Found Deceased UK - Nicola Bulley Last Seen Walking Dog Near River - St Michaels on Wyre (Lancashire), Jan 2023 #18

[Lincoln34]

I'm not sure what we're agreeing or disagreeing on but the ongoing forensic investigation should put everyone straight once and for all on what happened to poor Nicola that day IMO

As the body was released to family so soon , does this rule out any criminal involvement ? See link below.

My late Mother died suddenly in her nursing home whilst eating a yoghurt. She had severe osteoporosis and her spine was bent over. The paramedics told my sister they thought it odd and when I discussed with coroner he did order a PM - no suspicious circs found ( lack of care was suspected) and the body was released quickly once that ruled out. ( the home was furious about the pm - first they had had ever - but she had lost a lot of weight and for the sake of the other residents and peace of mind I wanted to be sure and coroner agreed)



Details of postmortem practice and release of body

 

[Lindengracht]

But is it not also possible that the body was washed backwards and forwards eventually getting caught in the reeds?
Or that it was there all the time but missed in searches.

I haven't seen any evidence of tidewaters flowing upstream as far east as St. Michael's.
And strictly speaking the body can't have been there "all the time". It may have taken the river days to deposit the it there. There must have been a period in which a PF-type 1 mile search could have located it with a little more luck.
Hydraulic experiments with a bodylike object in the river Wyre might throw some light on what really happened, but these will of course not be carried out.

 

[Nikynoo]

Although it's the common theory that she drowned, the actual cause of death has not yet been confirmed and speculation continues until an official announcement is made. No one knows how long she had been in the reeds, whether she had drifted there or was placed there after LE announced they'd stepped down the river search a couple of days previously. The spot where she was found is the closest point to the road with a layby right opposite so it's heightened the speculation JMO

I can assure you that N was not placed in the reeds after the police announced where they were continuing to search. If that had been the case, the inquest would have been adjourned until police investigations continued.

I have to point out again, that where she was found was the only place that had a fallen tree and/or substantial debris near the edge of the river. If the tree hadn’t been there she would have been found somewhere else. IMO

 

[Cluella DeVille]

As has been explained a lot of times, the body is below the surface for the first weeks, then floats to the surface where it can become snagged - this has happened in countless other cases.

Take Liam Colgan in the Elbe for example - a very similar 'mystery' when locals knew he'd turn up in the spring. Bodies end up being spotted by the public when they get snagged on something. It is very possible the divers and sonar simply missed her - this happened recently in the UK and was discussed as well.

What created the 'mystery' was irresponsible reporting and claims.

There was in fact, no mystery. Rather there existed all along a slim chance that she wasn't in the river - that possibility was then extinguished.

The thing is if she had gone in the water around the bench area, the approach to the weir is very shallow and a body would need to surface in order to get over the weir. Once it has surfaced it would stay afloat and with all the daily activity along the river and the ongoing searches she would have been seen. That's why it's been such a mystery

 

[Cluella DeVille]

I can assure you that N was not placed in the reeds after the police announced where they were continuing to search. If that had been the case, the inquest would have been adjourned until police investigations continued.

I have to point out again, that where she was found was the only place that had a fallen tree and/or substantial debris near the edge of the river. If the tree hadn’t been there she would have been found somewhere else. IMO

But the inquest HAS been adjourned until June because the case has been referred to the Home Office Registered Forensic Pathologist by the coroner who performed the post mortem. The police have been directed not to discuss the case whilst investigations continue but as yet cause of death, or suspected cause of death, has not been confirmed (not publicly anyway) or what direction the investigation is taking because forensics is ongoing

 

[Cluella DeVille]

As the body was released to family so soon , does this rule out any criminal involvement ? See link below.

My late Mother died suddenly in her nursing home whilst eating a yoghurt. She had severe osteoporosis and her spine was bent over. The paramedics told my sister they thought it odd and when I discussed with coroner he did order a PM - no suspicious circs found ( lack of care was suspected) and the body was released quickly once that ruled out. ( the home was furious about the pm - first they had had ever - but she had lost a lot of weight and for the sake of the other residents and peace of mind I wanted to be sure and coroner agreed)



Details of postmortem practice and release of body

The body has been released for funeral because the coroner's post mortem has concluded, but the PM was non-forensic. However the coroner has referred the case and his findings to the Home Office Registered Forensic Pathologist and a forensic investigation is now underway. It may be that a confirmed cause of death could not be established without forensic involvement due to the body being missing for 3 weeks? It does not assume a crime has taken place.

My late mother also had a PM because, even though she was under medical care she passed away unexpectedly at home. The same with my late brother, who had been unwell but died at home unexpectedly. My late father did not require a PM due to a prior terminal diagnosis and he was in hospital. With much respect our relatives underwent that procedure very soon after their passing, not because they were suspicious but because they were unexpected. When a coroner is able to establish cause of death due to natural causes with no suspicious implications it's case closed.

Unfortunately a lot will have happened to NB in the course of 3 weeks and it will need to be established when and how death occurred. The body has been released because the ongoing forensic analysis will utilise everything the coroner has recorded and retrieved and we assume the HORFP is satisfied that all is in order that the body itself no longer needs to be retained to conclude the case

 

[Nikynoo]

But the inquest HAS been adjourned until June because the case has been referred to the Home Office Registered Forensic Pathologist by the coroner who performed the post mortem. The police have been directed not to discuss the case whilst investigations continue but as yet cause of death, or suspected cause of death, has not been confirmed (not publicly anyway) or what direction the investigation is taking because forensics is ongoing

Can you provide a link that supports that the Coroner has referred the case to a home office pathologist? Also the Coroner did not perform the post mortem.
It is normal for an inquest to be open and adjourned so that a full report into the death can be considered by the Coroner.

