GUILTY UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #32

[Becky53]

Nah - total player who's been chasing nurses for years. Usually successfully. You can spot the type a mile off.

Cue


Ding dong

 

[Sundial]

I'm not sure if you can infantilise yourself but you make a good point and maybe its possible.

There was also the mention of her carrying 2 blankets/ a purple and pink one (and a soft squishy fiddly thing in her hand?) into the hearing too. The hand item I could maybe understand…and I know someone mentioned this yesterday too and I agree, the blankets? Is a little strange for a 30 something year old to be carrying around with her. I was thinking back to when the news broke yesterday of the mum who held a toy rabbit to her face and wept as the verdict was given; I imagine some of these parents there with little soft toys and memories sitting throughout the hearing with these little mementos of loss..but for the accused to be wondering in/out of her hearing carrying blankets (similar to the parents with soft toys), IMO is really very odd.

EBM

 

[mrC]

i would think it a miscarriage of justice if it wasnt for the letters they look pretty damming

 

[Eloise]

There’s a few people in here and other forums where I follow the case who have been going to the trial and waiting for the verdicts.

Does anyone know if they will have knew about the partial verdicts or were they closed hearings?
I’m quite shocked none of it was leaked tbh. The first guilty murders came back on the 8th august.. more on the 11th. I can understand the media. But I know what facebook/Reddit/tattle can be like. I’m impressed no one leaked a thing!

They were not closed. On another forum there were a couple of posters who had been in court and heard those partial verdicts. They had to basically live the way the jury had, and avoid everything about the trial online until those verdicts were made public. People were getting a bit sus on that forum that these two previously prolific posters had basically disappeared, that that meant they had heard verdicts, and there led to much debate over whether or not partial verdicts were a thing (turns out, they are!).

I can't link to that forum (one of the ones you mention) so you just have to take this as a IMO JMO MOO etc.

ETA also just my own opinion, but I think that when you have physically sat in court and been instructed by a real judge that you MUST not tell ANYONE, that holds weight that you can't imagine until you hear it directed at you.

 

[Moll]

Dr A, who is married, told the court he had been the subject of unrequited affection from Letby and said his wife had also been targeted by her on social media.

He denied being in a relationship with the nurse, despite the court hearing they had spent hours messaging one another late at night and had even taken a trip to London together.

It was the prosecution’s claim that she had attacked babies because she enjoyed the drama of being in a crisis situation with him.

He said he had suffered from severe anxiety for four years and believed he would struggle to give clear and accurate answers in court if his true identity was revealed.

Rare anonymity orders on Lucy Letby witnesses 'will have chilling effect on future cases'

Highly unusual reporting restrictions were imposed despite victims and families being widely named when the nurse was first charged

www.telegraph.co.uk

Not quite unrequited , seeing as he was messaging her constantly and meeting up with her! I wonder what he means when he says she ‘targeted’ his wife on social media.

Thank you for that link, it's an extremely interesting article, although as it's behind a paywall I had to sign up to 'four free months' to get it, and hope I'll remember to cancel it!

There are a number of points I hadn't realised before, such as the fact that a different judge (Mrs Justice Steyn) made the anonymity orders. The babies' names had been used in the magistrates' court and were legitimately reported then, not leaked by anyone in the press, apparently.

 

[iamshadow21]

"Inside the sprawling investigation

When a brown envelope landed on Detective Superintendent Paul Hughes' desk, back in May 2017, he never imagined that, more than six years later, it would lead to the conviction of Britain's most prolific child serial killer."

Inside the sprawling Lucy Letby investigation

When a brown envelope landed on Detective Superintendent Paul Hughes' desk, back in May 2017, he never imagined that it would lead to the conviction of Britain's most prolific child serial killer.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I am not generally about the DM as a source, but that article was really good, gave a really good feel for how we got from that first report to police, to Operation Hummingbird, to the arrests, to the trial, to today. The fact that each case was worked alone by individual detectives for a good while before they all came together was really interesting. It meant they were working each case on its own merits before the group as a whole identified patterns. Really smart.

MOO

 

[CS2C]

Unrequited? Yea right .. his wife can't be that blind now surely

She must have a labrador and a white stick

 

[Honeybirdette]

They were not closed. On another forum there were a couple of posters who had been in court and heard those partial verdicts. They had to basically live the way the jury had, and avoid everything about the trial online until those verdicts were made public. People were getting a bit sus on that forum that these two previously prolific posters had basically disappeared, that that meant they had heard verdicts, and there led to much debate over whether or not partial verdicts were a thing (turns out, they are!).

I can't link to that forum (one of the ones you mention) so you just have to take this as a IMO JMO MOO etc.

