Found Deceased UK - Nicola Bulley Last Seen Walking Dog Near River - St Michaels on Wyre (Lancashire) #14

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I think the menopause is a bit of a red herring in a way, it could have been the symptoms of any difficult to cope with chronic health condition it's unfortunate that it is a condition that is only experienced by women as I think people have interpreted LE releasing that as having some value judgement (I haven't personally experienced it like that, more that they felt backed into a corner by media circus but I can understand why it doesn't sit well) but if she had also been experiencing chronic pain/insomnia/fatigue etc etc then drinking to cope and struggling with your mood as a result is really common and understandable.
I don’t believe it is a red herring but I agree with your post otherwise.
I think that this Peri Menopause information release can also be turned into a positive for other women who are struggling but because it’s still a subject that is not really recognised by wider society as a problem for SOME women, not all, it may help them to see just how much people do understand and to come forth and speak out, seek help without embarrassment of being judged .

The menopause has been life changing for me and not in a good way . There have been days when I too have felt like seriously walking away from my overwhelming life, after feeling so debilitated by the many symptoms of the menopause that i have been suffering since age 39 and I’m now almost 53 and it’s still not over .
 
There's other situations in the UK where I'd imagine it's very common, eg say you've not been able to get hold of an elderly neighbour and noticed they haven't opened their curtains that morning but essentially any situation where you have a concern for someones welfare but it's not necessarily a crime or a medical emergency I'd imagine.
I work in the NHS in an admin role. Yes indeed the Police can indeed do Welfare Checks on vulnerable/elderly folk. No sinister reason these checks are simply to make sure all is well, no falls or serious illness etc. In certain circumstances they can do a welfare check if a patient returns a very serious blood test result with potentially life-threatening implications and no one can get hold of them.
 
The SIO appears to be a lady of a similar age to NB. I think I saw that she’s been with the police for 29y so would roughly fit.
I would hope that she would understand more than most perhaps Nicola’s point of view with regards perimenopause or factors facing ladies in their mid-late 40s.
I can’t imagine it’s been done thoughtlessly or without full cognition of the consequences.
I hope they have tried to trigger the public giving more information.
I wonder if maybe bursting the “perfect family” bubble would make people more likely to come forward with information without feeling that they would be betraying Nicola or Paul or the girls or their families.
 
you completely misunderstood - they also added that they have NB's phone that is how they are analyzing her fb account
Please, you’re about the sixth person to have explained this to me. I thanked the first person for politely explaining it to me, so I can only assume you haven’t read through this thread.

The reason I was confused by the police officer’s words was that she used incorrect tenses in her phrase:

“Just to be clear on further digital enquiries, there is further work that we have been doing on NIcola’s social media this morning which might show NIcola has been online.”

She’s used past, present and future. When police officers make public television statements, they should be precise. Whilst I’m well aware that police can search a person’s social media remotely, and the account could show the account owner as being online whilst its being searched, the police officer used poor wording. Due to her wrong usage of tenses, what she said could have meant that NIcola has been online since disappearing.

I’m certainly not illiterate, nor am I stupid, and I now realise exactly what the officer meant. This is just another example of how confusing the whole case has been since the beginning, and the dreadful shambles it’s become due to unprofessional communications given out.

If anyone reads this post please don’t correct me again as it’s now been established exactly what the officer meant.

Thank you.
 
Apologies if this has been covered. I kept up to date with the first couple of weeks but have fallen behind on this forum over the past few days. I guess the recent revelation explain why PA was reported to have visited a property shortly after NB went missing. Can’t find the MSM link. So JMO.
 
He said he 'came down' but he doesn't mention any interaction whatsoever as I'm fairly sure he said that N also put the girls and Willow in the car even tho she drove them that day.
I’m sorry, but the way he tries to explain?! It just confuses me. He’s trying to explain and I am trying to make sense of what it is he’s trying to explain. I totally get the severity of what he must be going through, but I can’t make sense of it! It’s like he’s not speaking in full sentences or maybe at this point in time he’s not in the right mind set. His brain is full of thoughts and he can’t find the right words? I’m not being mean in any way, he’s just not being very clear JMO
 
Well, yes., but they have a duty to act if there is a suggestion of somebody being at risk of harm - I've had welfare checks carried on me for genuine mental and physical health issues; I've also had them after a malicious report in a situation where actually there was no reason to be concerned for my wellbeing.

