UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #17

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
Such a strange bizarre bunch of stuff to write imo; what I also don’t get is why she writes her name as many times as she does. Was she practicing or looking at her signature, were the police saying her handwriting or initials are on records etc, discussing with barrister on a phone call?
It’s also weird where she’s just writing “hello” on these notes too.
Moo
Such a strange bizarre bunch of stuff to write imo; what I also don’t get is why she writes her name as many times as she does. Was she practicing or looking at her signature, were the police saying her handwriting or initials are on records etc, discussing with barrister on a phone call?
It’s also weird where she’s just writing “hello” on these notes too.
Moo
I’m starting to think the format of the pages might indicate some form of personal coping mechanism for stressful situations. The stress and suffering is self evident in the writing and are the words under question some form of comfort seeking? I could see how writing down is cathartic as well, so she writes down what makes her feel bad and then puts a word with an association next to it or near it as a kind of reaffirmation of the thing she takes comfort in. In essence trying to outdo the discomfort with mental summoning of an image or thing that brings her comfort. Contrasting and perhaps competing mental imagery.

I could back this up by referring to her numerous quotes of cathartic orientated processes In the year.
 
100% agree.

How many times we read in the Press:

"Oh, he was such a nice man, always said Hello"

Of course, there are many, many variations to this response.

Ad nauseam.

JMO
It’s actually scary the amount of people who have this kind of view based on a “look” or a certain fit of a profile. I know we could all be guilty of doing it (if we are really honest with ourselves); but even friendships I have met some of the most horrendous people who are gorgeous, skilled, awesome at their job, everyone loves them and yet you find out that sometimes there is something disturbing about them, like the wolf in sheep’s clothing you mention.

These types of people are very manipulative, unhappy or cruel/evil beings and when you say something like her colleagues did; eg That’s odd, I’m concerned about you etc, they immediately get p*ssed and angry or frustrated. It makes you feel like you second guessing yourself, like Dr J, question if you’re imagining it or being stupid.

These people are very devious and some of the most dangerous to walk the earth because if guilty of these types of crimes, it can be very difficult to prove/go undetected for years. Because they are obviously so wonderful and attractive etc how could they possibly do anything- because they don’t “fit” that ideology of “the type” to commit a crime.

IMO
 
I’m starting to think the format of the pages might indicate some form of personal coping mechanism for stressful situations. The stress and suffering is self evident in the writing and are the words under question some form of comfort seeking? I could see how writing down is cathartic as well, so she writes down what makes her feel bad and then puts a word with an association next to it or near it as a kind of reaffirmation of the thing she takes comfort in. In essence trying to outdo the discomfort with mental summoning of an image or thing that brings her comfort. Contrasting and perhaps competing mental imagery.

I could back this up by referring to her numerous quotes of cathartic orientated processes In the year.
Possibly. I’m not sure how writing “hello” would make her feel bad or give her comfort though? If she’s on the phone when writing this stuff, (Karen Rees for example, or the OH lady, someone went away and didn’t tell her), that would make sense (in some way).

I’m not sure how re-writing her own name like she does on the note would make her feel bad (or comfort) either though. Perhaps she had whiskey in front of her and was just sprawling stuff across the page whilst under the influence? It really doesn’t make any sense. The names (whiskey, tiny boy, smudge, tigger, Bergerac) appear to be quite relevant to something/someone though (whether making her feel bad or giving her comfort). They appear to be either people/babies or pets. They appear almost as frequent as she mentions Karen and Cathryn (and Minna)

JMO
 
@Sweeper2000 thank you so much for the balance and critical thinking you consistently bring to these threads. It’s a breath of fresh air and a welcome reminder that the burden is on the prosecution to prove guilt, not on the defence to prove innocence. Right now - even according to the law, she is innocent until guilt has been proven.
<modsnip: sub judice>

“IMO”.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Possibly. I’m not sure how writing “hello” would make her feel bad or give her comfort though? If she’s on the phone when writing this stuff, (Karen Rees for example, or the OH lady, someone went away and didn’t tell her), that would make sense (in some way).

