GUILTY UK - Ellie Butler, 6, brutally murdered, Sutton, 28 Oct 2013 #2

[Gigi-G]

Ben #Butler - jailed for life for the murder of his six-year-old daughter Ellie - has lodged an appeal against his conviction and sentence

@DannyShawBBC

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[Gigi-G]

So he's appealing then, against both conviction and sentence.

I know it was to be expected, but uuugghh.

But it looks like Lord Dyson has furthered the application for the opening of the case in the public domain. In which Ellie was handed back to BB JG.

Thats good .... no?

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[Tortoise]

So I thought the purpose of not releasing the earlier judgement was in case he appealed and it prejudiced his right to fair re-trial. Do we know if his appeal has been heard yet or when it is due to be heard?

I saw it was lodged on 13th July. Can't believe this wasn't reported.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...er-appeal-conviction-murdering-daughter-ellie

 

[Gigi-G]

This is in the DM. seems he has lodged an appeal... idkr. On both. Conviction and appeal. I just fired off at the DM lol.

http://dailym.ai/29RyVcq

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[Legally Bland]

I'm guessing the table/leg evidence will be redacted?

 

[Supernovae]

"I saw it was lodged on 13th July. Can't believe this wasn't reported. "

The paperwork lodged may not be public, or available to the media. I understand it only came out at today's hearing.

 

[jog]

"I saw it was lodged on 13th July. Can't believe this wasn't reported. "

The paperwork lodged may not be public, or available to the media. I understand it only came out at today's hearing.

I sincerely hope that the press don't publish anything that will help BB appeal. The fact that BB has done it within time would imply that it was his current legal team that submitted it. Hopefully it is an appeal without merit and simply done at his request. JG could only appeal really against conviction on the child cruelty charge as she pleaded to the other count and the sentence on both is not really appeal able. I would have thought if she has appealed then this would have Also been disclosed as well in the hearings today

Regarding other comments re JG in prison, I am only aware of the info I posted due to the fact that prisoners in bronze field have told me. Apparently she doesn't leave her cell is taken in her meals and they are worried about her being a suicide risk

I missed the Jeremy vine broadcast Apart from that posted did I miss a lot ? Anyone know if I could still get it?

 

[jog]

I sincerely hope that the press don't publish anything that will help BB appeal. The fact that BB has done it within time would imply that it was his current legal team that submitted it. Hopefully it is an appeal without merit and simply done at his request. JG could only appeal really against conviction on the child cruelty charge as she pleaded to the other count and the sentence on both is not really appeal able. I would have thought if she has appealed then this would have Also been disclosed as well in the hearings today

Regarding other comments re JG in prison, I am only aware of the info I posted due to the fact that prisoners in bronze field have told me. Apparently she doesn't leave her cell is taken in her meals and they are worried about her being a suicide risk

I missed the Jeremy vine broadcast Apart from that posted did I miss a lot ? Anyone know if I could still get it?

Regarding his appeal. It won't have been heard yet. Usually it takes a while if you are serving a lengthy sentence however due to the public interest in this they may expedite it. Can't see why he is appealing sentence as it is the right sentence if his conviction is upheld. It is his appeal against conviction that is troubling . They must be taking issue on a legal argument that happened during the trial re evidence . As I said previously let's hope it is without merit. For those of you who don't know,when an appeal is lodged it is looked at firstly by a single judge who decides if it can proceed to a full appeal so it does have to pass that first stage. Even if it is refused I can't see BB giving up he has so much time on his hands that he will continue to bombard the court with appeals

 

[Gigi-G]

Regarding his appeal. It won't have been heard yet. Usually it takes a while if you are serving a lengthy sentence however due to the public interest in this they may expedite it. Can't see why he is appealing sentence as it is the right sentence if his conviction is upheld. It is his appeal against conviction that is troubling . They must be taking issue on a legal argument that happened during the trial re evidence . As I said previously let's hope it is without merit. For those of you who don't know,when an appeal is lodged it is looked at firstly by a single judge who decides if it can proceed to a full appeal so it does have to pass that first stage. Even if it is refused I can't see BB giving up he has so much time on his hands that he will continue to bombard the court with appeals

I was on the assumption that a total of 3 appeals can be submitted. Once the 3 have been brought and each have been revoked. That will be the end and the sentence will run as per course.?