ETA also just my own opinion, but I think that when you have physically sat in court and been instructed by a real judge that you MUST not tell ANYONE, that holds weight that you can't imagine until you hear it directed at you.

Ah! Thank you for posting this.
I think I know the forum you mean. I’m not as active on there as it moves so fast but I think I know the two posters you mean . Now that makes a lot of sense

I know it’s not allowed either but someone on another forum did give dr chocs name out, and it meant we were all able to sleuth him online so I was just shocked how the partial verdicts managed to stay secret! thankfully nothing was leaked anyway and no mistrials happened !

 

[Sundial]

It does seem that Tony was quite 'out of touch'
in the download link he was quoted as saying

"In February 2016 there was a comprehensive CQC inspection at the hospital, including paediatrics and neonates. I am not aware that the consultants escalated any concerns with the CQC inspection team; nothing was reported to me at the time, or in any post-inspection feedback or report."

Revealed: How trust execs resisted concerns over Letby

Trust bosses questioned the integrity of doctors who first raised concerns about a nurse who has now been convicted of murdering seven babies, and forced the medics to apologise to her, an HSJ investigation has established.

www.hsj.co.uk

However, Eraine Powell was involved in this review together with Dr breary and LL's presence was identified as a problem. So
This can only mean that Eraine Powell either did not escalate to Tony Chambers, or she escalated via the medical director who did not relay to Tony, or Tony is not being honest about what he knew.

Senior hospital executive ignored warnings about killer Lucy Letby

Ian Harvey, medical director he claims that he was was pushing for more action.

“As medical director, I was determined to keep the baby unit safe and support our staff. I wanted the reviews and investigations carried out, so that we could tell the parents what had happened to their children. I believe there should be an inquiry that looks at all events leading up to this trial and I will help it in whatever way I can.”

Revealed: How trust execs resisted concerns over Letby

Where does the buck stop? Sounds to me like there was a gang of four, and that gang of four was at the top and Letby could have even been in with the top crowd.

This is interesting because on the panaroma documentary last night; there was an email produced from management (I can’t recall who or if it was actually mentioned in the documentary), which said in the email: “action was being taken” (that the police had been notified). And the reporter of the programme highlighted at that point the police hadn’t even been involved. Management LIED to the consultants raising these concerns, claiming action had been taken, to basically get them to keep quiet. It really is absolutely outrageous the tactics and what management did to these doctors to silence them.

 

[minusfour]

How is everyone today? I was so relieved that the jury reached a verdict, and that LL was convicted. Today I just feel so sad..

 

[iamshadow21]

There was also the mention of her carrying 2 blankets/ a purple and pink one (and a soft squishy fiddly thing in her hand?) into the hearing too. The hand item I could maybe understand…and I know someone mentioned this yesterday too and I agree, the blankets? Is a little strange for a 30 something year old to be carrying around with her. I was thinking back to when the need broke yesterday of the mum who held a toy rabbit to her face and wept as the verdict was given; I imagine some of these parents there with little soft toys and memories sitting throughout the hearing with these little mementos of loss..but for the accused to be wondering in/out of her hearing carrying blankets (similar to the parents with soft toys), IMO is really very odd.

My personal opinion as an autistic/ADHD person with C-PTSD... I think what she had would probably be a fidget toy and a lap blanket that is either weighted or made from a fabric she finds soothing. It's basic sensory items for someone with a reported trauma disorder. Whether she actually needs them or just had them as props for show, there's no way of telling, but there's nothing inherently sinister in someone with a PTSD dx having such items in a stressful situation.

MOO

 

[esther43]

This is interesting because on the panaroma documentary last night; there was an email produced from management (I can’t recall who or if it was actually mentioned in the documentary), which said in the email: “action was being taken” (that the police had been notified). And the reporter of the programme highlighted at that point the police hadn’t even been involved. Management LIED to the consultants raising these concerns, claiming action had been taken, to basically get them to keep quiet. It really is absolutely outrageous the tactics and what management did to these doctors to silence them.

True, though 'action has been taken' doesn't necessarily imply that the police had been called.
It really sounds like they were pulling rank and saying 'none of your business' 'butt out' kind of thing. 'all emails shall cease forthwith'

 

[CS2C]

I "imagine" him to be a ..plain geeky middle age man who had been flattered and had his ego stroked after 20 years of marriage and possibly little female attention in his life ...JMO

You are spot on there actually.

 

[JosieJo]

You are spot on there actually.

Yes

 

[iamshadow21]

How is everyone today? I was so relieved that the jury reached a verdict, and that LL was convicted. Today I just feel so sad..

After the Gannon verdict, once the sentencing happened, I couldn't stop crying for a while. I've heard a couple of verdicts since then, and it hasn't been quite as intense, but pretty similar feelings.