I’m not sure how re-writing her own name like she does on the note would make her feel bad (or comfort) either though. Perhaps she had whiskey in front of her and was just sprawling stuff across the page whilst under the influence? It really doesn’t make any sense. The names (whiskey, tiny boy, smudge, tigger, Bergerac) appear to be quite relevant to something/someone though (whether making her feel bad or giving her comfort). They appear to be either people/babies or pets. They appear almost as frequent as she mentions Karen and Cathryn (and Minna)

JMO
Why would pets though??
Was there any mention about cats or other pets at her home?
Did she text about them?

I doubt she meant pets - although the nicknames might sound like pets' names.

JMO
 
June 10th 2015
"She told a colleague later that she had been watching An Hour To Save Your Life, a TV documentary following life on a neonatal unit.

The woman said she did not watch such programmes, explaining: 'get enough in work'.

But Letby explained her fascination: 'I just find it interesting, to see how our work is portrayed to the public.'"

I remember this being discussed months ago but the episode she refers to (airing 9th June 2015) refers to three ICU babies and one in particular the doctor talks about how babies can take in air and in particular can cause the bowels/stomach to expand and put pressure on the chest and over time it will suffocate the baby.

June 12th
Baby C allegedly dies from air via NGT, a 'new' method, one that she largely adopts going forwards, possibly because she doesn't have to be directly there at the point of collapse.

Just random thoughts, I've been ill so too much time on my hands this past week haha
 
Why would pets though??
Was there any mention about cats or other pets at her home?
Did she text about them?

I doubt she meant pets - although the nicknames might sound like pets' names.

JMO
Cats was reported in the press (2 of them) at her home when she was arrested.
Although unless they are in that jumble of writing in her notes with these names; we wouldn’t really know for sure if she’s actually talking about pets or if they are a persons knickname. Tbh it could be either.

I’ve just been looking at pet names for whiskey, in terms of its meaning. Whilst it can be unusual (but not unheard of) for an animal, it’s actually associated with sophistication and gentleman, class, companionship, friendship and courage. Again, it could be absolute tosh and irrelevant to that note completely, OR it could be a pet nickname for someone close to her.

Bergerac I wonder if that’s to do with the lady whose last name is De Berger, or discussion of France, it’s hard to figure out the association really.

However; someone pointed out earlier about the vodka and Prosecco/moving in with no glitter ball etc- I must say she does strike me as someone who would like a Prosecco tbh. Not presuming she wouldn’t enjoy whiskey or Bergerac either BUT, I wonder if she’s sat and mulled over these drinks with dr choc at some point. Stressful nights, blubbering in the car, talking until the small hours, glass of whiskey. Who knows.
JMO
 
Cats was reported in the press (2 of them) at her home when she was arrested.
Although unless they are in that jumble of writing in her notes with these names; we wouldn’t really know for sure if she’s actually talking about pets or if they are a persons knickname. Tbh it could be either.

I’ve just been looking at pet names for whiskey, in terms of its meaning. Whilst it can be unusual (but not unheard of) for an animal, it’s actually associated with sophistication and gentleman, class, companionship, friendship and courage. Again, it could be absolute tosh and irrelevant to that note completely, OR it could be a pet nickname for someone close to her.

Bergerac I wonder if that’s to do with the lady whose last name is De Berger, or discussion of France, it’s hard to figure out the association really.

However; someone pointed out earlier about the vodka and Prosecco/moving in with no glitter ball etc- I must say she does strike me as someone who would like a Prosecco tbh. Not presuming she wouldn’t enjoy whiskey or Bergerac either BUT, I wonder if she’s sat and mulled over these drinks with dr choc at some point. Stressful nights, blubbering in the car, talking until the small hours, glass of whiskey. Who knows.
JMO
Thanks!
I never knew about cats at her home.
I hope the animals were taken by her parents!
 
I am interested in the parts LL has blocked out herself with pen. Suggests to me she really didn't want anyone to read what was written underneath. Am I right in thinking the bits that are blocked out by the media are names of both alleged victims and professionals?
 