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[Gigi-G]

Regarding his appeal. It won't have been heard yet. Usually it takes a while if you are serving a lengthy sentence however due to the public interest in this they may expedite it. Can't see why he is appealing sentence as it is the right sentence if his conviction is upheld. It is his appeal against conviction that is troubling . They must be taking issue on a legal argument that happened during the trial re evidence . As I said previously let's hope it is without merit. For those of you who don't know,when an appeal is lodged it is looked at firstly by a single judge who decides if it can proceed to a full appeal so it does have to pass that first stage. Even if it is refused I can't see BB giving up he has so much time on his hands that he will continue to bombard the court with appeals

Try the internet for a playback service. Most media centers have a playback facility.

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[Tortoise]

A sadistic father who murdered his six-year-old daughter in a rage has failed to halt publication of a secret family court judgment detailing his abuse.
Ben Butler was revealed yesterday to have filed an appeal against his conviction last month for killing Ellie at his home in October 2013. He used the application in an attempt to stop the release of an earlier court ruling that he had battered her to death with the leg of a chair.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ellie-butler-s-killer-father-fails-to-block-abuse-report-7thrmrpqk

I can't read the rest because it's subscription only.

 

[michelle230]

I sincerely hope that the press don't publish anything that will help BB appeal. The fact that BB has done it within time would imply that it was his current legal team that submitted it. Hopefully it is an appeal without merit and simply done at his request. JG could only appeal really against conviction on the child cruelty charge as she pleaded to the other count and the sentence on both is not really appeal able. I would have thought if she has appealed then this would have Also been disclosed as well in the hearings today

Regarding other comments re JG in prison, I am only aware of the info I posted due to the fact that prisoners in bronze field have told me. Apparently she doesn't leave her cell is taken in her meals and they are worried about her being a suicide risk

I missed the Jeremy vine broadcast Apart from that posted did I miss a lot ? Anyone know if I could still get it?

Hi SN,
Thank you for the info re JG - very interesting! You know people in high places :laughing:. The suicide risk and her state of mind is fascinating. I wonder if this is genuine or could it be an act to get sympathy/special treatment/attention? If it is genuine, I wonder what the reality is that has hit her. Is it that her beloved will not be able to be part of her life (in the "normal" sense) for many, many years after she is out of prison and therefore what will she do? How will she cope on her own? Is it emotional exhaustion - the months and months of planning of the trial and the intricate details/answers/excuses/explanations and the anti climax and failure of all that effort taking it`s toll? I think it`s too much of a leap of faith to think her suicidal thoughts (if they are genuine), is due to remorse or pain over her mother`s death. I am sure it is nothing to do with losing Ellie - I am convinced that she will blame poor, innocent, cute Ellie for her boyfriend`s incarceration and loss of huge compensation payment. She has lost everything, her home as well as I am sure that will have been snapped up by another family in need of a home. It won`t be left empty by the council for two years, especially as there are no children involved now. Having children was very advantageous for this vile couple. If you hear anything else about JG through your sources and are able to share (and don`t mind!) I would be very interested to know how she is coping and behaving.
Shame you missed the Jeremy Vine interview. I didn`t come across it until the other day! It was a very good interview but the only new information (to me anyway) was what I wrote above. I wasn`t aware that according to the Neil, BB had caused JG three previous miscarriages from deliberately kicking her below the waist, and also according to him they had both been examined by a clinical psychiatrist who deemed them both to be unfit to be left alone with children. Neil was extremely emotional but spoke with great clarity. Why JG kept getting pregnant is difficult to understand as it is obvious that he never wanted children. I think she was under some kind of twisted illusion that if she had had a boy then that would have done the trick!

 

[Gigi-G]

Danny Shaw BBC just tweeted this..

Coroner says her "preliminary view" is there should be inquest or inquiry into death of Ellie #Butler who was murdered by father Ben #Butler

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[Gigi-G]

2nd tweet

Coroner Selena Lynch says way social services & others handled Ellie #Butler case merits an investigation - but no final decision yet.

