UK - Logan Mwangi, 5, found dead in Wales River, Bridgend, 31 July 2021 *arrests, inc. minor* #3

[Seattle1]

Perhaps it's just me but I really don't understand the repeated references to understanding the teen brain. The fact is--regardless of the age or development of the subject's brain, he's been charged with the offense of murder and perverting the course of justice in the Crown Court.

Unlike AW and JC that have given evidence that they medicate for various alleged medical conditions, we really know nothing about the teen.

Perhaps his biological mother lived with psychopathy and the court permanently removed him from her care because she refused to treat her disease. Perhaps the teen carries the same genetic variant. We don't know!

Whatever the circumstances, all we know for certain is that a vulnerable little boy perished in the most horrific way while exposed to three violent individuals ranging in age 14 - 39.

And if the Court did not believe all three defendants were mentally competent, they would not be in Court today.

 

[mrazda71]

Yet another person who wants to make a personal argument against me. Please stop. I am well aware of what neglect is. I know keenly what it is because I come from a background of abuse and neglect.

My point was - Logan did not suffer from a lack of provision that hundreds of thousands of children here in the UK every day do. He did not go to sleep with an empty belly because there was no food. He did not go to school barefoot because he had no shoes. He did not smell because he was not washed. He did not worry where he would sleep at night because his mother had no home. He did not have to sleep cold in the back of a car because his mother was made homeless. That is reality for children here in the UK. Logan was not affected by those issues.

His mother appeared to love him. She cuddled him, touched him, dressed him, fed him, washed him, showed affection, and raised him well. She did fail to protect him because of her delusion of a happy family and need for a man at all costs.

Logan was MURDERED by violent offenders inside his own home, abusers, predators, bullies, who groomed his vulnerable and inadequate mother into this situation over time.

The biggest neglect was perpetrated by social services.

BBM - This doesn't happen in the UK.

If you can provide reputable, recent (say, last 10 years) links to back up your statement I will gladly retract.

 

[katydid23]

Firstly I'm sorry for the experience you had.

Secondly, I'm not sure why you think I'm arguing that the youth isn't culpable or capable of making good or bad choices - I'm saying neither.

My point was very clear - at 13 he was violently beaten by his mother and removed from her care for HIS safety - He was the victim and no one should be inventing worst case scenarios that might make it okay for his mother to have done that to him.

Thirdly - another poster said that 14 year olds were "nearly grown men" and that is just in every way, false.

We need to stick to the facts, don't we?
Base our opinions on what little we know from the reporting... not make up inaccurate and baseless imaginings.

Fourteen year olds are wholly capable of understanding what happens if you shove a 5 yr old down the stairs. Fourteen yr olds are closer to adulthood than to young childhood. They are almost old enough to drive cars, sign contracts, get married, have children, join the armed forces. They are very close to adulthood, IMO.

 

[mrazda71]

Perhaps it's just me but I really don't understand the repeated references to understanding the teen brain. The fact is--regardless of the age or development of the subject's brain, he's been charged with the offense of murder and perverting the course of justice in the Crown Court.

Unlike AW and JC that have given evidence that they medicate for various alleged medical conditions, we really know nothing about the teen.

Perhaps his biological mother lived with psychopathy and the court permanently removed him from her care because she refused to treat her disease. Perhaps the teen carries the same genetic variant. We don't know!

Whatever the circumstances, all we know for certain is that a vulnerable little boy perished in the most horrific way while exposed to three violent individuals ranging in age 14 - 39.

And if the Court did not believe all three defendants were mentally competent, they would not be in Court today.

I really don't understand why you don't understand that no one has said that anyone wasn't competent to stand trial.

 

[seadawg]

I'm not really sure what Point you're trying to make?

The youth will have been assessed and deemed mentally capable of standing trial in an adult court.

We haven't been informed of any diagnosis for any of the defendants, least of all the child.

I personally, don't think we can really make any judgments on how savvy this boy is or not. For all we know, he could be unable to read or write but that wouldn't mean that he wouldn't know or be adept at lying if he was in trouble.