Sorry, going off topic a bit
It doesn't mean one will be carried out though. This is a different Police force but I doubt it's much different between them.



 
Apologies if this has been covered. I kept up to date with the first couple of weeks but have fallen behind on this forum over the past few days. I guess the recent revelation explain why PA was reported to have visited a property shortly after NB went missing. Can’t find the MSM link. So JMO.
Good luck catching up :)
 
Hi Tallmansix
I respectfully disagree.
This is a brief summary that I wrote earlier for another publication. I was limited to 1000 characters so I couldn’t put in as much as I wanted to say but it certainly gives you a different perspective, if you care to read it.

——-/////——-

As an SIO, I agree with this information released, albeit not the timing of it sadly.

It would be with the families consent to generate leads/sightings.

It's not a decision taken lightly,but it's been so long now, she is still missing and it's necessary as a last resort.

By publicising this ,it's a possibility that she's 'run' from her current life, overwhelmed, unable to cope, using alcohol to do so.

The public can now look for her with hope that she has walked away as opposed to unalived herself. We can be vigilant to try and find her ,wether that be on our streets, at alcohol establishments or even well women clinics and menopausal support groups.

As the Dive specialist said, it would have been better knowing this information from the start It alters the investigative strategy .

Personally, I find it unpalatable that this info has been released but I understand it's necessity in the absence of Nicola's whereabouts.

Every SIO has their own investigation style. Personally, I would have conducted this very differently to LanPol..

Thank you for your input AT .
 
How much do you think the social media / Tik Tok / youtube and certain parts of the media has influenced what Lancs have done maybe compared to what they would normally do?
It is difficult to say tbh. I don’t think the constant finger pointing towards her partner has helped nor been fair and the other conspiracy theories that people have been propagating locally .
Lancs were the neighbouring Force to me and I often found their way of working - hmmm different shall I say .
This has been dealt with in a shambolic way. The initial Supt ( Riley I think I recall) was in over her head and not trained sufficiently to be the SIO. Unfortunately, IMOO, they were too bull headed to say that they got the strategy wrong from the start. It absolutely should have been the CID taking charge of this investigation and this now shows because of the way things have been handled and shows a lack of experience in the Uniformed Supt to lead and be the SIO of such a complex misper.
They have put their eggs all in the same basket which should never have been the case . Even if she is eventually found in the water , doesn’t make their strategy right and there should have been other theories of her disappearance considered and acted upon . That has been their major flaw . They are now jointly leading the investigation having both a uniform and a Detective Chief SIO working together . This can be productive but if it was happening in my policing area, the SIO would be a Detective with the CID taking ownership from the initial 24hr review by officers initial attending at the very latest.
 
Hi Tallmansix
I respectfully disagree.
This is a brief summary that I wrote earlier for another publication. I was limited to 1000 characters so I couldn’t put in as much as I wanted to say but it certainly gives you a different perspective, if you care to read it.

——-/////——-

As an SIO, I agree with this information released, albeit not the timing of it sadly.

It would be with the families consent to generate leads/sightings.

It's not a decision taken lightly,but it's been so long now, she is still missing and it's necessary as a last resort.

By publicising this ,it's a possibility that she's 'run' from her current life, overwhelmed, unable to cope, using alcohol to do so.

The public can now look for her with hope that she has walked away as opposed to unalived herself. We can be vigilant to try and find her ,wether that be on our streets, at alcohol establishments or even well women clinics and menopausal support groups.

As the Dive specialist said, it would have been better knowing this information from the start It alters the investigative strategy .

Personally, I find it unpalatable that this info has been released but I understand it's necessity in the absence of Nicola's whereabouts.

Every SIO has their own investigation style. Personally, I would have conducted this very differently to LanPol..

Thanks @Angleterre

As a SIO what would you have done differently?

