GUILTY UK - Mikaeel Kular, 3, Edinburgh, Scotland, 15 Jan 2014 - #3

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I'm thinking that maybe RK has hit Mikaeel with visual bruising......maybe the reason why he was not in nursery for fear of being reported.....
Also why she would not take him to a Dr or the hospital.....and he may have passed due to an injury .....

Don't know if that would be plausible If injuries from, say , a few weeks before could cause his death.
 
I work in a school and cases I know of which have resulted in a child being put in touch with Social Services and/or taken into care were long-term neglect (children always dirty, matted hair with head lice, dirty clothes, thin etc), a case where a parent had been violent towards a child and caused injuries, a case where drug use and dealing was done within the family home with children present and another where a child had been injured when left alone with a glass object nearby (badly cut on broken glass). Also, some parents would voluntarily place their children into care.

Thank you, yes, I just did a little background reading, and found these articles in the Irish Independent:

Independent.ie said:
Neglect is top reason children taken into care.

THE most common reason for children to be taken into care is neglect, often compounded by substance abuse or mental illness. A new report has also found that African families are '20 times more likely' to wind up in the child care courts, with abuse the common trigger.

The first Interim Report of the Child Care Law Reporting Project, launched today by Chief Justice Susan Denham analysed data collected from 333 cases between December 2012 and July 2013.

It found just ten per cent of the cases concern married parents. Almost half of the cases involved single mothers while the rest were co-habiting or separated, including formerly cohabiting couples.

There were 3,358 children in care on foot of court orders in 2011 however a further 2,797 children were in voluntary care, mostly with relatives.

One in five of the children taken into care have special needs, usually psychological or educational.

The report expressed concern over the 'disproportionate number of African children who were the subject of proceedings, representing 11 per cent of the total number of cases, rising to 14 per cent in Dublin.

Some of the children were unaccompanied minors or had been abandoned in Ireland by their parents. Amongst the cases were three older African children abandoned by their parents or trafficked here by people purporting to be their parents and who were "grateful" to end up in foster care.

Others were the children of residents of direct provision centres who suffered mental breakdowns and were hospitalised, leaving the children without a carer.

In some cases, the children came to the attention of social services, typically after teachers spotted bruising.

Project director, Dr Carol Coulter said the prevalence of African families raises questions about the impact of direct provision on children's welfare, about our integration strategy for immigrants and the need to ensure that our child protection system is understood.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/neglect-is-top-reason-children-taken-into-care-29728510.html

Independent.ie said:
Tragic toddler Mikaeel Kular 'was put into foster care'.

The three-year-old boy whose mother has been charged with his death is said to have been put into foster care because of concerns about his welfare.

Three-year-old Mikaeel Kular, whose body was found after he went missing from his Edinburgh home, was put into foster care, it has been claimed.

His mother, Rosadeep Kular, appeared at court on Monday charged with his murder.

The youngster, who was found more than 30 miles away from his home on Friday night, is said to have been put into foster care because of concerns for his welfare.

Ziggy Ford and her husband cared for the boy, one of five children, who it is claimed was returned to his mother after social workers thought she could cope.

A friend of the 49-year-old told The Sun: “They took him on a short-term basis. They loved him like he was their own son.”

Social workers from Fife Council were said to be in regular contact with Kular, 31, and her five children when they lived in Kirkcaldy before moving to Edinburgh 18 months ago.
http://www.independent.ie/world-new...-kular-was-put-into-foster-care-29936032.html
 
I work in a school and cases I know of which have resulted in a child being put in touch with Social Services and/or taken into care were long-term neglect (children always dirty, matted hair with head lice, dirty clothes, thin etc), a case where a parent had been violent towards a child and caused injuries, a case where drug use and dealing was done within the family home with children present and another where a child had been injured when left alone with a glass object nearby (badly cut on broken glass). Also, some parents would voluntarily place their children into care.

I've known of domestic abuse to also be a cause - dad was beating on mom and taking all of her money giving her a set amount of money each week for groceries etc. Children were fed and clothes adequately but ss deemed the home environment to be unsuitable. Children were placed in foster care. Mom regained them once she had left abusive partner

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I wonder if Rosdeep's mother might have reported something.

