GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #4

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More from the same article:

"Det Chief Inspector Phil Jones, who is leading the murder hunt, has said it is possible the killer may have tried to lift her over the quarry wall, but failed in his attempt and instead left her on the narrow roadside verge."

After all our discussions yesterday about the dumping site, the DCI in charge seems to favour the site of the floral tributes? Puzzling, or just plain stupid? Or am I reading this wrong?

Is that 50 yards from the entrance? The DCI would favour a site for only one reason.

I looked at the road, up and down, for the street light that is seen in the photos where the van is backed up. I found two street lights ... one close to the intersection near the end of the row of tall trees, and the other some distance further down the road from the entrance to the quarry. I think the rock can be seen in the background where there are several officers down the road a bit. I'll look for the photos later if I've lost anyone ... don't have the link handy, but it's the one of the general map, Jo's parents, the crane and van pictures.
 
I do hope that DNA, soil, pollen analyses, mobile phone blips, carelessness of the killer when speaking to someone, or his behaviour, help find the killer.
When they mentioned soil and pollen, I wondered if the killer could have lost something when he transported and dumped poor Jo. Maybe brought mud from his boots which doesn't match the soil from the site.
 
I do hope that DNA, soil, pollen analyses, mobile phone blips, carelessness of the killer when speaking to someone, or his behaviour, help find the killer.
When they mentioned soil and pollen, I wondered if the killer could have lost something when he transported and dumped poor Jo. Maybe brought mud from his boots which doesn't match the soil from the site.
Good point.
I still think that sock was used to wipe wet or dirt off the killers hands. Or used as a glove to stop getting dirty.
 
A lot of interviews with Joanne's friend this morning. This is one:

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK...tect-In-Bristol/Article/201101215892709?f=rss


Murdered Jo's Final Call To Best Friend

She said: "I got a call from Jo as she was on her way (home); it was to arrange our plans for Christmas Eve.

"We were both returning to our parents for Christmas and she was bringing (boyfriend) Greg along on Christmas Eve when we went out.

"It was tradition that we'd meet in our local area. She was trying to persuade me to spend New Year in Edinburgh with her, too; I couldn't commit but our plans for Christmas Eve were set.

"It wasn't unusual not to hear from Jo from then; we were both useless with our phones.


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Good point.
I still think that sock was used to wipe wet or dirt off the killers hands. Or used as a glove to stop getting dirty.

Quite possibly. I think the killer thought (and acted) very quickly, in a very cold and calculated manner. Had he been in a panic, he would have shed clues everywhere.
 
It's a clever theory Teabreid, but IMO it strains credibility to breaking point.

1. To avoid electronic detection when he leaves Sheffield to return to Bristol, he has to leave his mobile in Sheffield despite the dangerous weather conditions and he has to pay cash at some stage for fuel because even a full tank is probably not going to suffice for the round trip Sheffield-Bristol-Sheffield in a 4x4. This is either a extremely lucky or else proof of pre-meditation.

2. He will take some time to have it out with Joanna, then kill her, then decide what to do, etc, before actually going to dump the body and then doubling back towards Sheffield. He's not going to get back to Sheffield for the second time before 8 am - and that's a stretch. Then he spends the weekend skiing with witnesses - some constitution!

3. He might easily have been seen on his return to Bristol, by a neighbour, or his brother's car might very easily have been seen departing from Sheffield to go back to Bristol, or arriving back in Sheffield early in the morning of 18th December. And he doesn't know in advance that he won't be seen, nor does he know afterwards that he wasn't...

4. He doesn't know when he dumps the body that it will be swiftly covered by snow and remain frozen and undiscovered for several days. Given the place he has chosen to dump it, the antecedent probability is that it will already have been discovered before he gets back on Sunday night. In which case the police will arrive in the flat before he does, so he will never get the chance to spend 4 hours preparing the scene. It is also difficult to see why he needs that long anyway.

5. (Also applies to several other hypotheses but not to all) he has to carry the body through the street to his brother's car where he might easily be spotted.

6. He requires the collusion post factum at least of his brother and his brother's wife and I'm not at all sure why the brother's wife wants to play ball. Not many women are happy to make it easier for men to get away with killing their women.

