies if this programme has already been posted. If you haven`t listened to it, it is worth listening to (but as I say you have to be quick!)
Michelle

Thanks Michelle, no it hasn't been posted before. That was heart wrenching to listen to Neale Gray, when he described being informed that evening that Ellie was dead. How was JG allowed to hide her medical history of DV from the courts. It beggars belief.

 

[Supernovae]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...er-appeal-conviction-murdering-daughter-ellie

Butler’s appeal bid emerged during a separate court of appeal hearing in relation to his case on Friday. The second most senior judge in England and Wales has been asked to decide whether a family court judge’s behind-closed-doors ruling relating to the murder should be made public.

John Dyson, the master of the rolls and the head of civil justice in England and Wales, has ruled that the media can have access to a ruling made by a high court judge in 2014 on the death of Ellie.

Seven media organisations including the Guardian made submissions to the court of appeal after a family court judge refused the press permission to publish the judgment on the death, on the grounds that Butler might in the future face a retrial. The media however continue to be barred from reporting on that judgment until agreement is reached on redactions made for legal reasons. It is not known if Gray has lodged an appeal.

 

[Nellie Nelson]

Surprised it took him this long. There was no way a malignant narcissist like Ben Butler was ever going to accept his guilt and punishment.

 

[Gigi-G]

Just seen this posted

Decision to allow publication of #Butler case judgment was made by Master of the Rolls, Lord Dyson, at his last hearing before retirement.

@DannyShawBBC
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[Gigi-G]

Lord Dyson's final day before retirement has been a busy one.

Redactions will have to be agreed before the family court judgment, by Mrs Justice Eleanor King, is published. #Butler

@DannyShawBBC

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[Gigi-G]

Initial tweet.

BREAKING Court of Appeal has ordered the publication of a secret family court judgement involving Ben #Butler and Jennie Gray.

@DannyShawBBC



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[Legally Bland]

So he's appealing then, against both conviction and sentence.

I know it was to be expected, but uuugghh.

 

[Gigi-G]

7 media groups, including BBC, are challenging a court decision to withhold publication of Mrs Justice King's judgment on #Butler case

@DannyShawBBC

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[Gigi-G]

Ben #Butler - jailed for life for the murder of his six-year-old daughter Ellie - has lodged an appeal against his conviction and sentence

@DannyShawBBC

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