Possibly. I’m not sure how writing “hello” would make her feel bad or give her comfort though? If she’s on the phone when writing this stuff, (Karen Rees for example, or the OH lady, someone went away and didn’t tell her), that would make sense (in some way).

I’m not sure how re-writing her own name like she does on the note would make her feel bad (or comfort) either though. Perhaps she had whiskey in front of her and was just sprawling stuff across the page whilst under the influence? It really doesn’t make any sense. The names (whiskey, tiny boy, smudge, tigger, Bergerac) appear to be quite relevant to something/someone though (whether making her feel bad or giving her comfort). They appear to be either people/babies or pets. They appear almost as frequent as she mentions Karen and Cathryn (and Minna)

JMO
Can you quote an article or post a pic of the note with that hello on pls.

I can see how writing ones own name would be a reaffirmation of oneself and ones own qualities to be sure. In other words “I am …“ it might be a way to centre oneself in times of disassociation or great stress. Kind of saying ones own name brings the ego back and reaffirms ones place in the world rather than floating away and around which is normal for a disassociated state of mind. A slap back to reality in other words. I think something that indicates that is the way she writes her name, “Lucy letby” then twirly whirls almost like she’s floating away. It’s a guess, but it might work.

im going to suggest something more or less without anything backing it up, I think she may find some form of comfort in the colour pink or red. In one of the notes all the writing with a negative association is in black but the words like tigger and smudge are all in red or pink. I would definitely agree those names and words seem to mean something. Just looking at her room there is more pink there than anything else.
 
@Sweeper2000 thank you so much for the balance and critical thinking you consistently bring to these threads. It’s a breath of fresh air and a welcome reminder that the burden is on the prosecution to prove guilt, not on the defence to prove innocence. Right now - even according to the law, she is innocent until guilt has been proven.

<modsnip>

“IMO”.
Im absolutely chuffed to feel like I’m contributing something useful. I totally agree by the way. Thankyou.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Can you quote an article or post a pic of the note with that hello on pls.

I can see how writing ones own name would be a reaffirmation of oneself and ones own qualities to be sure. In other words “I am …“ it might be a way to centre oneself in times of disassociation or great stress. Kind of saying ones own name brings the ego back and reaffirms ones place in the world rather than floating away and around which is normal for a disassociated state of mind. A slap back to reality in other words. I think something that indicates that is the way she writes her name, “Lucy letby” then twirly whirls almost like she’s floating away. It’s a guess, but it might work.

im going to suggest something more or less without anything backing it up, I think she may find some form of comfort in the colour pink or red. In one of the notes all the writing with a negative association is in black but the words like tigger and smudge are all in red or pink. I would definitely agree those names and words seem to mean something. Just looking at her room there is more pink there than anything else.
Can you quote an article or post a pic of the note with that hello on pls.

I can see how writing ones own name would be a reaffirmation of oneself and ones own qualities to be sure. In other words “I am …“ it might be a way to centre oneself in times of disassociation or great stress. Kind of saying ones own name brings the ego back and reaffirms ones place in the world rather than floating away and around which is normal for a disassociated state of mind. A slap back to reality in other words. I think something that indicates that is the way she writes her name, “Lucy letby” then twirly whirls almost like she’s floating away. It’s a guess, but it might work.

im going to suggest something more or less without anything backing it up, I think she may find some form of comfort in the colour pink or red. In one of the notes all the writing with a negative association is in black but the words like tigger and smudge are all in red or pink. I would definitely agree those names and words seem to mean something. Just looking at her room there is more pink there than anything else.
It’s on the right hand side of this one in black ink, just below the name Karen Rees. I’ve seen it a few times but not sure which ones.

On one hand you could be right re the colour pink/red, she strikes me as quite feminine from her room, pink jacket, sparkles thing on the wall, Prosecco photo frame etc or just as equally, she might not be. It’s worth noting though, red is also a colour of anger (and passion/love).

Moo
 

Attachments

  • 7D11263E-440A-40D3-AD73-27E13192C5E3.jpeg
    7D11263E-440A-40D3-AD73-27E13192C5E3.jpeg
    117.9 KB · Views: 27
  • 88B86DB8-8E3D-4247-931F-55D8EB82F66A.jpeg
    88B86DB8-8E3D-4247-931F-55D8EB82F66A.jpeg
    126.7 KB · Views: 23
I wonder - as I have never scribbled my thoughts on pieces of paper -

Why would people keep them for years?