7. When CJ was in custody, Greg launched a blistering attack on the press for pre-judging his guilt. Remarkable sense of decency if he thought he was the main alternative suspect.

8. If he has quarrelled with Joanna at lunchtime or they've been on the rocks for a while, he certainly has to assume that she has spoken of this to others and that the spotlight will be on him. He also doesn't know that she will be in when he arrives back in Sheffield. Indeed if he really doubts that she is faithful, he won't know that she will be there at all.

9. The main "case" against Greg in fact seems to be that people find it difficult to explain the 4 hours "gap", but it's not hard to explain at all. To anyone used to the varieties of human character and behaviour, there is nothing hard to credit in Greg’s account of his discovery of the body or in his subsequent behaviour and comments. Jo is one of those (like me) who don’t always answer texts or return calls promptly or at all. At most he is a little surprised at not hearing from her over the weekend. When he gets back on Sunday night, he sees her bag on the table, as he says, but does not yet realise that her keys and mobile are in it. He probably tries to call her, but it doesn’t ring audibly because the battery is run down. From the cat’s behaviour he realises that Jo has been out for quite a while, but he is only bemused, not yet worried. He sorts out his luggage, deals with the cat, makes himself some grub, and having nothing better to while waiting for her, may watch a film or listen to some music or spend an hour or two on line. As time goes by, he becomes more concerned and finally he starts looking round more closely. Already perhaps over three hours have gone by since he got in. It is now that he discovers the keys, phone, purse (US readers note British sense of this word), etc. He becomes quite seriously anxious as he thinks over this, but he is a bit of a ditherer and unsure what to do. He calls his mum – OK fairly embarrassing as a reaction, but also understandable and even disarming. Mums sometimes have good advice (pity she didn't tell him to take his hat off while laying the flowers). Shortly afterwards, he calls the police and explains the situation. he also calls Joanna’s parents, who immediately see the problem and set out. All perfectly credible IMO.

Conclusion, Greg Reardon is innocent.
I will go through your points:
1. I don't think it was premeditated, he just happened to leave his phone in his own car- which isn't very unlikely, I've often left my phone in the car after a long journey.
2. 360 miles round trip by motorway- most modern vehicles will manage that on a full tank.
3. Basically this applies to the killer, whoever it was. Murder is a risky business, more so if not premeditated.
4. This is why it would really help to establish when the body was dumped. I am totally unsure now, but the police must know.
5.Applies to every possible suspect, so can't eliminate anyone
6. Very true, and the weakest part of my theory.
7.The action of a basically decent young man, who has made a terrible mistake in anger. While he won't confess, he doesn't like the idea of someone else carrying the can for his actions.
8.Perhaps he arrives and she isn't home which triggers the whole tragedy once she turns up? Anyway he doesn't plan any of this, so he isn't worrying about who knows what- he just loses it, and no doubt would have regretted it every minute since.
9. The 4 hours don't feature in my theory, but I can see why it makes people wonder.
 
5348222097_07b6e30736.jpg


Right, this is definitely the last image i'm uploading about the body location :)

Is the wall clear to see now? Don't forget that we won't be able to see it on Google Street view. Those shots are taken in Summer and everything is in full leaf, obviously the wall will be better exposed now it's Winter.
So yes he did say wall, but not the wall where the tributes are.

And he did say might which I think you should take loosely to mean, she might have been intended to be dumped in the quarry, but obstacles prevented (he just happened to quote wall off the top of his head)
Taking words literally, and quoting other peoples assumptions leads to all these kind of conflicting reports really.

From the intersection, the stone wall is on the right hand side of the road until the bike path, and on the left hand side of the road but on the other side of the Quarry Entrance. Between the Quarry Entrance and the intersection, I don't think there is a wall - maybe some tall trees and a hedge ... but there is a stone wall 50 yards on the other side of the entrance? There is a chain link fence and a field on the left hand side closer to the intersection, as far as I can tell.

