Found Deceased UK - Nicola Bulley Last Seen Walking Dog Near River - St Michaels on Wyre (Lancashire), Jan 2023 #19

[bos]

That's a very good point. My concern on that would be why did it then stop at 9.30. If it can record steps when she was in the water producing motion movements when deceased, then surely this would continue after 9.30.The other aspect that concerns me re the Fitbit data is why did they only ask and report the highest recorded heartbeat (9.22),surely the most important time is the last recorded heartbeat ignoring the random irregular ones explained away. If they could come out and state the last recorded beats were at 9.22 then I'd very happily accept their explanation

With all due respect, it may have come up at the inquest & just not have been reported. Even a properly trained journalist who can use short hand is going to report what they believe to be the salient points.

Additionally, the coroner is likely to have the raw data/evidence in document form; as an experienced pathologist himself, he will have known what was relevant to ask to aid public/family understanding. MOO

 

[Teignmouth 22]

R.I.P. Nicola

My condolences to her loved ones and I hope they can move on now, undisturbed, while adjusting to life without her.

 

[WAWAW]

With all due respect, it may have come up at the inquest & just not have been reported. Even a properly trained journalist who can use short hand is going to report what they believe to be the salient points.

Additionally, the coroner is likely to have the raw data/evidence in document form; as an experienced pathologist himself, he will have known what was relevant to ask to aid public/family understanding. MOO

Yeah I accept that, but if they'd publish it then it will help stop the flow of questions that will come from this.
It will be interesting to see if the whole unedited version is put online, when my sister committed suicide the full report was online (it was significantly different to what we were expecting but that's another story) but I've a feeling this won't happen here

 

[Seattle1]

That's a very good point. My concern on that would be why did it then stop at 9.30. If it can record steps when she was in the water producing motion movements when deceased, then surely this would continue after 9.30.The other aspect that concerns me re the Fitbit data is why did they only ask and report the highest recorded heartbeat (9.22),surely the most important time is the last recorded heartbeat ignoring the random irregular ones explained away. If they could come out and state the last recorded beats were at 9.22 then I'd very happily accept their explanation

This is incorrect in how the Fitbit functions. See Dr Adeley's summary below of how steps are recorded in 15-minute segments. Also, although the final record by NB's Fitbit was not cited during the inquest, I think the cold water could be a factor in shutting down the final read and/or accuracy. Depending on Model, much info about Fitbit not recording in cold weather in Fitbit community FAQ. JMO

14:33JAMIE LOPEZ

Coroner's summary - timeline​

Dr Adeley is now summing up the evidence which has been heard over the last two days. This includes:

• Nicola was last seen alive by fellow dog-walker Claire Chesholm at 9.10am
• At 9.18am she adjusted the volume of her conference call
• PC Keith Greenhalgh examined Nikki’s Fitbit device- it recorded steps in 15 minute segments. On January 27 she walked 4,548 steps between 8am and 9.30am. Between 9.15am and 9.30am she walked 273 steps. No further steps after 9.30am
• At 9.22am the FitBit recorded a substantially increased heart rate
• Penny Fletcher arrived at the bench at 9.33am. Nicola was nowhere to be seen but Willow was found and the dog’s harness was found between the bench and the river
• Nicola was last seen alive at 9.10am, interacted with her phone at 9.18am and Mrs Fletcher found Willow at 9.33am. This provides a maximum window of time of 15 minutes when Nicola went into the river

 

[WAWAW]

This is incorrect in how the Fitbit functions. See Dr Adeley's summary below of how steps are recorded in 15-minute segments. Also, although the final record by NB's Fitbit was not cited during the inquest, I think the cold water could be a factor in shutting down the final read and/or accuracy. Depending on Model, much info about Fitbit not recording in cold weather in Fitbit community FAQ. JMO

