GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #6

[laserdisc10]

Startled by her unexpected arrival into the room, Treebhoowoon pushed Michaela from behind and she fell to the ground, hitting her head. After rising to her feet, the 27-year-old teacher began to scream. Approaching her from behind to muffle her cries, Mooneea placed one hand over her mouth. He then placed his other arm around her neck in an attempt to stop her from moving. She is believed to have suffered compressions to the neck during a struggle and lost consciousness.

He says he pushed her and she fell near the bathroom. She tried to get up and she was caught by Sandip from behind. She started to cry, the tears were running down her cheeks and she started shouting.

‘Sandip covered her mouth with his hand to quieten her. At the same time he grabbed her with his other arm around her neck. She was standing up at this stage. He tried to press his arm around her neck and this is why there was neck compression. He held her too tightly.’

According to Insp. Jokhoo, Michaela frantically tried to free herself from Sandip’s grasp as she gasped for air.

He said: ‘From the marks we have seen on her neck, we have found that she tried to liberate herself from the arm.

‘We have seen the pattern of the scratches on her neck are going down ways. They are not conclusive observations, but that’s what we have seen.

The pattern coming down comes from pulling and the only person pulling down would have been herself.

‘She was trying to get free from him. When forensics examine the nail clippings we will be able to confirm our own observations.’

Saw this a moment ago in todays Mail Online

Different case, but the arm across the neck is similar to what I've been suggesting may have occurred to JY


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ala-Harte-murdered-honeymoon-just-rupees.html

 

[ruined detroit]

The police have made mistakes before when trying to locate bodies. The case of John Tanner is one, but this one has to be the worst. Her mother found the body after 80 days behind a bath panel due to the smell. Sounds like she was treated very shabbily by the police http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-406247/A-mothers-fight-justice-murdered-daughter.html

Wil JY, I don't believe the body was stashed. Here is a case where it was http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-68344/Leannes-killer-kept-body-freezer.html but the crime is very different to JY.

I think JY was killed 17th pm and dumped on the 17th/18th, the very latest would be the 19th. The perp wqas an intimate and the crime not premeditated, more spur of the moment.

I also laugh at the reports saying the killer had forensic knowledge that indicates he may even be a policeman. I think most people with intelligence have forensic knowledge these days and it would not be hard to know what NOT to do.

 

[otto]

Well we can only guess until we know the facts can't we Otto? We all have our different theories, as do the Police. But i'm as satisfied as can be the body was put there in the early hours of Christmas day.

The only thing to solve with that theory is where was the body prior to Longwood Lane, but of course knowing who the perp really is helps first

Really ... I was under the impression that you thought it was between the snowfalls. I hadn't even fully considered the possibility that she was kept elsewhere that long. If it was almost a week, then I do not believe that she was not alive he entire time. That would explain why she was taken from her flat ... not to hide the fact that she was murdered there, but because she wasn't murdered until several days later. I don't think I ever heard whether she had any other injuries, but her brother did say she looked like she was sleeping.

 

[enzeder]

The snow was on the weekend, and again on Monday. By Friday, some of it must have disappeared, which is when dog walkers saw her. The dogwalkers said that they had been on the road daily and had not seen the body, but that there had been snow. It's conceivable that she was not easily seen on the verge under a light blanket of snow from Monday, when it snowed, until Friday, when some melted or settled and she was found. She had to be there from at least Monday, as I didn't hear about footprints around her. She could have been there from before the first snowfall, and the second was shortly after. If she was under two light blankets of snow, it's understandable that it would take 7 days for her to be found ... three for the first snowfall and four for the next.

Many of the earlier articles have stated that JY was found in a ditch near the entrance.

Looking at some very early photos and video screencaps which I have saved, here is where I think the approx. location of where JY body was placed?. Please bear in mind that this is a Google street view image (date stamped 2009)

 

[otto]

Here you go Otto.
Clifton December 24th.

It's a photographers dream!

Do you know if she was found lying down or sitting up?

 

[enzeder]

This is one of the early screencaps which I saved. (I think the dog walkers are in this pic) Note the curved tree trunk to the left of the woman with a bag over her shoulder. I'm still looking for the actual video from which I saved this pic.

 

[angel10510]

LOL. I don't want to go round in circles, and over old ground with this snow depth, and hidden body thing again really

So i'll just make a few last points on it and say no more.

Firstly there never has been an official statement saying her body was 'snow covered' The only people to see the body were the dog walkers, and the Police. They are the only ones who know how the body was.