To return to them and read them from time to time?

I would think that once the thoughts were put on paper and the person felt freed of them - the notes were destroyed.

After all, they served their purpose, no?

I really don't know what to think about it.
 
It’s on the right hand side of this one in black ink, just below the name Karen Rees. I’ve seen it a few times but not sure which ones.

On one hand you could be right re the colour pink/red, she strikes me as quite feminine from her room, pink jacket, sparkles thing on the wall, Prosecco photo frame etc or just as equally, she might not be. It’s worth noting though, red is also a colour of anger (and passion/love).

Moo
Quoting my own post again for focus on the discussion; I’ve just realised this is actually one note/the same note where she’s wrote on the remainder on the reverse side.

So on one side you see on the right side Jst below where it says “Karen Rees” she writes “hello” and if you look just to the left around that same line it says “hello” again in black ink. On the reverse of if on the right side again where there are about 3 redacted names; squished in the side says “hello” in black ink.
 
Can you quote an article or post a pic of the note with that hello on pls.

I can see how writing ones own name would be a reaffirmation of oneself and ones own qualities to be sure. In other words “I am …“ it might be a way to centre oneself in times of disassociation or great stress. Kind of saying ones own name brings the ego back and reaffirms ones place in the world rather than floating away and around which is normal for a disassociated state of mind. A slap back to reality in other words. I think something that indicates that is the way she writes her name, “Lucy letby” then twirly whirls almost like she’s floating away. It’s a guess, but it might work.

im going to suggest something more or less without anything backing it up, I think she may find some form of comfort in the colour pink or red. In one of the notes all the writing with a negative association is in black but the words like tigger and smudge are all in red or pink. I would definitely agree those names and words seem to mean something. Just looking at her room there is more pink there than anything else.
Just looking at this again, she actually doesn’t write tigger and smudge all in red/pink though. Some of them are in black, it’s quite inconsistent, sometimes red, sometimes black.
Regardless, an all round very odd collection of writing tbh, although I don’t disagree this definitely must mean something to her even if there is not really a pattern to her chosen pen colour imo.
 
I wonder - as I have never scribbled my thoughts on pieces of paper -

Why would people keep them for years?

To return to them and read them from time to time?

I would think that once the thoughts were put on paper and the person felt freed of them - the notes were destroyed.

After all, they served their purpose, no?

I really don't know what to think about it.
Each to their own I guess. I once had a school friend who kept every single diary she’d had for about 3 years. She liked to look back and reflect, therapeutic or some sort?

Personally, not for me. I actually stumbled across my old diary during a house move some years ago now; i cringed reading that beast.
 
Just looking at this again, she actually doesn’t write tigger and smudge all in red/pink though. Some of them are in black, it’s quite inconsistent, sometimes red, sometimes black.
Regardless, an all round very odd collection of writing tbh, although I don’t disagree this definitely must mean something to her even if there is not really a pattern to her chosen pen colour imo.
Yeh i think the same. It’s such a mess and difficult to make heads nor tails of. I’m not sure I want to head into that hole without some anchor to earth or maps and a compass. I am full on baffled. If I get lost in there I’m going to be so angry if no one comes and gets me.

i will make some observations though. I’m confident disassociation was a element in the making of this. Fitting for a high stress situation. I’m confident that the differences in colour are representing a contrast in the experience of the writer and I think the arrows may point to it as well, you see the arrows pointing up and down and have a line through the middle the line may represent a partition between positive and negative. It also seems the red and black ink are written at different times the same as the passages in the confession note. So she must have written the black ink first then the red. Maybe it’s presentation as messy might be explained by that. I’m sure it’s a pink pen as well, the red is just layered pink. I think the “hello” is probably indicative of associated positivity as well and may well be attached to the names that are close to it.

jeez It’s so messy. I’ve never seen anything like it at all. Very very difficult to make sense of. That’s my observations so far maybe with more thought there may be some other things to elucidate.
 