Some things are just human nature, especially in Children and even more so in children who've been raised in neglect, poverty and trauma. They are in survival mode.

Psychopathy is human nature.

Whether or not someone is a certifiable sociopath or psychopath, although it can sometimes (often) ve traced back to things like attachment disorder, relational trauma, extreme sexual abuse or violent abuse, does not make them less culpable or less dangerous to the public.

If anything, it makes them more dangerous as people who empathise with the traumatic backgrounds of abusive people are more likely to excuse, discard or ignore their dangerous bevahiour. Therapists, teachers or other safe people on the outskirts by all means can empathise but Social workers, Foster carers and anyone else responsible for parenting or giving boundaries to them need to detach themselves from the story and focus on the impact of the behaviour and requesting accountability from the young person in way of reparation of their own choice.

I am getting Aaron Campbell/Alisha Mcphail vibes from the youth in this court case.

 

[Seattle1]

I really don't understand why you don't understand that no one has said that anyone wasn't competent to stand trial.

To be clear, that is not what I said. Please don't misstate my post.

 

[Nemonemonemo]

There are different kinds of neglect. I knew a woman charged and convicted of wilful neglect. Her child was always (reasonably) clean, well fed, appropriately dressed etc. We saw her child every day. What we didn't know is that her home was dirty enough to warrant criminal charges. At least, that's what she told us. I've known people for whom failure to treat head lice was a reason to remove the children. Not the only reason, but the final straw.

I'm genuinely baffled that anyone could consider leaving a child with a broken clavicle anything other than gross neglect. I can't imagine how much pain he was in. A clavicle!

 

[Sooty]

Digital forensics
Prosecutor Caroline Rees QC is questioning Richard Andrews, a digital forensics examiner for South Wales Police.

Mr Andrews says he examined Angharad Williamson’s Google Cloud account.

Logan Mwangi murder trial - live updates

 

[Jay_Tec]

There are different kinds of neglect. I knew a woman charged and convicted of wilful neglect. Her child was always (reasonably) clean, well fed, appropriately dressed etc. We saw her child every day. What we didn't know is that her home was dirty enough to warrant criminal charges. At least, that's what she told us. I've known people for whom failure to treat head lice was a reason to remove the children. Not the only reason, but the final straw.

I'm genuinely baffled that anyone could consider leaving a child with a broken clavicle anything other than gross neglect. I can't imagine how much pain he was in. A clavicle!

I suppose it's an issue of semantics but is it neglect to make a decision to cover up a crime ? Or is it something else ?

Oddly, I know someone who lived as you described above. I knew her for many years. She had a son. She was always immaculately dressed and well groomed. She would never let me in her home and I assumed she had OCD or something. When I finally saw what was going on in the house, it was mindblowing - filthy, squalid, stank, infested, and crammed with rubbish, litter, junk. Like one of those extreme Hoarders programmes. But even then I don't know what one would call that sort of thing.

 

[Sooty]

App tests
Speaking about the tests, Mr Andrews said: "We ensured the phone was turned on and had an internet connection before doing any processes with the phone.

“Prior to any testing we would access the Google account and a download of the account, to show we are not changing anything.

Mr Andrews said he carried out tests related to the Barclays, Youtube and Dialer apps.

Logan Mwangi murder trial - live updates

 

[Seattle1]

Logan Mwangi murder trial - live updates

Logan Mwangi murder trial - live updates

29 March 2022

11:19CONOR GOGARTY

Tests
The prosecutor said: "The only record in your testing period of the Dialer app leaving a trace was as a result of deliberate user activity on the device?"

Mr Andrews said this was correct. He added: "On several sessions I opened the Dialer, went back to home screen, opened Dialer, went back to home screen. Those were not recorded in MyActivity but my last actions were. I cannot find any reference to why that is. I can only assume Google amalgamates that record as the last activity. I can only assume, to reduce the amount of data Google is holding."

He said his conclusion was that the Dialer app only left a trace if a user used the phone.