I agree this is a last roll of the dice type decision
 
It is difficult to say tbh. I don’t think the constant finger pointing towards her partner has helped nor been fair and the other conspiracy theories that people have been propagating locally .
Lancs were the neighbouring Force to me and I often found their way of working - hmmm different shall I say .
This has been dealt with in a shambolic way. The initial Supt ( Riley I think I recall) was in over her head and not trained sufficiently to be the SIO. Unfortunately, IMOO, they were too bull headed to say that they got the strategy wrong from the start. It absolutely should have been the CID taking charge of this investigation and this now shows because of the way things have been handled and shows a lack of experience in the Uniformed Supt to lead and be the SIO of such a complex misper.
They have put their eggs all in the same basket which should never have been the case . Even if she is eventually found in the water , doesn’t make their strategy right and there should have been other theories of her disappearance considered and acted upon . That has been their major flaw . They are now jointly leading the investigation having both a uniform and a Detective Chief SIO working together . This can be productive but if it was happening in my policing area, the SIO would be a Detective with the CID taking ownership from the initial 24hr review by officers initial attending at the very latest.
Thank you for this and your previous post, very interesting to get another SIO point of view.
 
Thanks @Angleterre

As a SIO what would you have done differently?

I agree this is a last roll of the dice type decision
I will copy and paste a very rough draft reply that took me about 2 minutes to type out when my friend asked me over chat yesterday morning….. please understand THIS WAS PRE THE DISCLOSURE OF THE MENOPAUSE / ALCOHOL issues and VULNERABILITIES as stated in the press conference later that day and it was a rushed reply and not a a professional reply -see below
———////———-
Occam’s razor says that she is in the water however I’m led to believe that it is only shallow water at the part where she would have fallen in (18”) unless she was launched in by someone forcibly pushing her and she landed in the middle of the river which is 2/3 feet deep ?

But the river is not a fast flower river according to one expert report and yet another says that it is?

Also, the Police college at Bramshill have a directory of expertise in every possible and conceivable subject matter that you could think of.

Therefore, it would be easily calculated as to the different locations that she may be if in the water , as to where about. This will be done using physics and mathematical equations and taking different data for example:

1. Calculating how far her body would be carried by the water (if at all) if she just fell or slipped in, based upon her weight and clothing worn and the flow of the river and the depth of the river and the time since she ingressed .

2. Another calculation would be based upon the same data but adding in the temp of the water and rate of decomposition and then at what stage, the body is likely to rise to the top of the water as the gasses in the body go through the putrefaction stages.

3. All these calculations will be applied but changing the data variables so adding in the fact that she was pushed into the water as opposed to slipped so they would use all the same data but this time using the submersion of her body in 2/3ft water as opposed to 18”.

They will just keep alternating all the different variables of the data to give you an idea as to how far her body may have travelled and wether it has reached the estuary or sea .

Having said that , if I were in charge of the investigation , I would recreate a fall into the water at the depth of a slip into
It at a depth of 18” and then conversely at a depth of 2/3 feet using a weighted dummy to the weight of her and dressed in the identical clothing that she wore on the crucial day and doing so in the same weather conditions and same water flow rate as the day she disappeared .

I have concerns about tunnel vision by the SIO but as an insider, what leaps out to me is that after the first 48 hrs of this being a missing person from home ( MFH ) this SHOULD HAVE ABSOLUTELY BEEN DEEMED A POTENTIAL CRIME AND THEN HANDED OVER TO THE CID SIO ( me ).

That’s because the cid have the expertise and if they haven’t then they know where to get it.

It stinks to me that there is a huge communication breakdown between the Gold command of the CID and the gold command of the UNIFORM dept

There are some very important lines of enquiry which MUST be done within the initial ‘golden hours’ of the investigation and within no more than 48 hrs of the investigation being commenced.

Now for all we know, this may have had but I’m skeptical:

1. Ping phone for locations up to 30 min prior to the last known location to see if it was in fact in that same location for 30 mins or had it only arrived 5 min before? ( in other words staged….)

2. Fit bit data checked which will let you know if there was a spike in heart rate at any point before her disappearance? To ascertain if something of significant took place. Also to ascertain if she was 100% wearing it from location history because it’s been said that she was but in until she is found , we wouldn’t know for certain .

3. Ascertain who was in the area , not just that day but go back a week beforehand.

This will give you an idea if any unusual characters hanging around or any dummy run if her disappearance has been staged by herself or others .

This can be done by data dump of mobile phones in the area each day for a one week period during the specific period of 0900-0930 .

It can also be done by witnesses being asked to come forward.