I have been wondering this myself. That might explain why Rosdeep wouldn't feel like she could go to her mother for help if she was struggling with the children or just with Mikaeel.

She would hardly want to turn to the person who reported her previously. She will most likely have felt betrayed by her mother if she was the person who reported her to Social Services in the first place & of course, as a GP, her mothers report would be taken seriously whether completely founded or not.

Of course, this is all speculation but I'm wondering who you would turn to for help & support if you felt your family were responsible for you losing custody of your children prior?

I'm still not seeing neglect here as I think if that were the case then I'm sure all the children would have been removed. I'm thinking it may have been more that she may have felt overwhelmed with so many children to care for & the youngest ones were removed until she felt better able to cope.
 
I have been wondering this myself. That might explain why Rosdeep wouldn't feel like she could go to her mother for help if she was struggling with the children or just with Mikaeel.

She would hardly want to turn to the person who reported her previously. She will most likely have felt betrayed by her mother if she was the person who reported her to Social Services in the first place & of course, as a GP, her mothers report would be taken seriously whether completely founded or not.

Of course, this is all speculation but I'm wondering who you would turn to for help & support if you felt your family were responsible for you losing custody of your children prior?

I'm still not seeing neglect here as I think if that were the case then I'm sure all the children would have been removed. I'm thinking it may have been more that she may have felt overwhelmed with so many children to care for & the youngest ones were removed until she felt better able to cope.

I remember seeing neighbours saying things like " he was always by his mother's side", so perhaps he was very clingy and demanding and took a lot of her time and attention. I had one like that, it was very hard work. At parent and child sessions, he'd cling to my leg and not move away from me the entire time. If i needed to go to the toilet, he'd be crying the other side of the door. He followed me everywhere. He didn't sleep well either, waking 10 - 15 times a night until he was 3 and then didn't sleep through the night until he started full-time school.

I can remember being so tired that I could have happily given him away just to get some sleep! The doctor wouldn't give him anything to help him sleep, and I couldn't take anything obviously, as i needed to be alert for him and his other brothers. In the end I had to pay someone to have him 3 hours a day, twice a week, just to have a break from him.

I can imagine that a very clingy, demanding child might lead to you resenting them or, perhaps, loosing your temper with them. Obviously its not right, and I'm not condoning that sort of thing, but I think there is often a very thin line between coping with it and loosing it.

I'm lucky that I could cope, and now he is a teenager he is a lot less demanding :)

MOO.

ETA I don't think Mikaeel looks ill-treated or neglected from his photos, but he does look tired. That is just my opinion, but he does look to have bags under his eyes (in the link on WS to this page). I wonder if he did have a problem sleeping?

Again just MOO.
 
I'm lucky that I could cope, and now he is a teenager he is a lot less demanding :)

Thank you for giving me a smile in the middle of this sorry thread - I just imagined a huge great teenager clinging to your leg and crying outside the bathroom door! :D
 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ld-boy-to-appear-in-court-over-his-death.html

In the photo in the link above , of Mikaeel.....looks like bruising IMO......
But then why take a selfie?

Could be just the light......

http://i3.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article3030305.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/Mikaeel-Kular-main-2-3030305.jpg

In that picture (left) he looks to have a substantial scar on the back of his neck.

Again, could be the light.

ETA - or of course just an innocent accident.
 
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/mikaeel-kular-death-forensics-search-3042743


Fifth paragraph underneath the photo says police are paying particular attention to a small patch next to three prominent trees

From other aerial photos that have been shown, there are 3 very dense trees behind the adjacent neighbour's fence.....could explain why Mikaeel was placed there ( if he was ) rather than being placed directly behind the family bungalow

I am wondering about what else the police are investigating. If Mikaeel was just taken and placed in a suitcase in the woodland and the police recovered that, I would have thought the forensic examination of the area would be quite straightforward.
 
According to neighbours, Rosdeep, her five children, Pandeep and her one son all lived under the same roof at the house in Dunvegan Avenue which was the focus of yesterday’s investigations.

Rosdeep and her children only moved to their new home at Ferry Gait Crescent in Drylaw, Edinburgh, around 18 months ago.

The twins must have been put in foster care either just before the move or soon after.

Did the family alert social services after Rosedeep moved-did Rosedeep move away from her sister because her sister did not approve of her clubbing and drinking. I wonder if her sister offered to look after the twins.
 