I’m not sure I could agree with all this. On one hand you make some good points, but I recall a case many years ago now in the uk where a woman in her 40s was charged with sexually abusing children in the nursery she worked at.
When the news broke, people were understandingly horrified, they didn’t believe it, said how truly wonderful she was at her job, kind, didn’t fit the “typical” look etc. The way they described her was so similar to what you mention her about LL, not the ‘typical’ type highly regarded by her colleagues and parents.
It turned out that she was in fact guilty and the utter shock and disbelief from her family, co-workers and parents of that was so awful. As you’d imagine.

That someone so sweet, seemingly flawless at the job etc, just like the evidence we have heard with this case; was actually indeed guilty of this awful crime. It’s thankfully a rareity, but it does happen even with the most “wonderful” adored of colleagues or care provider.

To think it doesn’t happen because of a pretty face, qualification or whatever would be very naive.

JMO
I think I recall that case but not in much detail. If it's the same one there is a bit of a difference to LL as that woman was in cahoots with some guy who was kind of directing her. She was taking pics of the kids at his behest for the purposes of selling them, if I recall correctly. If guilty LL isn't in cahoots with anyone else......that we know of, anyway!

The woman in the nursery case was using a phone to take the pictures. I recall around the time a friend of mine who's family owned a kids nursery was saying that the fallout from that created huge problems for them; they used to organise trips and suchlike for the older kids and gave all the staff mobiles for safety and security reasons in case they needed to phone in an emergency or something or if any of the kids needed parents calling. Her words "....try to find a *advertiser censored**ing mobile today with a camera!....".
 
Yeh i think the same. It’s such a mess and difficult to make heads nor tails of. I’m not sure I want to head into that hole without some anchor to earth or maps and a compass. I am full on baffled. If I get lost in there I’m going to be so angry if no one comes and gets me.

i will make some observations though. I’m confident disassociation was a element in the making of this. Fitting for a high stress situation. I’m confident that the differences in colour are representing a contrast in the experience of the writer and I think the arrows may point to it as well, you see the arrows pointing up and down and have a line through the middle the line may represent a partition between positive and negative. It also seems the red and black ink are written at different times the same as the passages in the confession note. So she must have written the black ink first then the red. Maybe it’s presentation as messy might be explained by that. I’m sure it’s a pink pen as well, the red is just layered pink. I think the “hello” is probably indicative of associated positivity as well and may well be attached to the names that are close to it.

jeez It’s so messy. I’ve never seen anything like it at all. Very very difficult to make sense of. That’s my observations so far maybe with more thought there may be some other things to elucidate.
I don’t know if I’d refer to it as disassociation though tbh.
Given she makes reference to so many names- even ones that make little sense to us as observers (for now at least) it looks as thought she was still very much wanting association with the world/people she had. I feel that much is clear by the repetition of “help me” followed by a name throughout the writing.
It does look like she is quite desperate (albeit on a downward spiral) frantically trying to hold onto a life and people she knew, wanting their help. Disassociation of it for me would be the complete opposite. Perhaps a blunt choice of defamatory words or bitter perhaps. We don’t really see that (much) other than that one word “b***ds* she seems very much still trying to associate with it and trying to hold onto that life.

Re the pink pen, Im not sure I could agree here. I’ve had some downright awful pens before where the “red” is a muted ridiculous baby pink instead. Red pens that start to loose their ink also go that weird lighter shade of red. I also don’t see how she would have wrote the black ink first when you can clearly see the red ink underneath she has those odd sentences/song? To me it looks as though she wrote whatever the lyrics or ramblings are in red first, and she’s then used that same piece of paper/note and wrote over the top of it in black pen.
Depending which side of the note you are looking at I suppose!

I do agree though, I have never seen anything quite like this either, I’m sure there may be more to come in due course.

All JMO
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
77
Guests online
3,102
Total visitors
3,179

Forum statistics

Threads
602,661
Messages
18,144,594
Members
231,476
Latest member
ceciliaesquivel2000@yahoo
Back
Top