That's actually a very interesting post that gives some accurate data. I've checked mine and it's correct to say it breaks into 15 minute segments with the start of the 15 minute period having the data for the following 15 minutes. What isn't clear from the evidence is whether the last recorded time for steps is 9.15 or 9.30 as that would determine which time slot they'd fall into.
However, what the expert doesn't say is the beats per minute data reports on a minute by minute basis, now call me cynical but why would someone trying to establish time of death not ask for this information at an inquest.
The other interesting aspect of the experts findings is the number of steps taken in this slot. I've converted this amount into average yards and this comes out at 230ish.
Now if she entered the water at 9.22 then this gives her 7 minutes to walk 230 yards. This is possible but all evidence (including the phone) points to her being at the bench prior to entering the water, which begs the question where have the 230 yards walking come from, and I'd argue it points more towards her continuing to walk up to nearer the 9.30 time.
One simple solution to this to stop the speculation and that is get the police to publish the Fitbit data on heart beat recording, if this stops around 9.22 I'll be very content that the correct conclusion has been reached. If they don't people will always doubt it, it's already happening on other forums with people perplexed at the decision reached

 

[San111]

https://videos.dailymail.co.uk/vide...048488458/640x360_MP4_2642078038048488458.mp4

Interesting video on the Daily Mail website. A police officer floating downstream (sometimes walking) in the river Wyre, from the 'point of entry' to beyond the weir. Remarkable how swift and easily he is floating across the weir, even though the water level is about 50 cm lower than it was in February.

That's interesting. Certainly seems very plausible if not likely that a body would go over the weir. According to that video the water was flowing a little faster on the day yet PF said at the time 'The current was not heavy enough to take her over the weir. A lot of people agree on that'

 

[CoverMeCagney]

That's actually a very interesting post that gives some accurate data. I've checked mine and it's correct to say it breaks into 15 minute segments with the start of the 15 minute period having the data for the following 15 minutes. What isn't clear from the evidence is whether the last recorded time for steps is 9.15 or 9.30 as that would determine which time slot they'd fall into.
However, what the expert doesn't say is the beats per minute data reports on a minute by minute basis, now call me cynical but why would someone trying to establish time of death not ask for this information at an inquest.
The other interesting aspect of the experts findings is the number of steps taken in this slot. I've converted this amount into average yards and this comes out at 230ish.
Now if she entered the water at 9.22 then this gives her 7 minutes to walk 230 yards. This is possible but all evidence (including the phone) points to her being at the bench prior to entering the water, which begs the question where have the 230 yards walking come from, and I'd argue it points more towards her continuing to walk up to nearer the 9.30 time.
One simple solution to this to stop the speculation and that is get the police to publish the Fitbit data on heart beat recording, if this stops around 9.22 I'll be very content that the correct conclusion has been reached. If they don't people will always doubt it, it's already happening on other forums with people perplexed at the decision reached

Surely that’s why they’ve given 9:22 as the most likely time she fell in. I disagree that we (as in not family or police) need to know the exact minute her heart stopped, or how long she lived before dying. I do get what you’re saying, but I don’t think it’s relevant (to us) and it’s not something that’s usually made public. I think we have to trust that the police and experts have done their homework and got the time as accurate as they can with all the loads more evidence than we have. We are not the investigators.

 

[Seattle1]

That's actually a very interesting post that gives some accurate data. I've checked mine and it's correct to say it breaks into 15 minute segments with the start of the 15 minute period having the data for the following 15 minutes. What isn't clear from the evidence is whether the last recorded time for steps is 9.15 or 9.30 as that would determine which time slot they'd fall into.
However, what the expert doesn't say is the beats per minute data reports on a minute by minute basis, now call me cynical but why would someone trying to establish time of death not ask for this information at an inquest.
The other interesting aspect of the experts findings is the number of steps taken in this slot. I've converted this amount into average yards and this comes out at 230ish.
Now if she entered the water at 9.22 then this gives her 7 minutes to walk 230 yards. This is possible but all evidence (including the phone) points to her being at the bench prior to entering the water, which begs the question where have the 230 yards walking come from, and I'd argue it points more towards her continuing to walk up to nearer the 9.30 time.
One simple solution to this to stop the speculation and that is get the police to publish the Fitbit data on heart beat recording, if this stops around 9.22 I'll be very content that the correct conclusion has been reached. If they don't people will always doubt it, it's already happening on other forums with people perplexed at the decision reached