4. There should have been a joint press conference with the police and her husband.

5. There should be a potential re enactment after the first week or two on the same day of the week that she allegedly went missing at the same specific time period.

6. E fit compiled of the suspicious person seen in the area recently.

7. All the occupants of the caravan park nearby to be spoken to and search warrants enacted in each caravan .

8. Marital life investigated

9. Employment position investigated

10. Medical details Investigated for potential suicide indicators

11. Mobile devices and home computers to be looked at with regards to search history, text messages, Snapchat, WhatsApp, Instagram, Facebook,emails , photographs and location history informed etc

12. CCTV- we know one pertaining camera not working- since when? Fault ? Reported ?
Do a funnelled stop of all vehicles going through the main route near to the river exactly one week later on the same day and time parameters of her disappearance , ascertaining if they have dash cam and if this is a regular route and did they witness anything ?

13. Engage search parameters and send in POLSA ( expertise search)

14. Engage house to house parameters and allocate resources to complete H-H and ensure PDF’s are completed ( personal description forms of each person living at address )

15. All ports bulletin issued, passport office enquiries, Travel agents enquiries, airline manifestos checked

16. Banking of her and her husband to be viewed for anomalies

17. Foot wear cast impressions of any footprints in the soil around the bench where last seen

18. Dogs for tracking

19. DNA swabs of the harness , lead, phone etc

20. Landline call history viewed for parameters set time period ( ie 1 month preceding disappearance)

These are just off the top of my head

The actual reasons for disappearance that I would be looking at :

1. Fall into water

2.Crime - pushed into water or

3. Abduction?

4.kidnapping ?

5.Suicide?

6.Familial involvement- is there a potential history of Domestic Violence ( husband always top of the list )

7. Voluntary disappearance- ( I have a gut feeling about this ). Was she in financial trouble or under investigation at work as a mortgage advisor and broker ? Did she go for her usual dog walk the preceding day with a-backpack containing a change of clothes/coat/footwear/wig/hat/glasses and left in dense undergrowth by rear of the bench overnight.

Following daily dog walk, she replaced her outfit with disguised outfit and utilised the backpack to carry her discarded clothes?
Does she have relatives in a different part of this or another country?

Is she vulnerable in any way ?

Are there any reasons to support a voluntary disappearance?

It seems to me that all eggs are in one basket of the water and it’s not even being mentioned about the potential for suicide or voluntary disappearance……..
 
It is difficult to say tbh. I don’t think the constant finger pointing towards her partner has helped nor been fair and the other conspiracy theories that people have been propagating locally .
Lancs were the neighbouring Force to me and I often found their way of working - hmmm different shall I say .
This has been dealt with in a shambolic way. The initial Supt ( Riley I think I recall) was in over her head and not trained sufficiently to be the SIO. Unfortunately, IMOO, they were too bull headed to say that they got the strategy wrong from the start. It absolutely should have been the CID taking charge of this investigation and this now shows because of the way things have been handled and shows a lack of experience in the Uniformed Supt to lead and be the SIO of such a complex misper.
They have put their eggs all in the same basket which should never have been the case . Even if she is eventually found in the water , doesn’t make their strategy right and there should have been other theories of her disappearance considered and acted upon . That has been their major flaw . They are now jointly leading the investigation having both a uniform and a Detective Chief SIO working together . This can be productive but if it was happening in my policing area, the SIO would be a Detective with the CID taking ownership from the initial 24hr review by officers initial attending at the very latest.
Probably a difficult question but Angleterre.... do you think they will find anything. I know this is distasteful but I ask this with regard to her children... I just find the thought of them going through life, never knowing, no answers etc just so terribly sad. In my own view, even if remains were to be found a funeral and a goodbye could be said. I cannot even comprehend going through life not knowing the end of my late parents... that is what really tears me up about this.
 
I searched and couldn't find this mentioned before.
Could the water bottle she was carrying that morning be a clue that she was planning on taking an overdose?
No idts I carry a water bottle everywhere
I searched and couldn't find this mentioned before.
Could the water bottle she was carrying that morning be a clue that she was planning on taking an overdose?
I have no words. I deleted my first response.
I, as well have a water bottle with me often.
 