 

[Cluella DeVille]

Can you provide a link that supports that the Coroner has referred the case to a home office pathologist? Also the Coroner did not perform the post mortem.
It is normal for an inquest to be open and adjourned so that a full report into the death can be considered by the Coroner.

I don't understand your comment that the coroner did not perform the PM? And yes it is perfectly normal for an inquest to be opened and adjourned. However in this particular case the coroner has confirmed in his statement that further investigation is required to be presented in a hearing in June.
Another member has already posted a link further back in this thread, I'm not sure it's the same one What happens next with Nicola Bulley case from cause of death to funeral

 

[pineapple23]

The thing is if she had gone in the water around the bench area, the approach to the weir is very shallow and a body would need to surface in order to get over the weir. Once it has surfaced it would stay afloat and with all the daily activity along the river and the ongoing searches she would have been seen. That's why it's been such a mystery

If suicide, she might have left Willow and the phone there where she knew they would be found and entered at a deeper location.

 

[pineapple23]

Another member has already posted a link further back in this thread, I'm not sure it's the same one What happens next with Nicola Bulley case from cause of death to funeral

The same reference to a Home Office Pathologist seems to have been used in all the media and not just this link 'once availability of a Home Office pathologist had been checked'.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Can someone confirm for me as fact if body was found:

In the river-As stated by LE
or
In the bushes / reeds / undergrowth, that overhang the river.

Why do I ask?

It suits LE to say that she was found in the river as it plays along with their theory of her always being in the river.
It plays against LE and makes them look foolish if she was found on drier land or suspended above the river in undergrowth. Particularly edge of river that was searched.

This has not been confirmed yet. <modsnip> Were that to be the location she went from I have even MORE questions but since this information is not released or published in approved media then we can't go down that route. I'm now curious to know if we'll ever be informed.

 

[gerbil]

I don't understand your comment that the coroner did not perform the PM? And yes it is perfectly normal for an inquest to be opened and adjourned. However in this particular case the coroner has confirmed in his statement that further investigation is required to be presented in a hearing in June.
Another member has already posted a link further back in this thread, I'm not sure it's the same one What happens next with Nicola Bulley case from cause of death to funeral

Coroners normally order a PM to be carried out, rather than performing them personally, I think?

 

[pineapple23]

Can someone confirm for me as fact if body was found:

In the river-As stated by LE
or
In the bushes / reeds / undergrowth, that overhang the river.

Why do I ask?

It suits LE to say that she was found in the river as it plays along with their theory of her always being in the river.
It plays against LE and makes them look foolish if she was found on drier land or suspended above the river in undergrowth. Particularly edge of river that was searched.

There is an earlier post stating that a diver had to retrieve her from the water and it would have been difficult to 'deposit' a body into that location from the bank. So she was in the river but tangled up in the reeds. Doesn't have to be a strictly either or imo.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I wonder why PF mentioned Whisky bottles in particular (as opposed to other types of alcohol)?

Maybe he was just being very literal and sticking to the poison of choice that some of his past cases involved. He strikes me as a very literal person in the same was as someone on the autism spectrum would be and I relate to the way he talks as being very logical, frank, and open. So I would suggest he was being literal to past cases. As he had no idea NB was allegedly drinking (not confirmed) then he would have had no cause to look for whiskey bottles.

 

[Cluella DeVille]

If suicide, she might have left Willow and the phone there where she knew they would be found and entered at a deeper location.

Yes that may well be the case, and that would explain perfectly why she wasn't found at any point upstream above the weir. It doesn't of course explain why she wasn't found in the tidal section beyond the weir to the point at which she was found.
But fortunately she has been recovered, the post mortem and forensic conclusions will hopefully be able to determine cause of death and is consistent with being in the river for just over 3 weeks

 

[pineapple23]

So I would suggest he was being literal to past cases. As he had no idea NB was allegedly drinking (not confirmed) then he would have had no cause to look for whiskey bottles.

Except, I suppose, the alcohol/pills route isn't necessarily limited to drinkers. JMO

 

[Cluella DeVille]

The same reference to a Home Office Pathologist seems to have been used in all the media and not just this link 'once availability of a Home Office pathologist had been checked'.

Because at the time of the coroner's PM report being submitted, a date for commencement of a forensic pathology investigation had not been established...hence 4 months set to June a full inquest hearing to establish a decent period of time for all investigations (including those of the police) to have been carried out

 

[pineapple23]

But fortunately she has been recovered, the post mortem and forensic conclusions will hopefully be able to determine cause of death and is consistent with being in the river for just over 3 weeks

And hopefully water/tidal experts will also have contributed their opinion.

 

[Penny68]

If a PM is requested by a hospital doctor, or a coroner, it is the pathologist that does the PM, then the results of that are reported to the coroner.

When a family member passed away in their own home a PM was requested. After the investigations were done the results were passed to the coroner who then phoned the next of kin of the family member.

 

[Cluella DeVille]

Coroners normally order a PM to be carried out, rather than performing them personally, I think?

The person carrying out the PM in this case is unknown, the specific coroner has been named and is presenting the evidence, so using the term 'coroner' in this context. Apologies for any confusion