From the placement of the vehicles in photos, it looks like it is between the quarry entrance and the intersection, and ... is there a stone wall there too? Or are you suggesting that she was left on the right hand side of the road, the non-quarry side, where I think there is a stone wall ... to the Avon Trail.
 
Possibility of High-Level Review of the Case

A high-level review of the Jo Yeates murder inquiry could be ordered within days.
So far, Avon and Somerset Police have arrested only one man, whom they later released on bail, leading to some questioning their progress in the high-profile case.
And if the situation continues for another 11 days, a ‘28-day review’ will be held by a senior investigating officer either from within the force - or from outside it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-saliva-body-detectives-hunt-mystery-car.html

.
 
New round... All quotes are from Teabreid's post here.

1. I don't think it was premeditated, he just happened to leave his phone in his own car- which isn't very unlikely, I've often left my phone in the car after a long journey.
First piece of luck you postulate - he forgets his mobile.
2. 360 miles round trip by motorway- most modern vehicles will manage that on a full tank.
Second piece of luck you postulate - the 4x4 has a full tank. The trip south to dump the body will add a few miles and at least twenty minutes.
3. Basically this applies to the killer, whoever it was. Murder is a risky business, more so if not premeditated.
Third piece of luck you postulate - not being spotted at three different points. I don't accept that this applies equally to other hypotheses.
4. This is why it would really help to establish when the body was dumped. I am totally unsure now, but the police must know.
If you mean that he might have left the body in the flat until Sunday running the risk of premature discovery before he has set the scene - new piece of luck required!
5.Applies to every possible suspect, so can't eliminate anyone
Not at all. The danger of being seen when carrying body to car is practically zero in the case of the hypothesis espoused by Mr Zhivago + Robin Hood, which I think best fits the currently known data. See here.
6. Very true, and the weakest part of my theory.
7.The action of a basically decent young man, who has made a terrible mistake in anger. While he won't confess, he doesn't like the idea of someone else carrying the can for his actions.
OK.
8.Perhaps he arrives and she isn't home which triggers the whole tragedy once she turns up? Anyway he doesn't plan any of this, so he isn't worrying about who knows what- he just loses it, and no doubt would have regretted it every minute since.
He needs a very strong motive to drive to Sheffield and then turn round again in the middle of the night and drive back, and that motive needs to exist before he leaves Bristol the first time. It will be another piece of extraordinary luck if no one else knows about that motive.
 
From the placement of the vehicles in photos, it looks like it is between the quarry entrance and the intersection, and ... is there a stone wall there too? Or are you suggesting that she was left on the right hand side of the road, the non-quarry side, where I think there is a stone wall ... to the Avon Trail.
Phillb established conclusively yesterday that the body was dumped next to the big boulder on the right hand (as you enter) side of the quarry entrance. The only doubt was which side of the wire fence, though I think the consensus was that it was just left on the verge beside the boulder. The stone wall he is now referring to is behind the wire fence, as indicated in the picture. I hope this is correct, I am replying because I feel guilty for re-opening this whole issue, not deliberately, I can assure you!
 
The 4x4, The Redwood Hotel, The Guy seen dashing across the road Chrismas Eve......


The Pale Color 4x 4x .. just some thoughts.
The 4x4 police are looking for. It could belong the Perp's Grandparent/Parent/Relative etc etc.... tucked away and now parked behind a shed/wall/out of view. it may not be obvious who the vehicle belongs to and where it is now.

Also, Has the Redwood Hotel, not even a mile from the murder site have all of their records checked for who had rooms booked the week before/after the abduction? Have all the Hotel Workers been checked> Were any guys working on construction sites in Clifton and surrounds living there? Any guys doing business in Bristol and staying at the Hotel who have a knowledge to the Clifton/Longwood Lane areas?

The guy seen dashing across the road Christmas Eve night by one of the residents of the Longwood Lane area... is there a description of him? has the site he was seen running been checked for boot/shoe prints? He supposedly jumped a stile and ran into some woods... not sure if that spot shows up in any of Phil B and Otto's Google photos...Was he one of a group of 2 who were trying to dispose of the body, they got interrupted.. he ran and the other (in the pale 4x4) took off....
 
New round... All quotes are from Teabreid's post here.