It is the right thing that there is a trial and a verdict, but when it all comes down to it, it doesn't bring a person back to life, and it doesn't undo the hurt to the families, and the jury has to carry the burden of that trial with them forever. There's nothing celebratory about any of that.

All I think every time is, none of this had to happen. Every single person touched by this could have had a life with none of this pain, if the events that set this all in motion had never happened, had people made other choices. It's all so unnecessary, and for what? What a waste.

MOO

 

[Anxala]

Dr A, who is married, told the court he had been the subject of unrequited affection from Letby and said his wife had also been targeted by her on social media.

He denied being in a relationship with the nurse, despite the court hearing they had spent hours messaging one another late at night and had even taken a trip to London together.

It was the prosecution’s claim that she had attacked babies because she enjoyed the drama of being in a crisis situation with him.

He said he had suffered from severe anxiety for four years and believed he would struggle to give clear and accurate answers in court if his true identity was revealed.

Rare anonymity orders on Lucy Letby witnesses 'will have chilling effect on future cases'

Highly unusual reporting restrictions were imposed despite victims and families being widely named when the nurse was first charged

www.telegraph.co.uk

Not quite unrequited , seeing as he was messaging her constantly and meeting up with her! I wonder what he means when he says she ‘targeted’ his wife on social media.

Personally I don't have a prob with his anonymity. Why should his wife and kids bear the brunt of his poor judgement and unprofessionalism? The 'unrequited' bit did made me laugh though but needs must when your opportunistic fling at work with whom you shared so much mutual ego-boosting turns out to be a serial killer. I can well believe he's suffered more than enough for his 'sins' over the past few years without adding public shaming to the mix.

Enough tragic victims here already, let's not make more.

LL and the CoCH Mgt at the time are the ones the focus should be on, the one who carried out these unbelievably barbaric acts and those utterly contemptible people who enabled her.

 

[Sundial]

My personal opinion as an autistic/ADHD person with C-PTSD... I think what she had would probably be a fidget toy and a lap blanket that is either weighted or made from a fabric she finds soothing. It's basic sensory items for someone with a reported trauma disorder. Whether she actually needs them or just had them as props for show, there's no way of telling, but there's nothing inherently sinister in someone with a PTSD dx having such items in a stressful situation.

MOO

For sure, she did remind me of an autistic person needing such items. However; then my thoughts are replaced with how well dr choc said she worked well under pressure and the “chaos” of resus etc, the parents distress after losing their baby she had messaged her friends about. Dr B even stated after the event with the triplets he suggested she had some time off and she had replied no, she was back in for her next shift Saturday (or words to that effect). He said he found that most unusual as the rest of the team were crumbling (on panaroma documentary) but LL was completely unphased. So hearing all that, that trauma and chaos and she was straight “back on it” as LL also claimed in her messages to her colleagues… she’s then here at the trial carrying blankets and fidget things. I Can’t figure that out.

 

[esther43]

There was also the mention of her carrying 2 blankets/ a purple and pink one (and a soft squishy fiddly thing in her hand?) into the hearing too. The hand item I could maybe understand…and I know someone mentioned this yesterday too and I agree, the blankets? Is a little strange for a 30 something year old to be carrying around with her. I was thinking back to when the news broke yesterday of the mum who held a toy rabbit to her face and wept as the verdict was given; I imagine some of these parents there with little soft toys and memories sitting throughout the hearing with these little mementos of loss..but for the accused to be wondering in/out of her hearing carrying blankets (similar to the parents with soft toys), IMO is really very odd.

EBM

It's pathetic is what it is! Bringing along 'accessories' to match the 'victim' appearance... Pleeeeeease! Jmo

 

[IDK]

Does anyone know if LL’s parents continued to show up in court after ll stopped going? Also do you think her parents will show up to the sentencing Monday and maybe read a statement? Just curious about the dynamics.

 

[CS2C]

For sure, she did remind me of an autistic person needing such items. However; then my thoughts are replaced with how well dr choc said she worked well under pressure and the “chaos” of resus etc, the parents distress after losing their baby she had messaged her friends about. Dr B even stated after the event with the triplets he suggested she had some time off and she had replied no, she was back in for her next shift Saturday (or words to that effect). He said he found that most unusual as the rest of the team were crumbling (on panaroma documentary) but LL was completely unphased. So hearing all that, that trauma and chaos and she was straight “back on it” as LL also claimed in her messages to her colleagues… she’s then here at the trial carrying blankets and fidget things. I Can’t figure that out.

It's all part of the act imo...The same as "I was arrested in my PJ's"
Anything to gain a bit of sympathy