11:18CONOR GOGARTY

Dialer, Barclays and YouTube
Following several days of tests, Mr Andrews said that when he checked if his activity on Dialer, Barclays and Youtube had been recorded on Williamson's phone, "not all of my activity had been recorded".

He said: "I couldn't find any specific reason for it. I can only assume, looking at the data, it's only recording my last activity - the last time I opened the Youtube app, or the Dialer app."



11:16CONOR GOGARTY

App tests
Speaking about the tests, Mr Andrews said: "We ensured the phone was turned on and had an internet connection before doing any processes with the phone.

“Prior to any testing we would access the Google account and a download of the account, to show we are not changing anything.

Mr Andrews said he carried out tests related to the Barclays, Youtube and Dialer apps.

11:09CONOR GOGARTY

Digital forensics
Prosecutor Caroline Rees QC is questioning Richard Andrews, a digital forensics examiner for South Wales Police.

Mr Andrews says he examined Angharad Williamson’s Google Cloud account.

 

[Sooty]

Dialer, Barclays and YouTube
Following several days of tests, Mr Andrews said that when he checked if his activity on Dialer, Barclays and Youtube had been recorded on Williamson's phone, "not all of my activity had been recorded".

He said: "I couldn't find any specific reason for it. I can only assume, looking at the data, it's only recording my last activity - the last time I opened the Youtube app, or the Dialer app."

Logan Mwangi murder trial - live updates

 

[Sooty]

Tests
The prosecutor said: "The only record in your testing period of the Dialer app leaving a trace was as a result of deliberate user activity on the device?"

Mr Andrews said this was correct. He added: "On several sessions I opened the Dialer, went back to home screen, opened Dialer, went back to home screen. Those were not recorded in MyActivity but my last actions were. I cannot find any reference to why that is. I can only assume Google amalgamates that record as the last activity. I can only assume, to reduce the amount of data Google is holding."

He said his conclusion was that the Dialer app only left a trace if a user used the phone.

Logan Mwangi murder trial - live updates

 

[Sooty]

The minute they start talking tech my brain goes to sleep

 

[Seattle1]

Logan Mwangi murder trial - live updates

 

[RusselSprout]

Mobile dialer - Wikipedia

Im not certain this is it, but looks like an app to make free calls from a mobile.

 

[Kitkat28]

The biggest neglect was perpetrated by social services.

No, the biggest neglect was perpetrated by the parent and “parent” who were supposed to look after Logan. While I have very little time for social services, if parents didn’t abuse and neglect their children in the first place, there would be no need for them.

 

[SausageDog]

Fourteen year olds are wholly capable of understanding what happens if you shove a 5 yr old down the stairs. Fourteen yr olds are closer to adulthood than to young childhood. They are almost old enough to drive cars, sign contracts, get married, have children, join the armed forces. They are very close to adulthood, IMO.

sorry to jump in here but didn’t the stairs incident happen in August 2020? So the youth would have been 12/nearly 13 (he turned 14 since he was arrested)?

I’m not disagreeing that he shouldn’t have known right from wrong at that age and what would have known what would have happened if he shoved a small child down the stairs. However, I do politely disagree that you can compare him to an adult.

 

[SausageDog]

Fourteen year olds are wholly capable of understanding what happens if you shove a 5 yr old down the stairs. Fourteen yr olds are closer to adulthood than to young childhood. They are almost old enough to drive cars, sign contracts, get married, have children, join the armed forces. They are very close to adulthood, IMO.

sorry to jump in here but didn’t the stairs incident happen in August 2020? So the youth would have been 12/nearly 13 (he turned 14 since he was arrested)?

I’m not disagreeing that he shouldn’t have known right from wrong at that age and what would have known what would have happened if he shoved a small child down the stairs. However, I do politely disagree that you can compare him to an adult.

 

[Tortoise]

The minute they start talking tech my brain goes to sleep

These are the results of testing AW's phone because her defence argued that police had tested a Samsung phone but not AW's actual phone/same model.

To prove that the phone was actually being used and this wasn't the activity of Apps running in the background, I believe.