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[Gigi-G]

3rd tweet .

Selena Lynch said coroners could look at 'framework' of judicial decisions but not judges' "thought processes" or findings, #Butler

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[Tortoise]

[FONT=&quot]Lord Dyson, the master of the rolls and the second most senior judge in England and Wales, said on Friday that Mrs Justice Pauffley had “reached the wrong conclusion” when deciding that the ruling, made in the family court in 2014, should stay under wraps.

'''

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Lord Dyson, who headed the appeal panel and is the head of civil justice in England and Wales, said there was “no real possibility” that publication would prejudice Butler’s right to a fair retrial. “(Pauffley) reached the wrong conclusion,” Lord Dyson said in a written judgment.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Even if there is a retrial, there is no real possibility that the publication of the [King ruling] will prejudice the rights of Mr Butler to a fair trial.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]He added: “[Pauffley] acknowledged that, in the event of a retrial, the risk of prejudice to its fairness occasioned by the publication of the (King ruling) was ‘small’. In my view, it was so negligible that it should have been given little or no weight.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The other two appeal judges, Lord Justice McFarlane and Lord Justice Burnett, agreed. The King ruling is expected to be released to the media on Friday.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ong-to-bar-publication-of-ellie-butler-ruling[/FONT]

 

[Tortoise]

'Violence and abuse, drink and drugs': Full details of the horrific home life of murdered Ellie Butler is finally revealed by court

After a series of appeals and attempts to keep the family court judgement secret, a redacted form of the ruling was finally released today.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...llie-Butler-revealed-court.html#ixzz4Fp2hvSS2

 

[Tortoise]

The report reveals how during Ellie's lifetime Butler routinely abused his tragic daughter and even flushed her sibling's head down the toilet as punishment.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...llie-Butler-revealed-court.html#ixzz4Fp32JRNm

 

[Tortoise]

It can now be revealed Mrs Justice King said she was 'satisfied so that I am sure that Ellie died as a result of being hit over the head with the leg from a child's table or pushed with some force'.
Mrs Justice King said she was satisfied that Ellie was 'routinely smacked' and was 'subjected to serious emotional abuse and her sibling suffered 'serious emotional harm'.
The judge criticised Gray for her 'wholesale failure to protect the children' describing Ellie's younger sibling as 'deeply traumatised'.
Heart-breaking notes kept in a diary by Ellie's sibling's foster carer revealed the depth of the damage done.
Ellie's sibling said the house was a 'bad house' and told how both children were 'smacked lots of times'.



The entries revealed 'dad hits mum and makes her cry' and that Ellie's younger sibling's view of itself as 'bad'.
Shockingly, when the child had wet itself or pooed its pants Butler would put its head down the toilet and flush as punishment.
In a damning indictment, the judge found Gray had 'walked away' from her living child.



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...llie-Butler-revealed-court.html#ixzz4Fp3sBRJJ

 

[Tortoise]

Mrs Justice King said Ellie had been admitted to hospital on October 28 2013 after suffering a "significant head injury" when in the "sole care" of her father.
She said medical experts had concluded Ellie had been hurt as a result of "one or more severe blunt impacts" - they said her head had either struck a "rigid surface" or been "hit with a heavy blunt instrument".
The judge said post-mortem evidence showed that between two and four weeks earlier, Ellie had suffered "substantial blunt force trauma to her back".
Mrs Justice King said Butler had "wholly failed" to engage with family court proceedings.
He had failed to comply with court orders and been in contempt of court "time and again".
Butler and Gray had asked for family court proceedings to be adjourned until the criminal trial had ended - their application had been refused.
A lawyer representing Butler had said Butler would "decline to answer questions" if required to go into the witness box.
Shortly before Butler had been due to give evidence, at the family court hearing, Mrs Justice King said she had been informed that he "intended to play no further part in the proceedings".
Gray had "followed suit" and indicated that she too would play no further part.
Mrs Justice King said she had analysed written evidence contained in 24 lever arch files.

Mrs Justice King outlined the background and "events leading up to Ellie's death" in her ruling.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...-in-ellie-butler-case-published-34923538.html