I think she may have been on social services case before she moved, and moved away to escape them after she got him back maybe?
I know for a fact (after coming out of domestic violence relationship and moving away with my child)) that once you move, social services do not check up on you.

I wanted to attend some DV after help courses for abused women etc and my social worker in London said they had passed the relevant info to my current city's social services to deal with.
Yet I never heard anything, no support, no check up to make sure I definitely was safe now where I am etc.
It just made me think gosh, it's a good job I am safe and a good mother to my child because If that wasn't the case, and I was a bad mother, I could pretty much do what I want I want and un-monitored now! (This was 4 years ago now). No wonder social services miss things!

If she's moved away After the SS were involved and after mikaeel was handed back, then essentially I feel the same could have happened to her - new area new social services team, but would she be made aware to SS in her new area about her past involvements with SS? .. Probably not imo!

So if she wasn't coping in her new home, the worry of going back to SS and potentially losing mikaeel to them, probably made things worse. she was in a new area, away from family, in a flat now with no space to breath, 5 kids, lots of stress, which ultimately made this mother do the unthinkable - kill her child. This is probably why she made up a lie, she thought she could out smart the police and everyone really, just so that SHE didn't look bad, for what she had done.

Really can't wait for results on this one guys. It's so upsetting what happened to this little boy, but I'm just looking forward to a bit of closure on it all.

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I think she may have been on social services case before she moved, and moved away to escape them after she got him back maybe?
I know for a fact (after coming out of domestic violence relationship and moving away with my child)) that once you move, social services do not check up on you.

I wanted to attend some DV after help courses for abused women etc and my social worker in London said they had passed the relevant info to my current city's social services to deal with.
Yet I never heard anything, no support, no check up to make sure I definitely was safe now where I am etc.
It just made me think gosh, it's a good job I am safe and a good mother to my child because If that wasn't the case, and I was a bad mother, I could pretty much do what I want I want and un-monitored now! (This was 4 years ago now). No wonder social services miss things!

If she's moved away After the SS were involved and after mikaeel was handed back, then essentially I feel the same could have happened to her - new area new social services team, but would she be made aware to SS in her new area about her past involvements with SS? .. Probably not imo! <snip>

Yes, it happens in the mental health services as well. I don't have experience with social services, but I was having some CBT for an anxiety problem a few years ago, and then had to move city/health authority, there was no follow-up whatsoever, they don't give a monkey's once you're off their patch.

I've got a strong feeling that's what happened with social services in Edinburgh/Kirkcaldy. We'll probably be seeing an inquiry in a year from now. I may just puke if 'lessons will be learned' is wheeled out again.
 
And not much more they're even allowed to say with our strict non-reporting laws for cases awaiting trial.

I think many non British people get a bit confused by it, but there is more or less a news black out which extends to the internet too. Even her photo has to be pixilated now ( slightly pointless now though).
 
Two communities unite for tragic Mikaeel Kular as they plan a balloon tribute to the three-year-old

1qgb.jpg


MORE than 1000 people are expected to line the river banks in Edinburgh and Fife to launch balloons on Friday. The event will link for the first time the people of Drylaw, where Mikaeel lived, and those in Kirkcaldy, where he used to stay and where his body was found.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/two-communities-unite-tragic-mikaeel-3048053

hc87.jpg
 
According to neighbours, Rosdeep, her five children, Pandeep and her one son all lived under the same roof at the house in Dunvegan Avenue which was the focus of yesterday’s investigations.

Rosdeep and her children only moved to their new home at Ferry Gait Crescent in Drylaw, Edinburgh, around 18 months ago.

The twins must have been put in foster care either just before the move or soon after.

Did the family alert social services after Rosedeep moved-did Rosedeep move away from her sister because her sister did not approve of her clubbing and drinking. I wonder if her sister offered to look after the twins.

I wonder if the twins were put in care due to the drug-gang related death of Rosie's close friend? Or due to her involvement with these people?
 
MsFacetious - that is such a beautiful idea of the people of Drylaw and Kirkcaldy. I have a tear in my eye :(
 
Does anyone know why she might not have entered a plea? I was thinking she would declare herself "not guilty" but she hasn't. Is this a legal strategy of some kind? does anyone who is legally minded know?
 

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