We've had similar case questions here in the States and the simple answer is Legal Liability and Disclaimer by FitBit where they repeatedly provide
Fitbit’s products and services are not intended to be equivalent to medical devices or scientific measurement devices. Accordingly, the Coroner would never promote and/or rely on FitBit for results contrary to the products stated terms and services.

Fitbit Important Safety and Product Information

 

[MrsWatson]

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/27/uk/nicola-bulley-accidental-death-intl-gbr/index.html

 

[ayrshireguy]

A sad, tragic accident. So everything that happened in the days and weeks before had no bearing on her death.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

It’s mad really, when you think about it. People die accidentally all the time, people drown. “Woman falls in river during dog walk” would not typically be headlining all the papers and on the News At 10 as it is right now.

Many, many lessons to be learned by police and the media, it’s incredible how quickly Nicola’s story went viral and how much people clamoured for information, craving all the juicy details. None of it changed the outcome, if anything it’s made everything so much worse for her loved ones. It’s really making me think about whether all the cases I follow here are fair game. Perhaps not.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

It’s mad really, when you think about it. People die accidentally all the time, people drown. “Woman falls in river during dog walk” would not typically be headlining all the papers and on the News At 10 as it is right now.

Many, many lessons to be learned by police and the media, it’s incredible how quickly Nicola’s story went viral and how much people clamoured for information, craving all the juicy details. None of it changed the outcome, if anything it’s made everything so much worse for her loved ones. It’s really making me think about whether all the cases I follow here are fair game. Perhaps not.

Maybe it was because of the one unusual element - NB's media trained and PR trained friend who quickly mobilised journalists, reporters, and did national TV interviews. I'm sure her heart was in the right place but perhaps, in hindsight, it was completely unnecessary action and blew up what has transpired to be a very sad and very localised matter into a national news event and made a drama mystery of it to boot.

In 'normal' circumstances where a missing person doesn't have such a keen and well connected friend, this would not have happened. Had it not happened, the family and NB herself may have been afforded a whole lot more dignity. JMO MOO

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Yeah I think that’s about right @Observe

I recall reading ages ago that police often prefer to keep misper cases very localised at first, otherwise they get hundreds of calls about sightings and theories from people hundreds of miles away. It’s why we sometimes don’t hear about cases until a few days have passed, though it’ll have been on regional news and social media on a more ‘need to know’ basis. In Nicola’s case there was, in hindsight, no need for this story to leave Lancashire.

It’s a really difficult thing to balance, I suppose. Corrie McKeague as another example - his mum set up a Fb page for publicity and tips to help find him, but it ended up with 10,000+ members spamming the page with well wishes and blue hearts every day. Totally out of control. I think we’ll see more and more of this. What to do, what to do…

 

[UK Girl]

Maybe it was because of the one unusual element - NB's media trained and PR trained friend who quickly mobilised journalists, reporters, and did national TV interviews. I'm sure her heart was in the right place but perhaps, in hindsight, it was completely unnecessary action and blew up what has transpired to be a very sad and very localised matter into a national news event and made a drama mystery of it to boot.

In 'normal' circumstances where a missing person doesn't have such a keen and well connected friend, this would not have happened. Had it not happened, the family and NB herself may have been afforded a whole lot more dignity. JMO MOO

where as it even been proven that it was Emma who got all the journalists and everyone else there? I dont personally blame her for anything and I certainly dont blame her for any lack of dignity. I think she has been through a hard time personally and has lost a friend as well. She also wasnt the only one who did national tv interviews. I can think of several others that did but she was one of them who helped to arrange the searches so of course was there daily.