The dog walkers were adamant that they would have seen that body if it had been there earlier. The Police also have doubts the body could have lain undiscovered there for 8 days.
The Police aren't satisfied enough, and are exploring the possibilities the body was kept somewhere else.

The only reports to say the body was 'snow covered' come from the press who assume she was murdered on Fri 17th, so they presume she was dumped there that night. The only reason they think her body was there for 8 days is because they conclude it must have been snow covered and hidden from view.
It's all surmise and conjecture, not fact.

This makes it seem as though teams of dog walkers were almost walking around all sides and on top of her, though, and it places great faith in people's conviction that they would necessarily see something even if they weren't looking for it. She was off the road, near the entrance to the quarry, not in the middle of traffic. Looking down the road or to the other side, distracted by the dog, talking on the phone, or any number of other scenarios could mean missing her. Even a light cover of snow could make her body an indistinct shape.

 

[laserdisc10]

This is one of the early screencaps which I saved. (I think the dog walkers are in this pic) Note the curved tree trunk to the left of the woman with a bag over her shoulder. I'm still looking for the actual video from which I saved this pic.

Good shots

That would make sense. If the body had been lower than the surrounds, the snow, light though it may have been, would have covered the body, making it difficult to see. And the ditch location you've nominated is what I would choose for the purpose in preference to adjacent to the large rock

 

[otto]

Saw this a moment ago in todays Mail Online

Different case, but the arm across the neck is similar to what I've been suggesting may have occurred to JY


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ala-Harte-murdered-honeymoon-just-rupees.html

So Joanna died from neck compression, probably related to have been approached from behind and an arm compressing her neck.

 

[otto]

The police have made mistakes before when trying to locate bodies. The case of John Tanner is one, but this one has to be the worst. Her mother found the body after 80 days behind a bath panel due to the smell. Sounds like she was treated very shabbily by the police http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-406247/A-mothers-fight-justice-murdered-daughter.html

Wil JY, I don't believe the body was stashed. Here is a case where it was http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-68344/Leannes-killer-kept-body-freezer.html but the crime is very different to JY.

I think JY was killed 17th pm and dumped on the 17th/18th, the very latest would be the 19th. The perp wqas an intimate and the crime not premeditated, more spur of the moment.

I also laugh at the reports saying the killer had forensic knowledge that indicates he may even be a policeman. I think most people with intelligence have forensic knowledge these days and it would not be hard to know what NOT to do.

Isn't that a case that was also handled by LGC Forensics, where double jeopardy was overturned?

 

[Phillb]

This is one of the early screencaps which I saved. (I think the dog walkers are in this pic) Note the curved tree trunk to the left of the woman with a bag over her shoulder. I'm still looking for the actual video from which I saved this pic.

Great find. Well if that is the exact spot the body was, which places it about 8' away from where we marked, the other side of the boulder. Then that truly, and without a shadow of a doubt must prove that body cannot have been there for 8 days. It is even nearer the road. I seriously can't believe it has been there 8 days, truly it beggers believe. Look at the size of the standing people to try imagine that snow depth hiding them from view layed down. It can't happen, the road is clear and everything.

Although i'm not totally convinced they would stand chatting to the dog walkers stood right over the body. I.M.O they could have moved slightly away for obvious reasons.

Keep those stills coming enzeder :goodpost:

 

[otto]

Many of the earlier articles have stated that JY was found in a ditch near the entrance.

Looking at some very early photos and video screencaps which I have saved, here is where I think the approx. location of where JY body was placed?. Please bear in mind that this is a Google street view image (date stamped 2009)

Newspaper reports have said was a verge ... like the edge of a forest ... so the same area as in your photo.

 

[enzeder]

One instance of the body not being seen on Christmas Day.

"Val and Gerry Thomas, also of Providence Lane, drove down Longwood Lane at 8.50am on Christmas Day, just 10 minutes before Miss Yeates' body was discovered.

Mrs Thomas said: "We saw a couple walking a dog but nothing else.

"By the time we came back after a church service at 12.45pm the road was closed by police."

http://www.thisissomerset.co.uk/news/Undefined-Headline/article-3041337-detail/article.html

 

[laserdisc10]

So Joanna died from neck compression, probably related to have been approached from behind and an arm compressing her neck.