I’ve heard of this a few times too! Patients having their doors broken down because of a dangerous blood result but they’ve not been in (hence not answering the door) & got home and thought they’d
Hi Tallmansix
I respectfully disagree.
This is a brief summary that I wrote earlier for another publication. I was limited to 1000 characters so I couldn’t put in as much as I wanted to say but it certainly gives you a different perspective, if you care to read it.

——-/////——-

As an SIO, I agree with this information released, albeit not the timing of it sadly.

It would be with the families consent to generate leads/sightings.

It's not a decision taken lightly,but it's been so long now, she is still missing and it's necessary as a last resort.

By publicising this ,it's a possibility that she's 'run' from her current life, overwhelmed, unable to cope, using alcohol to do so.

The public can now look for her with hope that she has walked away as opposed to unalived herself. We can be vigilant to try and find her ,wether that be on our streets, at alcohol establishments or even well women clinics and menopausal support groups.

As the Dive specialist said, it would have been better knowing this information from the start It alters the investigative strategy .

Personally, I find it unpalatable that this info has been released but I understand it's necessity in the absence of Nicola's whereabouts.

Every SIO has their own investigation style. Personally, I would have conducted this very differently to LanPol..
So would it be ok for me to think that NB had a “drinking buddy”? And that could be where she has “run” to? I guess maybe like a bad influence? This is maybe another thing to think about instead of the river? JMO MOO
 
Ahh, apologies, my post wasn't really aimed at you, per se. Most of the press are gutter, sensationalist rubbish, and its divisive, they turn people against people. I remember the Claudia Lawrence case very well, I had to go to York University to visit a facility, not long after her disappearance, and yes, I remember some drivel thrown out by the gutter press, along the lines of her seeing a few different men, as if she's not allowed to do that. It was almost like a subtext of her deserving to disappear, because she might have seen a few guys, whereas a guy seeing a few girls might be considered a stud, or player.
No problem, I didn't take your comment personally :)
The context of this stemmed originally further back in this thread by member (Cottonweaver) who picked up on and commented that a tabloid stuck a couple of photos of NB with drinks in her hand on their ' big splash' ( Look like family's social media posts from a celebration/selfies. ) and that was what I responded to. It's disturbing how low the press can sink when they hook into someone
 
Absolutely not the case at all. Perimenopause can only be diagnosed through symptoms. Blood tests are completely useless because hormones are fluctuating so much. The definition of actual menopause is when periods have completely stopped. Anything before this is Perimenopause and there is a list of around 30 recognised symptoms.
I would imagine she must have had a blood test to check her hormone levels (I’ve had one myself), otherwise her GP wouldn’t have prescribed her HRT. I’m not sure on this, but I thought HRT was only given when you’re actually menopausal, I didn’t know it was given if you’re peri-menopausal.

Whatever, her GP obviously has all her medical history.

I know you can’t go by the occasional photo on social media, but in the few photos I’ve seen, including recent ones where the family went to Center Parks looking idyllically happy, plus the fitness photos and Fitbit tracking she did, she certainly didn’t seem like she had a big drinking problem. She looked fit, healthy, well turned-out, fresh-faced and very happy.

Maybe this so-called drinking problem has been exaggerated? Some people think anyone who has, say, two glasses of wine a night has a drinking problem…so it could be all pulled out of proportion IMO.
 
It is difficult to say tbh. I don’t think the constant finger pointing towards her partner has helped nor been fair and the other conspiracy theories that people have been propagating locally .
Lancs were the neighbouring Force to me and I often found their way of working - hmmm different shall I say .
This has been dealt with in a shambolic way. The initial Supt ( Riley I think I recall) was in over her head and not trained sufficiently to be the SIO. Unfortunately, IMOO, they were too bull headed to say that they got the strategy wrong from the start. It absolutely should have been the CID taking charge of this investigation and this now shows because of the way things have been handled and shows a lack of experience in the Uniformed Supt to lead and be the SIO of such a complex misper.
They have put their eggs all in the same basket which should never have been the case . Even if she is eventually found in the water , doesn’t make their strategy right and there should have been other theories of her disappearance considered and acted upon . That has been their major flaw . They are now jointly leading the investigation having both a uniform and a Detective Chief SIO working together . This can be productive but if it was happening in my policing area, the SIO would be a Detective with the CID taking ownership from the initial 24hr review by officers initial attending at the very latest.
Thanks @Angleterre - very interesting, as was your previous post.
 
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