The amount of abuse the family and friends have had for simply trying to find someone they loved is beyond awful.

 

[sriraaacha]

I have no problem with whatever verdict a highly experienced coroner decides to deliver. There’s just one thing puzzling me:
When contacted with the news that Nicola had disappeared, her partner reportedly responded with the words “She’s struggling“. Yet in his testimony he emphasised how positive she was feeling about the future. Perhaps both can be true but it does seem strange.

Another thing I noticed was that originally Paul had said that morning was different because everything was organised and usually they were running around at the last minute trying to get everything ready, whereas over these past few days he was asked if that morning was the same as usual and he said yes.

 

[guiser]

What isn't clear from the evidence is whether the last recorded time for steps is 9.15 or 9.30 as that would determine which time slot they'd fall into.

It IS reported

282(from memory) steps between 9.15 and 9.30
No more steps after 9.30

 

[guiser]

Yeah I accept that, but if they'd publish it then it will help stop the flow of questions that will come from this.
It will be interesting to see if the whole unedited version is put online, when my sister committed suicide the full report was online (it was significantly different to what we were expecting but that's another story) but I've a feeling this won't happen here

"Coroners' records are closed for 75 years, and permission to see records less than 75 years old has to be obtained from the relevant coroner's office. It is only given in exceptional circumstances, email archiveslocalstudies@manchester.gov.uk for details."

 

[UK Girl]

It IS reported

282(from memory) steps between 9.15 and 9.30
No more steps after 9.30

and because someone seems confused they arent saying theres any steps from 9.22 to 9.30 either so the idea she was walking for those eight minutes is wrong.

 

[Snoopster]

That's actually a very interesting post that gives some accurate data. I've checked mine and it's correct to say it breaks into 15 minute segments with the start of the 15 minute period having the data for the following 15 minutes. What isn't clear from the evidence is whether the last recorded time for steps is 9.15 or 9.30 as that would determine which time slot they'd fall into.
However, what the expert doesn't say is the beats per minute data reports on a minute by minute basis, now call me cynical but why would someone trying to establish time of death not ask for this information at an inquest.
The other interesting aspect of the experts findings is the number of steps taken in this slot. I've converted this amount into average yards and this comes out at 230ish.
Now if she entered the water at 9.22 then this gives her 7 minutes to walk 230 yards. This is possible but all evidence (including the phone) points to her being at the bench prior to entering the water, which begs the question where have the 230 yards walking come from, and I'd argue it points more towards her continuing to walk up to nearer the 9.30 time.
One simple solution to this to stop the speculation and that is get the police to publish the Fitbit data on heart beat recording, if this stops around 9.22 I'll be very content that the correct conclusion has been reached. If they don't people will always doubt it, it's already happening on other forums with people perplexed at the decision reached

bbm for focus.

The police don't need to publish anything for us. There was an inquest held and a finding was made. The family has asked the public to move on so they can move on. They accept the inquest's findings.

 

[Twittens]

It IS reported

282(from memory) steps between 9.15 and 9.30
No more steps after 9.30

It might be useful to know how that compares with the 15 minutes before. She walked 4548 steps between 8am and 9.30 according to the link, making a mean of around 750 per 15-minute time slot. Those paces wouldn't be evenly spaced out over the whole 90 minutes though - there was stoppage time at the school gate for starters - and a brisk walker would normally reckon to walk 1500-2000 in 15 mins, so 282 is significantly fewer steps than you'd expect from a dog walker and points to her progress having stopped in the first few minutes of the 9.15-9.30 span IMO. But then again if she hardly walked any distance between 9 and 9.15 either, because of her meeting, for instance, that might change my estimate. If she was just pacing or walking round in circles once her meeting started while she concentrated on what was being said, 282 steps could take quite a while.

Nicola Bulley's Fitbit gave heart rate output for eight days after she drowned

Just my thoughts.