We won't know until we're told, but based on what we have been told, it's the theory which occurred to me. Pressure from a forearm could be applied from behind - from in front if the victim were backed against an object - or on the ground with the perpetrator on top of the victim

The victim in the Mail case lost consciousness. I'm not sure of the sequence, so don't know if she lost consciousness before or after trying to wrest the arm from around her neck. It could be that she momentarily lost consciousness, revived and then began trying to claw free of the arm

We haven't been told if JY had any scratches on her neck. It may be she simply lost consciousness. Some people are more prone than others. Blood supply to the brain could have been cut due to the pressure from the arm. Or ... she could have lost consciousness, had very faint pulse and may have died from cold if the perpetrator took the body outside. Perpetrator might have believed her to be dead when in fact it might have been possible to revive her. We don't know

 

[otto]

This makes it seem as though teams of dog walkers were almost walking around all sides and on top of her, though, and it places great faith in people's conviction that they would necessarily see something even if they weren't looking for it. She was off the road, near the entrance to the quarry, not in the middle of traffic. Looking down the road or to the other side, distracted by the dog, talking on the phone, or any number of other scenarios could mean missing her. Even a light cover of snow could make her body an indistinct shape.

If a walker was alone, he or she would most likely have been paying more attention to the surroundings than to be on the phone. I have to wonder if the walkers were walking on the road. The reporter that posted the story Saturday about being told to get off the road and not having 50p for the bridge ... she was told to get off the road when she stopped at the quarry entrance. Were the dog walkers actually on the trail on the other side of the road and not exactly walking by the quarry entrance during their walks - the Avon Bike Trail.

 

[Phillb]

One instance of the body not being seen on Christmas Day.

"Val and Gerry Thomas, also of Providence Lane, drove down Longwood Lane at 8.50am on Christmas Day, just 10 minutes before Miss Yeates' body was discovered.

Mrs Thomas said: "We saw a couple walking a dog but nothing else.

"By the time we came back after a church service at 12.45pm the road was closed by police."

http://www.thisissomerset.co.uk/news/Undefined-Headline/article-3041337-detail/article.html

Driving down Longwood Lane gives you a totally different perspective to driving up Longwood Lane.
Plus driving past, and walking past is a whole kettle of different fish.
Early doors 9 a.m on Christmas morning. It's a good bet to wager vast amounts on the dog walkers being the first to walk past that spot that day!

 

[enzeder]

I lightened this pic from the same video to show the curved tree trunk more clearly. Less leaves on the tree than the Google street view (2009) but I think that it's the same tree?.

 

[otto]

One instance of the body not being seen on Christmas Day.

"Val and Gerry Thomas, also of Providence Lane, drove down Longwood Lane at 8.50am on Christmas Day, just 10 minutes before Miss Yeates' body was discovered.

Mrs Thomas said: "We saw a couple walking a dog but nothing else.

"By the time we came back after a church service at 12.45pm the road was closed by police."

http://www.thisissomerset.co.uk/news/Undefined-Headline/article-3041337-detail/article.html

So she was probably lying down ...

"Police have confirmed they are treating the death of architect Joanna Yeates as "suspicious" after her snow-covered body was discovered on Christmas Day by a lonely rural lane on the edge of Bristol.

Officers revealed yesterday that no blood was found at the scene at Longwood Lane in the quiet village of Failand.

It is understood she was clothed and partially covered by leaves and snow. The body was found by a couple walking their dog."

(from your link)

 

[Phillb]

I lightened this pic from the same video to show the curved tree trunk more clearly. Less leaves on the tree than the Google street view (2009) but I think that it's the same tree?.

Do you think it possible, to show respect, and not subject the dog walkers to more trauma. That they moved away a few feet from the body, looking the other way to find out the details? They also don't want to contaminate the area. I think it's highly likely yes?

 

[laserdisc10]

Many of the earlier articles have stated that JY was found in a ditch near the entrance.

Looking at some very early photos and video screencaps which I have saved, here is where I think the approx. location of where JY body was placed?. Please bear in mind that this is a Google street view image (date stamped 2009)

This shot doesn't show the depth of the ditch unless you're looking for it. But if that ditch were say ten inches to one foot deep (and it could actually be considerably deeper) then it would accomodate a body. Then, snow would have fallen over everything. If the body within the ditch were a few inches lower than the surrounds, considerably more snow could have fallen over the body from tree branches above. To the observer, it would look like flat land with a covering of snow. They wouldn't need to 'see' or 'notice' the body -- because the body would be enclosed within the ditch. It would not project above the surrounding surface.

It makes perfect sense to me that the body could have lain within that ditch, covered in snow, and undetectable. Being in the already cold ditch, surrounded and covered by snow would create a 'freezer' effect upon the body. And it makes sense too that the mechanized lifting gear would have been used in such a situation. Otherwise, investigators would have had to dig the body out of the ditch, which would have damaged the body as well as destroying evidence

I think you've got it, Enzeder. I've never seen before the photo of the public at the scene -- well done -- and the curved tree pretty much clinches it