He needs a very strong motive to drive to Sheffield and then turn round again in the middle of the night and drive back, and that motive needs to exist before he leaves Bristol the first time. It will be another piece of extraordinary luck if no one else knows about that motive.

All the points you make are perfectly valid, and yes, he would need to be very lucky.

On your last point, though, quoted above: jealousy is, in my opinion, the most destructive emotion and the strongest motive anyone can possibly have- it eats away inside a person like a cancer, and if he was in that frame of mind when he left Bristol, nothing can be ruled out regarding his state of mind by the time he reached Sheffield 3 hours later. However I am probably completely wrong on this one, and will be very happy to be proved so. I just don't think GR can be totally eliminated yet.
 
The 4x4, The Redwood Hotel, The Guy seen dashing across the road Chrismas Eve......


The Pale Color 4x 4x .. just some thoughts.
The 4x4 police are looking for. It could belong the Perp's Grandparent/Parent/Relative etc etc.... tucked away and now parked behind a shed/wall/out of view. it may not be obvious who the vehicle belongs to and where it is now.

Also, Has the Redwood Hotel, not even a mile from the murder site have all of their records checked for who had rooms booked the week before/after the abduction? Have all the Hotel Workers been checked> Were any guys working on construction sites in Clifton and surrounds living there? Any guys doing business in Bristol and staying at the Hotel who have a knowledge to the Clifton/Longwood Lane areas?

The guy seen dashing across the road Christmas Eve night by one of the residents of the Longwood Lane area... is there a description of him? has the site he was seen running been checked for boot/shoe prints? He supposedly jumped a stile and ran into some woods... not sure if that spot shows up in any of Phil B and Otto's Google photos...Was he one of a group of 2 who were trying to dispose of the body, they got interrupted.. he ran and the other (in the pale 4x4) took off....


Actually it was TWO men running across the road. She only described one as blonde with a white teeshirt.

Extensive description and article here:

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/170906/Jo-Yeates-murder-I-saw-two-agitated-men-run-from-woods/

.
 
But i've got to add the couple only moved in together in October at the very earliest
(most quote November)

They only moved into that flat a short while ago, as far as I can understand: it seems they'd lived together before that.

‘It’s our second place together and things felt like they were really falling into place. We were both really happy in our jobs – we worked together and that’s how we met.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ates-sobs-I-want-Christmas.html#ixzz1ApDUVyfh
 
Hi, I'm a newbie to the forum. What a baffling case.

Does anyone think that the police have an inkling but need to gather firm evidence. Could it be that they are slowly leaking information to scare someone or hope that the perpetrator(s) will make a mistake? Or is that the stuff of fiction?

My feeling is that this murder was not premeditated. As to the motive I am not sure. I think greed can be ruled out. Perhaps jealousy, fit of rage or fear?
 

I assume that human dna and feline dna is easily distinguishable? just wondering if saliva could have been Bernard delighted to see her when she arrived home.

Joanna Yeates' best friend pours her heart out and backs DNA testing

Wednesday, January 12, 2011

"The last person known to have spoken to Joanna Yeates has talked about how she misses her best friend – and how "desperate" she is for the killer to be brought to justice.

Rebecca Scott has told the Evening Post about her friendship with Miss Yeates, the time they spent together and the murdered land- scape architect's relation- ship with boyfriend Greg Reardon."


http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news/DESPERATE-KILLER-CAUGHT/article-3090666-detail/article.html

The thing that jumps out at me from what Rebecca had to say, was that she heard from the police that Joanna was missing...... so during the '4 hours' Greg wasn't ringing round her friends then?!
 
Hi, I'm a newbie to the forum. What a baffling case.

Does anyone think that the police have an inkling but need to gather firm evidence. Could it be that they are slowly leaking information to scare someone or hope that the perpetrator(s) will make a mistake? Or is that the stuff of fiction?

My feeling is that this murder was not premeditated. As to the motive I am not sure. I think greed can be ruled out. Perhaps jealousy, fit of rage or fear?

Hi :)

I think that the leaks could be deliberate to spook someone..... maybe into confessing (fat chance of that now).

Welcome!
 
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